Who are the 10 most important collectors in hobby history

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Bruce started a similar thread back about 2 years ago.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ial+collectors

Actually there was one last year even closer on topic.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=wharton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Actually there was one last year even closer on topic.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=wharton

At least it's something to discuss and I don't think 1 yr is too long to talk about something again. There can always be new points made. At least he started a good thread. regards

[FUBAR]

i was hoping to make the list this year, but once again, i was over looked!

I must be #101...

I personally don't think Halper should be one the list any longer, with all the recent findings.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

At least it's something to discuss and I don't think 1 yr is too long to talk about something again. There can always be new points made. At least he started a good thread. regards

Oh I agree I was only pointing it out as a cross reference not as criticism.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Bruce started a similar thread back about 2 years ago.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ial+collectors

Alan,

That wasn't Bruce. That was that damn Archive fellow!

[jeffmohler]

I came from a stamp and coin background prior to getting into baseball cards about five years ago. In those fields there has been a great deal of scholarly research done over the years. To me, the card hobby is just in its infancy compared to stamps and coins. In order for it to mature we need to see more research, books written and hobby associations formed. We should have organizations like the American Stamp Dealers Association, Society of Philatelic Americans, the American Numismatic Association and others. Why we don't have exhibitions of collections, research papers presented and conferences at the National puzzles me.

To address the topic at hand, I would nominate Lew Lipset for his Encyclopedia, Scot Reader and Ted Zanadakis for their ground-breaking work on T206 and the guys that put the Old Judge book together. This is the kind of research that will eventually bring order and growth to the hobby.

Dear Critics

Our list (s) of the most important collectors in the history of the hobby was focused on the plethora of people whose involvement shaped the hobby.

It is clear that a number of you have no idea who certain collectors are/were and what they contributed.
For example ,one of the people on our list wrote a series of important articles about the Texas Tommy series,
and accumulated more than 45 examples. We, of course, are still in contact, but would not reveal their name.

Other collectors brought interest to the importance of grading cards and essentially enabled the creation of a billion dollar business.

To show you how far things have come in a 1956 Hobby Publication which we have there is a cover story
on a young junior banker whose "$1000 collection" was considered the most valuable in the baseball card hobby.
The article notes that the junior lending officer is the only person in the country to have a complete set of the
"ultra rare Delong gum cards"

Said legendary collector, now deceased, sent us his entire 45-year collection of hobby publications
along with a note of gratitude for our research efforts, and willingness to trade with him.

Many of the "unknown" collectors referenced by our "misguided, uneducated
critics" were friends of the aforementioned legendary collector. In turn they worked
with Egan and other pioneers in identifying players, sets and provenance of various cards and sets.

For those of you who are not true students of hobby history, said collector
was our friend, the late Lionel Carter.

As Always,

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

The country's leading buyer of high grade ultra rare baseball cards and memorabilia (no bats, autographs, uniforms equipment etc.)

[GoSoxBoSox]

Really classy. You can't take criticism or challenges so you belittle people.

For the record your so-called history lesson didn't teach anything other than that you claim to be friends with people that actually have contributed something. Well, there is no prize given to the beauty queen's best friend so I guess you are also one of us non-contributing little people in the hobby.

BTW, we all know about Egan, Carter and many other pioneers. They contributed, yes. You are not Merlin for knowing that. In fact, all of what you just said about Lionel Carter was in the article written about Mr. Carter when his collection was auctioned.

We didn't call anyone on the list you posted "unknown" as you accuse. We challenged that some of them were bigtime contributors to the hobby. Anybody can go down the list you posted and make you look foolish for professing some of those people actually "shaped the hobby". We don't because those people don't deserve to be called out for something so foolish. I'm sure they are all very nice people who could care less about such trivial lists.

Please grow-up.

[Wite3]

I know he never posts and I know he likes it private but a certain broadcaster must be included on the list. He often published articles and owns one of the best collections in the hobby.

I think the list should also include Beckett as a contributor and collector.

Bob Lemke needs to be mentioned as well. A wonderful contributor to the hobby and collector of knowledge more than cards. (And a damn fine card artist lately too).

Just a few I think needed to be mentioned (if they haven't already).

Joshua

[ElCabron]

Dave Kohler
Bill Mastro
Doug Allen
J.P. Cohen
Alan Rosen
Mark Rucker
Alan Hager
Sergio Delgado
Hal Lewis
Marshall Barkman

-Ryan

[benchod]

Ryan,
What a great list. I'm shocked Mr Mint wasn't mentioned before.

In all seriousness I've learned the most about this hobby I love not from the "big names " on any list but from the people who share their knowledge on these message boards as well as the people who take the time to write the great articles in Old Cardboard. And of course Lipset for the "Encylopedia".

[Orioles1954]

Wasn't Hal Lewis a decent guy? For the record, while I appreciate hobby history, the only collection that matters to me is my own.

[calvindog]

Hal Lewis wasn't just a decent guy--he was a great guy.

[Orioles1954]

I remember Hal Lewis lost a lot in real estate along with a huge chunk of his collection. However, never remember him being remembered as a shady fellow?

[jcmtiger]

Noicebringer, I was happy to see Bill Mastro in your list. There has been a lot of negative feedback about Bill lately, but he has a great collection. Also I know of 2 collectors who are not going public, that have great collections, possibly in the top ten.

Joe

In life and in war, when one is attacked one has the right, in fact, the obligation to respond.

To our knowledge, there was not a single person on our list of
35 who did not make a major contribution to shaping the hobby. There were a select few names that we failed to note, and we acknowledged
those collectors in subsequent posts.

A collector who spent $5 or 10 million on cards has certainly made a major contribution by raising awareness of rare items and by attracting others to the hobby, and often by attracting the press.

We are afraid it is you who needs to grow up. Remember in the competition for the very best in life there are only two classes of people: winners and losers.

So little boy, while you keep whining..we'll keep adding to America's Toughest Want List


Bruce Dorskind
America's Foremost Collector of Rare High Grade
Baseball Cards and Memorabilia

If you extraordinary items to sell please write
in confidence to bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Thank you and Happy Labor Day

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Tom- Bruce refers to himself in the first person plural. When he says "we" he means "I."

Really? I always assumed he was talking about his wife or significant other.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

Really? I always assumed he was talking about his wife or significant other.

Not so much.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by jeffmohler

To address the topic at hand, I would nominate Lew Lipset for his Encyclopedia, Scot Reader and Ted Zanadakis for their ground-breaking work on T206 and the guys that put the Old Judge book together. This is the kind of research that will eventually bring order and growth to the hobby.

I second that! I would also add that any list that includes Jim Beckett should also include Denny Eckes; in fact they should be referenced as a tandem I feel.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Again with the name calling. Boring.

Nice catch on Hal Lewis as a collector, guys. I'm not sure how he slipped by? Same with James Beckett and Bob Lemke as contributors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I infer the original reference to Hal was sarcastic, but he did generate a lot of interest and debate about the definition of a rookie card, and by extension the definition of a card in general.

[Leon]

The original question only asked for 10 people. That is quite a small number for the last 75 yrs, or so, of collecting. I gave my 10 but certainly missed some names that could have been put in.

Bruce- I still don't think that just because someone spends 10 million on a collection that they should be nominated for the list. It's the people, dare I say, that give back and help collectors and the hobby, that I feel should be on the list. It would be fun to have a current 10 and a past 10 too. There are also names like Denardo, Young, Mitchell (Hi Stephen) and many more that could make the list. As I said, 10 is a small number. regards

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I infer the original reference to Hal was sarcastic, but he did generate a lot of interest and debate about the definition of a rookie card, and by extension the definition of a card in general.

I liked Hal. In Hal's time in the hobby he was very prolific and active. Some of his threads definitely generated huge interest on the board. He certainly helped define the rookie collecting era. The several times I spoke with him he was always very nice to me. It's a shame the personal issues happened and he got out. He was always a very enthusiastic and passionate collector when in his prime. regards

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Leon

I still don't think that just because someone spends 10 million on a collection that they should be nominated for the list.

You are 100% correct. This can't be just about money. If it is, I heard a rumor in another thread that the ex-Mrs. Dorskind may have a collection worth somewhere north of $2,000,000! Maybe we should add her to the list.

[barrysloate]

Agreed that just because someone has the ability to write a million dollar check doesn't make him a great collector. To make the list, one has to be a lot more well rounded than that. I've always admired the collector who maybe didn't have a lot of money to spend but was resourceful and knowledgeable, and was still able to amass a great collection by working hard and using every skill he could. That was always my definition of a great collector.

[FrankWakefield]

Well this is a thought-provoking thread.

Who are the 10 most important collectors in hobby history.

For me, the 'are' and the 'history' have me leaning in differing directions on this. I think what it means (not necessarily what was intended) is that in the history of our hobby (baseball card collecting is inferred) who are the 10 most important collectors. I agree with those who make the distinction between being important to the hobby and having a great collection. So this is about important collectors, not the best collections.

Bruce, Leon and Jay have their top 10s... (Bruce's reflecting his correction)

1. Jefferson Burdick---- 1. Jefferson Burdick------------1.Wharton Tigar
2. Charles Bray---------2. Sir Edward Wharton Tigar---2.Jeff Burdick
3. Sir EW Tigar---------3. Buck Barker----------------3.Lew Lipset
4. Buck Barker----------4. Lionel Carter---------------4.Barry Halper
5. Lionel Carter---------5. Richard Egan---------------5.Richard Masson
6. Richard Egan---------6. Larry Fritsch---------------6.Frank Nagy
7. James Copeland------7. Frank Nagy-----------------7.Buck Barker
8. Frank Nagy----------8. Barry Halper----------------8.Keith Olbermann
9. Barry Halper---------9. Lew Lipset------------------9.Lionel Carter
10. Dr. R Wesiberg-----10. Charles Bray---------------10.Charles Bray

My 10...

1 Jefferson Burdick
2 EW Tigar
3 Lew Lipset
4 Buck Barker
5 Charles Bray
6 Richard Egan
7 Frank Nagy
8 Bill Haber
9 Keith Olbermann
10 Lionel Carter

I know not of Dr. Robert Wesiberg. Copeland and Halper did massive collecting, but I don't think they were that important to the hobby. Sharing information is a major component to be considered. Some major collectors have actually done things that hurt the hobby. So this isn't about the size of a collection. Tigar pushes Burdick closely for 1st...

I would think that there are many collectors of T206s who have no idea who Barker, Bray, Egan, and Haber were. They might know of Nagy and Carter only because of the slabs that bear their names for cards having been in their collections. And that is a shame. Maybe our hobby needs a book on the history of baseball card collecting. Maybe only a few of us care about such...



Either we need this site to accept spreadsheets so columns and such work, or if it already does then I need to learn how to use such. Probably both...

[Orioles1954]

I'm aware of one Sheik Semaj Nigaef of Dubai, a renowned Arabian horse trader who has quietly accumulated a superior type collection over the past three decades. It has been acquired under terms of strict confidentiality and not too many Westerners know of it.

[Kawika]

Ecin yrt, Semaj.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Frank,

I don't recall hearing of Bill Haber. Can you write a few words on him to educate? Thanks much.

Tom

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Ecin yrt, Semaj.

Hod! My apologies to Bruce, taking stuff like baseball cards too seriously is not my way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I'm aware of one Sheik Semaj Nigaef of Dubai, a renowned Arabian horse trader who has quietly accumulated a superior type collection over the past three decades. It has been acquired under terms of strict confidentiality and not too many Westerners know of it.

So why expose him?

[barrysloate]

Semaj Nigaef is James Feagin backwards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Semaj Nigaef is James Feagin backwards.

LOL no one ever accused me of being the brightest light on the tree. Good one, James!

Dear JIMVB,

My ex-wife has no interest in baseball cards. Whilst we sold some cards
as part of our divorce settlement, we went our own separate ways.

Furthermore, unlike you, she holds a graduate degree does not shoot animals
for sport, spit tobacco, nor does she have so much time on her hands
that she would waste it writing laughable posts.

Whilst we are unaware of your social activities, might we suggest a visit to Chicago- attend the Jerry Springer show. It appears that the women participants, albeit a bit smarter than you- would be your perfect match.

By the way, Jim VB, you will soon be appearing on the top of our list- the ten most foolish Board Members of All Time

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[FrankWakefield]

Tom,

Bill Haber worked for Topps. He worked there for years, as he worked his way up he eventually reached what I think was a job with the title of Sports Director. He worked on getting at least one card, one image, of everyone who played in the majors. Back in the 60's he had a collection that was on par with, and in some ways better than those of Egan, Barker, and Carter. He had all of the PCL Bowmans. When I communicated with him it was a tug of war, I'd try to pry from him information about the white border tobacco cards, and the players depicted; he was always wanting to know about Colgans Chips, which ones I had, or had seen, which team variations existed. Sometimes we'd answer the other's questions as a way of steering the conversation back to what we wanted to know about. I sent him a few Colgans, at one time he was pushing out on those known, or those that were attributed on the various lists. He was a soft spoken, gentle fellow, had worked in banking at one time. And he was big on getting the birth and death dates, and the locations correct in the old Baseball Encyclopedia. I would think he's still acknowledged in that publication, if he isn't he should be. I know Mr. Lipset acknowledges him in the 2nd Encyclopedia on Early Gum and Candy Cards; I don't recall if he's mentioned in the other two. I'd think his collection in the 60's would have been in the top 10, his knowledge of baseball cards top 10, his cataloging and record keeping top notch. At Topps he was able to determine who got a card and who didn't (subject to the contract crossfire). I deem him one of the more important collectors to our hobby.

As for Sir EW Tigar, if this was about all card collecting then I think he leaps to the top of the list. But since I deem this to be about baseball card collecting, I allow for Mr. Burdick to barely nudge him out.

[slidekellyslide]

I recently found some old 1950s hobby magazines (I didn't see anything baseball related in them) and every one of them has a classified ad from Charles Bray seeking tobacco and candy cards...there were also ads from Goodwin Goldfaden seeking sports related publications. Just imagine the stuff they must have gotten from those ads.

I was also recently looking through an early 1950s issue of Popular Science magazine and saw a Charles Bray classified ad in that too...he really covered the bases.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Agreed that just because someone has the ability to write a million dollar check doesn't make him a great collector. To make the list, one has to be a lot more well rounded than that. I've always admired the collector who maybe didn't have a lot of money to spend but was resourceful and knowledgeable, and was still able to amass a great collection by working hard and using every skill he could. That was always my definition of a great collector.

+1

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Dear JIMVB,

My ex-wife has no interest in baseball cards. Whilst we sold some cards
as part of our divorce settlement, we went our own separate ways.

Furthermore, unlike you, she holds a graduate degree does not shoot animals
for sport, spit tobacco, nor does she have so much time on her hands
that she would waste it writing laughable posts.

Whilst we are unaware of your social activities, might we suggest a visit to Chicago- attend the Jerry Springer show. It appears that the women participants, albeit a bit smarter than you- would be your perfect match.

By the way, Jim VB, you will soon be appearing on the top of our list- the ten most foolish Board Members of All Time

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

Thanks for the clarification. You were unclear in your earlier post.

So she doesn't collect baseball cards, just your pictures of dead Presidents? (You know. Like Samuel Chase.)

[Kawika]

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Bill Haber worked for Topps.I deem him one of the more important collectors to our hobby.

Thanks for that info. It's amazing to me the think about how dedicated these men were in a time were you had to be part detective, record keeper, filing clerk, letter writer, advertisement author, etc. to even understand what was out there. They also had be a clearing house, I'm sure, accepting all kinds of material in to build their sets, make trades, and sell the unwanted items. It's so different from what we do today as collectors is hard to imagine all of the duties they had to undertake. Each must have spent most of their lives locked alone in a room.

[refz]

weres mr mint on this list?

[oldjudge]

Mr Mint was not a collector

[GoSoxBoSox]

Al Rosen is a revolving door for cards. A rather pushy one at that who doesn't belong on a list like this. IMO.

[FrankWakefield]

Mr Mint was a character, flashy, he churned lots of money and lots of cards. He didn't really do anything that I perceive as important for the hobby. A presence in the hobby, yes. Important in the history of the hobby, no.

[2dueces]

This thread has all the earmarks of the typical downward spiral expected for a self serving thread. Nothing new here and the act gets quite old. At first they were entertaining but like any comic if they don't come up with new material eventually the audience stops showing up. Sad really.

[FrankWakefield]

Mr. Lipset lists Mr. Haber in his credits in vol 3 of his Encyclopedia, (I just came across one while digging for an old Baseball Encyclopedia, which I didn't find).

And here's a link about Red Morgan. It mentions Mr. Haber's efforts in the article, and this was typical of what he did... he quietly went about filling in the blanks, the missing information, in what we now look at and take for granted. He gave us a lot.

http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?...d=9977&bid=417


And Joe, I really don't understand your post.

[Wite3]

Anyone find the image of Bruce sitting in his apartment surrounded by his collection watching Jerry Springer as funny (or disturbing) as I do?

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

This thread has all the earmarks of the typical downward spiral expected for a self serving thread. Nothing new here and the act gets quite old. At first they were entertaining but like any comic if they don't come up with new material eventually the audience stops showing up. Sad really.

Joe, some of us understand your post and agree.

[FrankWakefield]

I knew what Joe meant when I saw that my buddy, Rob D had posted. I'd think Rob could have told you about Mr. Haber, too. And I didn't wax on about Mr. Haber until someone asked.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I knew what Joe meant when I saw that my buddy, Rob D had posted. I'd think Rob could have told you about Mr. Haber, too. And I didn't wax on about Mr. Haber until someone asked.

Frank, you're probably the only one on the board who previously knew about Bill Haber. Most of us know only about the numbers on slabs. Thank you for continually educating us newbies. By the way, who is this Sy Berger I hear about sometimes? Please help!

Just to clue you in, I don't think Joe -- and I know I wasn't -- referring to you in our previous posts. But keep fighting the good fight, buddy.