NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:20 PM
Sterling Sports Auctions's Avatar
Sterling Sports Auctions Sterling Sports Auctions is offline
Lee B.
lee be.hrens
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 879
Default HELMAR: Why would you make such a card?

I came across this card and found it quite distasteful. I would love to here the logic for making the card and eve the title "Carl Mays Lets one Loose". I know the person behind the cards reads the board. Will we be seeing a Marichal/Rosboro card soon or other cards depicting tragedy in baseball?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T202-Helmar-...item1c25d3a19a

Truly Tasteless,

Lee Behrens
__________________
Tired of Ebay or looking for a place to sell your cards, let SterlingSportsAuctions.com do the work for you, monthly auctions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:43 PM
camlov2 camlov2 is offline
Brian Horne
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 457
Default

Have to agree with the OP, also on the back of the card where it talks of Chapman and says "Cleveland's second place finish in 1919 maybe foreshadowing of a great year to come for Chapman."

A for artwork, F for topic selection.
__________________
Br.ia.n Ho.rn.e
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:10 AM
Ladder7's Avatar
Ladder7 Ladder7 is offline
Steve F
St.eve F@llet.ti
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Atlantis
Posts: 2,030
Default

A rehash of the beaning is tragedy that strangely sells.

Player cards pulling big $, long after they've passed is just plain whacky noo noo. But, I've been wrong before.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:33 AM
yanksfan09's Avatar
yanksfan09 yanksfan09 is offline
_Er!ck*L.ew1n_
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 1,988
Default

I saw this too and was thinking the same thing. Probably should have just left it alone.
__________________
Er1ck.L. ---D381 seeker http://www.flickr.com/photos/30236659@N04/sets/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:03 AM
Orioles1954 Orioles1954 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,253
Default

I honestly don't see the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:11 AM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,318
Default

I don't see the value of Helmar in general.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:38 AM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lee are you sure your not upset at the comment made about his pitch being similar bowling in Mays bio

I like some of the cards designs but would not buy any FWIW
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-16-2012, 08:34 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 6,122
Default

Maybe Helmar can buy up some of the Clemente wreckage and insert tiny pieces into cards.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:00 AM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Probably could have used another headline but otherwise I don't have a problem with the card.

The two players are intertwined in baseball history, morbid as it may be.

It's silly to ignore the connection like it never happened.

Maybe it's because I come from the boxing world, where events like this become part of the general discussion of the history of the sport.

Griffith/Paret, Davey Moore/Sugar Ramos, Mancini/Kim, etc..

You just can't separate the men or the events that transpired, regardless of what the rest of their careers entailed.

BTW, I don't own any of the Helmar cards, but I sure do like them. I find it a bit odd that the same people who complain that "they don't make cards like they used to", also complain about these cards.

I'd most likely pay a premium for one of these, then I ever would for a Strasburg Silver Chrome Diamond Cut Space Patch card.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:17 AM
milkit1's Avatar
milkit1 milkit1 is offline
Sean Brennan
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,335
Default

yeah I dont understand the problem either? the "carl mays lets one loose" title has nothing to do with the beaning. it s the title for the middle picture just like the original t202s were. regarding putting the two players together being tasteless, how so? it happened. just like the black sox our the nolan ryan/robin ventura fight its a part of baseball history. pig headedly ignoring these things seems silly. comparing the card to the clemente crash is also rediculous as the crash itself had nothing to do with baseball. the beaning happened DURING a game and is every bit a part of the games history as any other famous play and I see no difference between doing a t202 style chapman/mays card and doing a merkle/evers card.
regarding the "great year to come line", chapman had a good year in 1919 so why not speculate that 1920 would have been even better?


oh and I am the one that wrote that card, other then the title itself which wasn't mine. I am also proud to say I wrote the other hassans. rest assured there wont be any clemente/fateful landing/airplane cards in the future but if I get to write a merkle/not touching second/ evers card ill be very happy to do so. I might even mention bonehead once or twice, space permitting.

Last edited by milkit1; 04-16-2012 at 10:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-16-2012, 12:59 PM
carrigansghost's Avatar
carrigansghost carrigansghost is offline
Rawn Hill
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 886
Default

I have a couple and really like the cards. Keep up the good work. History is history, we should not pretend it didn't happen.

Rawn
__________________
Not a forensic examiner, nor a veterinarian, but I know a horse's behind from a long ways away.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-16-2012, 02:16 PM
Jay Wolt's Avatar
Jay Wolt Jay Wolt is offline
qualitycards
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gettysburg PA area
Posts: 2,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrigansghost View Post
I have a couple and really like the cards. Keep up the good work. History is history, we should not pretend it didn't happen.

Rawn
I agree there are countless non sports sets dealing w/ the tragedy of war
from the Civil War sets in the 1880's to the WWI & II & Vietnam sets of modern times
and many sets dealing w/ tyrants & murderers.
Don't think Helmar was glorifying the situation, just reporting it.
I'm sure there are some collectors who aren't even that familiar w/ the Mays/Chapman beaning death.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:04 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Wolt View Post
I'm sure there are some collectors who aren't even that familiar w/ the Mays/Chapman beaning death.

Odd thing is, if they picked up this card and read the back, they still wouldn't know.

The center panel doesn't show Mays "beaning" anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:14 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Hmmm! Glancing at Carl Mays record.

I wonder how many other 20th Century pitchers with (5) 20 Win Seasons, a career ERA under 3.00 and a winning % over .620, have not even come close to getting in the HOF.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:26 PM
nolemmings's Avatar
nolemmings nolemmings is offline
Todd Schultz
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,720
Default Yuck

I don't care for the title at all, and think the whole concept could have been handled better. For one thing, the card is at least awkward in its juxtatposed biographies. It wants the reader to believe that Chapman has not been beaned yet, by foreshadowing a potential great year on the heels of his 1919 season. Yet the same card mentions Mays' having completed his first full season as a Yankee with a 26-11 record, which would have occurred AFTER the 1920 season and after Chapman was dead. IOW the "card" would have been printed after the beaning and there would be no reason to not mention its fateful outcome.

To me a memorial T202 that spoke of the event would have been more appropriate, and a different title more tasteful.
__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:15 PM
TexasLeaguer's Avatar
TexasLeaguer TexasLeaguer is offline
Ross B.
member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dallas
Posts: 113
Default Search and Browse manipulation

These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:20 PM
HOF Auto Rookies's Avatar
HOF Auto Rookies HOF Auto Rookies is offline
Brent Niederman
Bre.nt Nieder.m@n
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLeaguer View Post
These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.
And since that is true, this a a pre-war forum, and therefore should not be discussed here, and should be discussed in the "water-cooler" section.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:47 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Lot of hard-liners here. LOL!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-17-2012, 04:03 PM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 20 miles east of the Mistake
Posts: 2,269
Default

I don't mind the title of the card or the pairing. However, it could've done without the line "a pitch that leaves the opposition speechless at the plate."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:43 PM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLeaguer View Post
These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.
Maybe we can all do this with the thousands of reprints first, then worry about the Helmars?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:48 PM
danmckee danmckee is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcard1 View Post
I don't see the value of Helmar in general.
WELL STATED!!!

Some of them look neat but none would ever bring hundreds of dollars without SirShill at the helm.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Provenance of a Vintage Card - Share another Story frankbmd Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 59 07-03-2014 11:52 PM
Need Help Evaluating a Card: Registration Ericc22 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 12-15-2011 02:17 PM
Helmar help wanted: writing card backs sirraffles Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 10-22-2011 09:13 AM
Help me make a card? Need a '55B Lawrence Bob Lemke Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 2 06-16-2010 02:41 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:07 AM.


ebay GSB