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  #1  
Old 02-27-2016, 11:35 AM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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Default scam alert: fake psa cards from ebay seller "cardregistry"

Bob Evans.



i am good thru amex/paypal.

bought a 67 mantle 9 from this guy.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/cardregistry...72.m2749.l2754

typical re-sealment job.

i sent the card to psa and got the letter attached.

asked for a refund from seller w/i 48 hrs. said he couldn't.

but good thru amex/paypal.


however, interesting notes that others may be concerned about...

after conversing w/ seller afterwards, here are some more facts:

1. seller never had cards in hand. people paid him, "consignee" shipped.
2. he told me that he is in the midst of $150,000+ other fake cards sold.
3. i know he had a few other mantles and gem 10 rcs of: montana, rice and your typical marquee rookies.
4. they have removed the listing and pics, but this reseal job was scary good.


so might wanna pass this around or check your inventory to see if ya bought anything from this guy.

cant say for sure it was him or if he was just the beautiful idiot that took on a "consignment " w/o ever having the cards in his actual hands,

but just wanted to give everyone else a heads up that there's another 150K worth of fakes recently dumped into the market.


Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 11:58 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:31 PM
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Do you have a picture of the card? I'm curious to see if this was an older PSA case or even the newer PSA cases w/ new hologram flip are at risk.
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:33 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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i do. gimme a sec to find her...
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  #4  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:46 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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here is the scan i had to provide psa in an attempt to have the card removed from someone else's set....
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File Type: jpg fake mantle.jpg (74.3 KB, 1929 views)
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2016, 01:54 PM
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That does look "scary" good, as you said. I'm glad you got your money back.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2016, 01:55 PM
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Wow.

Last edited by Jdoggs; 02-27-2016 at 02:08 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:00 PM
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So this seller's attitude was basically yeah I know I sold you a bad card but tough luck?
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  #8  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:13 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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ehh. sorta, kinda, not really...

it was more like:

"omg, i have just sold $150K in fake cards, that i never held. what the hell was i thinking. i've already paid this guy, i got bigger fish to fry but please bear with me..."

so gave him 48hrs to refund. he said he couldn't, so i took care of it my way...

amex already credited.

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 02:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:14 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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was thinking about sending in the letter to get "psa/dna verified" though!

HAHA!!!
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:15 PM
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Why you ever sign up to be a middle man on eBay without handling the goods? That's asking for trouble.
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:18 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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that's exactly what i told him.

i honestly think and feel that this poor guy is the dupe!
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:20 PM
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Thanks for the heads up on this, Bob! Sucks that you had to go through this process.

What were the signs that tipped you off to it being a reseal, if you don't mind sharing? The scan shows almost no signs of frosting, so that's disheartening.

PSA's note indicated that the seal was "clearly violated". Is this true?

Finally, (sorry for all the questions ) was this the older style holder where you can feel the seam along the sides, or the newer style where the bottom portion fits into the top portion? Thanks!
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:31 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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no, it wasn't clearly visible.

i wish i woulda took a better scan of the entire holder...

i think i did and don't want to make any accusations just yet, BUT

to answer your question:

i tried to add it to my inventory on psacard.
other owner of the other mantle said he still had his card.
psa asked me to send it in*.

and this is the kicker:

since i couldn't log it in on psacard.com b/c someone else wouldn't release the cert
i created my own spec using the "add other inventory" tab.
i always do this when someone doesn't release a cert number simply because it let's me keep pertinent info.

well, the "1967 topps mantle psa 9" along w/ the front/back scans has vanished. again, i certainly hope they wouldn't and don't know for 100% certainty but i just hope they didn't go in to my inventory page and delete something....

* i would have sent her in regardless for a reholder. i do this w/ all cards over a certain threshold for protection. the other person not releasing the cert simply pushed it from being on the back burner so to speak...

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begsu1013 View Post
ehh. sorta, kinda, not really...

it was more like:

"omg, i have just sold $150K in fake cards, that i never held. what the hell was i thinking. i've already paid this guy, i got bigger fish to fry but please bear with me..."

so gave him 48hrs to refund. he said he couldn't, so i took care of it my way...

amex already credited.
Great attitude. Tough shit Bob, hope you work it out with your credit card company.
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2016, 02:55 PM
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Uh-Oh, I bought two PSA 10 HOF Football Rc's from him in Nov. Not a huge amount, about $400 total but do you recommend me sending them in?
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2016, 03:07 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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are they modern cards? seller did appear to be reputable prior to this dumb move.

go ahead and post scans, if ya want...but I think you might be good if they were in nov.

these fakes cards were posted around jan 7th.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2016, 03:08 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Great attitude. Tough shit Bob, hope you work it out with your credit card company.
yep, im good.

just another day.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2016, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksabet View Post
Uh-Oh, I bought two PSA 10 HOF Football Rc's from him in Nov. Not a huge amount, about $400 total but do you recommend me sending them in?
At that $$$ level you are probably fine, I think it's the Montanas and Rices and Youngs of the world where the issues are. Hopefully anyhow.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2016, 03:51 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begsu1013 View Post
no, it wasn't clearly visible.

i wish i woulda took a better scan of the entire holder...

i think i did and don't want to make any accusations just yet, BUT

to answer your question:

i tried to add it to my inventory on psacard.
other owner of the other mantle said he still had his card.
psa asked me to send it in*.

and this is the kicker:

since i couldn't log it in on psacard.com b/c someone else wouldn't release the cert
i created my own spec using the "add other inventory" tab.
i always do this when someone doesn't release a cert number simply because it let's me keep pertinent info.

well, the "1967 topps mantle psa 9" along w/ the front/back scans has vanished. again, i certainly hope they wouldn't and don't know for 100% certainty but i just hope they didn't go in to my inventory page and delete something....

* i would have sent her in regardless for a reholder. i do this w/ all cards over a certain threshold for protection. the other person not releasing the cert simply pushed it from being on the back burner so to speak...
I posted long ago that all the big cards should be on the registry so if you were going to buy a card an email would go out to the 'owner' so they could challenge it if they chose to be included on an email list

in your case the real owner just so happened to be on the registry and it worked out, if the card wasnt you likely woudnt of ever known for a least a very long time and long enough you may never of gotten your money back

everyone was worried about privacy concerns of doing my suggestion but you can see it saved you and again even if 40% of the real owners chose to be on a 'owner registry' ...thats 40% more fake mantles etc that can be discovered fast...
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:06 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
everyone was worried about privacy concerns of doing my suggestion but you can see it saved you and again even if 40% of the real owners chose to be on a 'owner registry' ...thats 40% more fake mantles etc that can be discovered fast...
seriously, dude?

i've never even read your post about whatever babble you decided to go on about.

in fact, i usually overlook anything you actually post.

(that's why i edited and put "NM" when i realized it was you looking for a 54 aaron 7 in your wtb thread)

but please do not try and take any credit that you saved me in any type of fashion.

i stick to my self set protocols and this card woulda been sent in for a reholder anyways.

i'm also thoroughly educated on my return parameters/time frames and the legalities involved to cover my own a$$.

i got this down to a science.

feel free to re-read the thread, but don't try to take any credit for some nonsense babble you posted god knows when.

shoo fly.

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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  #21  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:14 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begsu1013 View Post
seriously, dude?

i've never even read your post about whatever babble you decided to go on about.

in fact, i usually overlook anything you actually post.

(that's why i edited and put "NM" when i realized it was you looking for a 54 aaron 7 in your wtb thread)

but please do not try and take any credit that you saved me in any type of fashion.

i stick to my self set protocols and this card woulda been sent in for a reholder anyways.

i'm also thoroughly educated on my return parameters/time frames and the legalities involved to cover my own a$$.

i got this down to a science.

feel free to re-read the thread, but don't try to take any credit for some nonsense babble you posted god knows when.

shoo fly.
seriously dude? I not sure anyone will agree with the point of yours post...i didnt say anything against you yet you posted some wierd stuff...not sure what you mean about the Aaron as well....and also not sure what you mean that it doesn't matter when someone pointed out something..there was a past thread or two..one of them was a discussoin with Peter Spieth actually..

i was simply showing how it worked out for you and that a system could help could help the card community a large. I get that you are the master yet you still had the need to post something there....perhaps you were trying to do some good to the community..i not see what the problem is with my suggestion with was an attempt to help the card community which I made long ago and i just noted that it appeared to work for you.......no biggie go on with your attacking non-sense...... im sure you have lots of RC Aarons to sell now...maybe you should of continued to overlook my posts and done us both a favor....of course if you respond that thats one more post you arent overlooking which would than appear you havent overlooked squat....but please overlook in future..thanks

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-27-2016 at 04:20 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:14 PM
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Interesting info, Bob. Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:15 PM
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cardregistry (2419)

Last 12 months:

1,032 positive
0 neutral
0 negative

I don't post this to challenge your story, I believe you, I am just baffled that this seller doesn't have any negative feedback.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:48 PM
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Did PSA crack the card of the holder before they sent it back?
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:51 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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i checked him out previous to the purchase as well.

which is why i believe him when he said the cards were "consignments" after the fact.

this was purchased on jan 7.

but between the time that i actually got the card.

attempted to add the card to the registry.

wait the 3 days before i can request it be removed via email w/ a scan to psa.

wait their 2 days process to do the removal

find out that there is an issue from psa

converse back and forth

wait for a pre-paid label from them

mail the thing.

wait for it to get logged. (logged in feb 9th btw)

usually only takes 5 biz days to get things like this cleared up,

so this one musta been good bc it took close to 15 biz days and several wtf phone calls.

and just got the results this thurs...


throw all of the above in w/ a couple of holidays and we are unfortunately around 45 days to get a verifiable answer. i am probably ultimately the first to catch him/them on this round of fakes.

also, once i notified ebay that it was a fake i was unable to leave any feedback whatsoever.

still in disbelief about ebays stance on this and that they would remove the listing all together and not allow me to leave feedback.
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File Type: jpg mantlefake.jpg (19.3 KB, 963 views)

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2016, 04:56 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
Did PSA crack the card of the holder before they sent it back?
yep.

cracked it, confiscated the holder and flip.

had them send the card to him.
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:03 PM
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Scary stuff. Makes you wonder how many others are floating around in collections, not just the 150k in cards from this guy.

So was the card real, just not quite a 9?
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:04 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
i not see what the problem is with my suggestion with was an attempt to help the card community which I made long ago
exactly.

i am no master. there is always more room to learn.

but to answer what i think was an attempt at a question,

my sole reason to post this was to notify others of a serious and recent issue.

this otherwise flawless seller had some serious "cardboard" "consigned" which ultimately is fake and was used to run a $150K scheme in a matter of a month.

if this happened to someone else, i certainly would appreciate a heads up as well. i think anybody would.

in fact, i'd feel worse if i didn't post anything about it actually.

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
Scary stuff. Makes you wonder how many others are floating around in collections, not just the 150k in cards from this guy.

So was the card real, just not quite a 9?
card was 100% real. just "altered".

all they would give me.

take a solid 7, doctor her up a lil bit.

slip her into a very nicely tampered psa holder

insert a fake* flip

find a somewhat reliable ebay seller to take the consignment

and make $4K.


* the flip looked scary good as well. font was spot on. i did the flashlight test (no overlabel) and redlaser'd the barcode and it spit out the right cert number as well.

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 05:13 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:29 PM
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Somewhere south of the border, someone is laughing his butt off, all the way to the bank.
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  #31  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:34 PM
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i have heard that as well. mexico, correct?
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  #32  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:38 PM
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i have heard that as well. mexico, correct?
Si.
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:41 PM
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dios mio!
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:43 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begsu1013 View Post
exactly.

i am no master. there is always more room to learn.

but to answer what i think was an attempt at a question,

my sole reason to post this was to notify others of a serious and recent issue.

this otherwise flawless seller had some serious "cardboard" "consigned" which ultimately is fake and was used to run a $150K scheme in a matter of a month.

if this happened to someone else, i certainly would appreciate a heads up as well. i think anybody would.

in fact, i'd feel worse if i didn't post anything about it actually.

right and my idea would help the card community..the way you found out about the fake would be the exact same way others could be helped by my idea as it just happened in practice with you but right now its very limited....just putting it out there so others can be helped...

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-27-2016 at 05:43 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:43 PM
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It was only a matter of time before these professional thieves took notice of the surging card prices to make the counterfeit process worthwhile. Very scary. If I was PSA I would institute a team to tackle this issue before it damages their credibility and hurts the hobby irreparably.
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:45 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan View Post
It was only a matter of time before these professional thieves took notice of the surging card prices to make the counterfeit process worthwhile. Very scary. If I was PSA I would institute a team to tackle this issue before it damages their credibility and hurts the hobby irreparably.
i still waiting for the half grade fake...when one of those shows up we know the floodgates have opened....and i wish PSA would implement an 'owner registry' (being informed if someone has a dup cert number out there without yourself building a card registry) as stated before.....if anyone else has ideas for PSA as AJjohnsonsox fan wants PSA to tackle the issue im sure PSA is all ears as well

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-27-2016 at 05:47 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
i still waiting for the half grade fake...when one of those shows up we know the floodgates have opened....and i wish PSA would implement an 'owner registry' (being informed if someone has a dup cert number out there without yourself building a card registry) as stated before.....if anyone else has ideas for PSA as AJjohnsonsox fan wants PSA to tackle the issue im sure PSA is all ears as well
With a bad Mantle 8 having been pulled from a recent auction in a new holder with the hologram, they may have opened already.
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:52 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
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With a bad Mantle 8 having been pulled from a recent auction in a new holder with the hologram, they may have opened already.
we know for sure that Mantle was bad? I never heard the outcome of that but i guess if its not relisted than that answers that......
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan View Post
It was only a matter of time before these professional thieves took notice of the surging card prices to make the counterfeit process worthwhile. Very scary. If I was PSA I would institute a team to tackle this issue before it damages their credibility and hurts the hobby irreparably.
This happened over a dozen years ago...http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=63017. There are various versions of the what took place. PSA has their version of course but the resealing of holders is nothing new. Only thing about this latest run, most of which are tied to coming out of Mexico, is that it is much more high profile cards.
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
we know for sure that Mantle was bad? I never heard the outcome of that but i guess if its not relisted than that answers that......
Yeah it was bad. Someone who had the real one apparently sounded the alarm.
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  #41  
Old 02-27-2016, 06:03 PM
botn botn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
we know for sure that Mantle was bad? I never heard the outcome of that but i guess if its not relisted than that answers that......
I was told the Mantle was real just altered. The holder was resealed and it is PSA's stance is that it was very obvious. I am not sure that part is 100% accurate though or simply PSA trying to cover up their that their new holder can be opened and resealed. That card is linked to the Mexico operation.
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  #42  
Old 02-27-2016, 06:08 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yeah it was bad. Someone who had the real one apparently sounded the alarm.
would of been real easy if they could of been contacted on a owner registry before an auction house got duped....was the mantle fake or just a lower grade..i wonder how much the owner of the fake psa 8 mantle paid for the card or when he bought it from craigslist.... PSA seems to always say the tampering of the holder looks obvious...but not obvious to me when i see pictures

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-27-2016 at 06:10 PM.
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  #43  
Old 02-27-2016, 06:55 PM
vtgmsc vtgmsc is offline
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Default '61 Marichal....

He has a supposed PSA 10 Marichal Rookie and the bottom right hand corner is fuzzy!?!?!?!?!?!?

Wow!!!! Stay far away!

Peace, Mike

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-TOPPS-J...4AAOSwqrtWmVXt


s-l1600.jpg

Last edited by vtgmsc; 02-27-2016 at 06:55 PM.
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  #44  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:12 PM
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iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
I was told the Mantle was real just altered. The holder was resealed and it is PSA's stance is that it was very obvious. I am not sure that part is 100% accurate though or simply PSA trying to cover up their that their new holder can be opened and resealed. That card is linked to the Mexico operation.
Does it have to be a situation where their holder has been opened and resealed. What if someone has been able to duplicate the holder. They then buy some low value cards in new psa holders to get a hold of the new flips with holograms and create new fake flips using the holograms that have been skinned from the real flips on the cheap cards. They then take their PSA substituted holders, put in a lower grade star card with the fabricated flip. Is that possible/probable? Does PSA make the holders on site or do they buy them from suppliers?
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  #45  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:13 PM
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iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtgmsc View Post
He has a supposed PSA 10 Marichal Rookie and the bottom right hand corner is fuzzy!?!?!?!?!?!?

Wow!!!! Stay far away!

Peace, Mike

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-TOPPS-J...4AAOSwqrtWmVXt


Attachment 222738
That hologram looks strange.
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  #46  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:29 PM
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brass_rat brass_rat is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
Does PSA make the holders on site or do they buy them from suppliers?
The following is from the Collectors Universe annual report :

http://investors.collectors.com/secf...32&CIK=1089143

"Supplies

In order to obtain volume discounts through June 30, 2015, we have chosen to purchase substantially all of the injection-molded plastic parts for our clear plastic holders principally from two suppliers. We have chosen to order our most critical high-volume plastic part from both of these suppliers. We choose one or the other of these suppliers to manufacture other less critical parts. We typically concentrate the purchase of holders through one supplier when developing new holders. There are numerous suppliers for these parts, and we believe that, if necessary, we could obtain those parts from other suppliers without incurring significant costs. However, if it became necessary for us to obtain any parts from another supplier, we might have to arrange for the fabrication of a die for the new supplier. Fabrication of high-value precision dies can be a lengthy process. Although we do not have back-up dies for some of our high-value volume injection-molded parts, we own the dies used to manufacture the parts, and we believe the inventory of parts we maintain is sufficient to give us the time to have another supplier build the parts, should the need to do so arise or should we decide to use another supplier for certain parts."
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  #47  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:33 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
Bob Ev@ns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
Does it have to be a situation where their holder has been opened and resealed. What if someone has been able to duplicate the holder. They then buy some low value cards in new psa holders to get a hold of the new flips with holograms and create new fake flips using the holograms that have been skinned from the real flips on the cheap cards. They then take their PSA substituted holders, put in a lower grade star card with the fabricated flip. Is that possible/probable? Does PSA make the holders on site or do they buy them from suppliers?
i would imagine you could book a flight to china w/ a holder in hand and have multiple manufacturers set up w/in minutes....flips too.

ship them to mexico. grab a sonic welder, start buying up cards & voilà!

$150k in a month!
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  #48  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:40 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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and i think the marichal is real. it has his carpet background, so that just may be psa! ; )

here is a list of items sold w/ highest prices first.

remember, this guy didn't have them "in hand"....

you will see that the first couple all have the "black background" vs his carpet background

my mantle is removed from the list, i know there was an 86 rice 10 and jeter sp 10 that seem to have disappeared from the sold list

but these are some biggies and there are probably a few more that were done direct....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=...gistry&_sop=16

Last edited by begsu1013; 02-27-2016 at 07:45 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:44 PM
Beastmode Beastmode is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begsu1013 View Post
i would imagine you could book a flight to china w/ a holder in hand and have multiple manufacturers set up w/in minutes....flips too.

ship them to mexico. grab a sonic welder, start buying up cards & voilà!

$150k in a month!
I have doubts about the "I'm just a consigner" excuse. I know the seller's history looks good, but we've seen recently what greed can do to the best of them.

More importantly, consigners will soon have some liability for fraudulent auctions, and it's long overdue. Can't play the dumb-card much longer.

Otherwise, why not open an auction house, sell all of your fraudulent cards, and then say say they were someone else's cards. Oh wait, that's already been done.
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  #50  
Old 02-27-2016, 07:51 PM
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DeanH3 DeanH3 is online now
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Thanks for letting us know about this this Bob. Man, these fake holders send a chill down my spine. I only know Bob from his postings here and on the CU boards, but I'm confident that he's seen enough PSA holders that if this one could have passed the eye test to him initially, these con artists are mighty sophisticated.
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