NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #351  
Old 03-29-2014, 01:04 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I will sum up this thread from my view:

1.Most board members don't mind soaking a card or cleaning it with water.
2.Most board members mind it being cleaned with anything else.
3.Almost all board members don't approve of creases or wrinkles being removed.


As for me.....still on the fence but would generally fall into the categories above.
4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #352  
Old 03-29-2014, 01:08 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
John
J0hn McD@niel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,686
Default

Or a simple thought if you soak a card off a page with something you would let your kids drink. Or if you are removing stains with something you would rush your kid to the emergency room for drinking. Which do you think raises more eyebrows among collectors.

Nobody is arguing lots of cards got soaked off pages over the years from albums etc. with water. I think most are saying what Ryan and I have said water doesn't remove major stains and whiten cards to supernatural states.....that's using something else.

Having healthy breakfast is good for athletes might even give them an edge, however having a breakfast and a shot of steroids isn't the same thing IMO. I know....I know as long as you can't tell and enjoy the game what does it matter that the players are juiced as long as you can't tell.

John
Reply With Quote
  #353  
Old 03-29-2014, 01:25 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
D@v!d J@m3s
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 5,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.
For the record, and let me be very clear, if I soaked a card and honestly remembered it at the time of sale, I would certainly disclose it. My sales speak for themselves...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+topps+schmidt

However, I don't have a problem with other sellers not disclosing it. I guess the reason for that is because I see nothing wrong with soaking. So, I'm not saying it's right for me, I'm just saying I don't have a problem with other sellers not doing it. In other words, if I were buying a card, it would make absolutely no difference to me at all fi the seller told me that it was previously soaked or not. It would not influence my buying decision.
Reply With Quote
  #354  
Old 03-29-2014, 03:32 PM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 5,948
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Does Frank's Fine Auctions accept consignments? I have an old lever action Winchester that I would like to sell. It's pre-'64, so it's highly collectible. The gun is in pristine condition having never been cleaned. That's right, no solvent has ever touched the bore. Lots of rust and corrosion included to lend credibility.
FFA would be happy to accept your consignment, David, and would proudly offer you the highest consignment rate in the industry. Remember our guarantee that if you can find a higher consignment rate anywhere, we will match it.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #355  
Old 03-29-2014, 04:21 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,291
Default

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.

Last edited by barrysloate; 03-29-2014 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #356  
Old 03-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,040
Default

The first rule about the process...


...you dont talk about the process
__________________
SIGNED 1952 Topps
381/407


"Trolling Ebay right now"
Reply With Quote
  #357  
Old 03-29-2014, 05:11 PM
chernieto's Avatar
chernieto chernieto is offline
Pau.l C
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on tv.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.
exactly !!
Reply With Quote
  #358  
Old 03-29-2014, 07:41 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 6,215
Default Collecting

I have been collecting cards since 1957. I have never soaked or cleaned a card myself. I would be terrible at either. I have no idea if I have soaked or cleaned cards in my collection....and I do not care. It is just a hobby for fun to me. If it was an investment or business for me, I guess I would worry about this stuff. Glad it is not. When I am dead someone else can keep, sell, or burn my cards, I do not care. I just enjoy them now.
Reply With Quote
  #359  
Old 03-29-2014, 08:03 PM
D.P.Johnson's Avatar
D.P.Johnson D.P.Johnson is offline
D@niel.P@trick.Johnson
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.
Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.
Reply With Quote
  #360  
Old 03-29-2014, 08:05 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
D@v!d J@m3s
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 5,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.
Dan, he was joking. I thought it was pretty funny.
Reply With Quote
  #361  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:03 PM
williamcohon williamcohon is offline
Bill Cohon
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 106
Default

In the violin world, an old instrument with a crack needs to be repaired. With a high quality repair, the value is retained. Revarnishing, however, detracts from the value.

In the art world, cleaning, flattening, even re-weaving are par of a curator's aegis.

It seems arbitrary to me, and just a bit peculiar, that in the card world there is such an insistence on the perpetuation of earlier damage, especially when methods exist that can effectively repair it.

I have never soaked a card, but it wouldn't bother me to find out that I own some that have had a bath.
Reply With Quote
  #362  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:11 PM
ElCabron's Avatar
ElCabron ElCabron is offline
Ryan Christoff
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.
This is awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #363  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:14 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamcohon View Post
In the violin world, an old instrument with a crack needs to be repaired. With a high quality repair, the value is retained. Revarnishing, however, detracts from the value.

In the art world, cleaning, flattening, even re-weaving are par of a curator's aegis.

It seems arbitrary to me, and just a bit peculiar, that in the card world there is such an insistence on the perpetuation of earlier damage, especially when methods exist that can effectively repair it.

I have never soaked a card, but it wouldn't bother me to find out that I own some that have had a bath.
As has been stated, the reason for this is that for the most part baseball cards were produced in quantity and therefore relative condition is an important determinant of value. Restoration artificially manipulates relative condition.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #364  
Old 03-29-2014, 10:57 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,212
Default

First I will state I have never had the services of Mr Towle for any cards I have owned but have sent some people that way to have cards removed from scrapbooks and ect. I have also had many transactions with Dick and got several cards in my collection I have had for yrs from him. All were bought with nothing done to them per our conversations and there are several other guys I have spoke with that say the same. I do believe Dick only does cards sent to him so the guy to be upset with is the one that don't disclose that. Don't hate the man for making some extra scratch. I do not condone altering in any way but the removal of a stain or extra paper is ok as long as your not manipulating or adding to for the process to be completed. Look at how many cards have been soaked and pressed or something else. We probably all own an altered card of some type. Especially if you own a certain grading companies slabbed card. I know we all don't agree but that's my opinion about it.
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009

KCCO
Reply With Quote
  #365  
Old 03-30-2014, 05:50 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Dan, he was joking. I thought it was pretty funny.
Thanks David. It was indeed a joke.
Reply With Quote
  #366  
Old 03-30-2014, 09:07 AM
teetwoohsix's Avatar
teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
Clayton
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 2,461
Default

I never thought I would see the day that so many people would make an argument that cleaning a card with chemicals is justifiable on Net54.

Put me in the "no thank you" camp on this one.

Sincerely, Clayton
Reply With Quote
  #367  
Old 03-30-2014, 12:18 PM
williamcohon williamcohon is offline
Bill Cohon
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
As has been stated, the reason for this is that for the most part baseball cards were produced in quantity and therefore relative condition is an important determinant of value. Restoration artificially manipulates relative condition.
I have never sold a card, and have no intention to do so. So money plays a limited role in the value of my cards, and that role decreases the farther I get from the point of sale. What matters is aesthetics, history, nostalgia, and stuff like that.

If my favorite shirt gets wrinkled, I iron it. If I'm playing my Martin guitar for my granddaughter, and she runs over and touches it with spaghetti-sauce hands, I'll clean it. If my sports car gets a dent, I take it to a great body shop. To me, the shirt, the guitar, and the car are better - worth more - for the attention.

As for artificial manipulation, it all depends on how you define words and where you draw lines. For me, removing glue or wrinkles (or spaghetti sauce or dents), is not intrinsically more artificial than applying them in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #368  
Old 03-30-2014, 02:37 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,542
Default

.........

Have a happy chemically-clean Sunday

Last edited by Runscott; 03-30-2014 at 04:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #369  
Old 03-31-2014, 06:26 PM
danmckee danmckee is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards View Post
What is chat 54?
He meant the Area51 chat board.

Seriously I have worked with Dick for years and HIGHLY recommend him and his son!

Thanks guys

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #370  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:43 PM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,260
Default

Bump
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items
Reply With Quote
  #371  
Old 02-20-2017, 10:08 AM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamcohon View Post
I have never sold a card, and have no intention to do so. So money plays a limited role in the value of my cards, and that role decreases the farther I get from the point of sale. What matters is aesthetics, history, nostalgia, and stuff like that.

If my favorite shirt gets wrinkled, I iron it. If I'm playing my Martin guitar for my granddaughter, and she runs over and touches it with spaghetti-sauce hands, I'll clean it. If my sports car gets a dent, I take it to a great body shop. To me, the shirt, the guitar, and the car are better - worth more - for the attention.

As for artificial manipulation, it all depends on how you define words and where you draw lines. For me, removing glue or wrinkles (or spaghetti sauce or dents), is not intrinsically more artificial than applying them in the first place.
This is deep, Bill.

Glad to see you posting!
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
  #372  
Old 02-20-2017, 10:46 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,143
Default

His post was from 2014.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #373  
Old 02-20-2017, 11:23 AM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
His post was from 2014.
So it is. Hahahaha.
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
  #374  
Old 02-20-2017, 02:06 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conor912 View Post
This is deep, Bill.

Glad to see you posting!
Agreed!! 100%. Unfortunately, maybe card collectors dont see it that way. And maybe people are mistaken.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can this stain be removed? HOF Auto Rookies Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 03-28-2013 02:18 PM
Stain or Transfer Bwstew Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 12-11-2012 05:21 PM
33 Goudey gum stain? mighty bombjack Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 10-12-2011 09:43 PM
Letters in the stain Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 05-12-2008 10:39 AM
Name that stain! (c'mon - it's FREE!) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 08-25-2004 01:38 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


ebay GSB