1890 Players League Sam Thompson Cabinet RARE

[Schwertfeger1007]

*Edit* Possibly a PHI NL Cabinet. But still cool. PM me if interested.

[Schwertfeger1007]

I guess photos would help.

[edhans]

Great Piece, Brian. Just curious what makes it a Player's League cabinet.

[insidethewrapper]

Good question. Slab states 1880's cabinet, and the BST listing states 1890 Players League. I don't believe he ever played in the Players League and the slab description doesn't state that.

[Keith H. Thompson]

this Thompson cabinet card was made for the Philadelphia Players League entry for several reasons. I own two copies of this same pose, and I know of no examples other than the one offered in this thread.

1. One of my cards came to the market via Terry Knouse (Tic & Tac) in a collection of genuine Player's League cabinets. Terry showed them to me at a
Reading, PA show. I say genuine because many were of obscure players who may not have played for a National League Team. When I first saw the "Thompson" neither of us was sure it was Sam Thompson. He is not in a uniform, and the card is identified only by the cursive script "Thompson" on the front and the cursive script "Malarial Thompson" on the back. The identification came later. (for which I take full credit)

2. Thompson did jump to the Player's League in the spring of 1890, and at Spring Training games on the East Coast Sam and his wife were shunned and mocked by National League Players. Sam, of course, jumped back, possibly at the personal request of Harry Wright.

3. The cabinet card is published by MacIntire Bros, Philadelphia. Sam and Ida never had a residence in Philadelphia, even though he played for the
Quakers for ten years. It is my theory that Sam had this cabinet done at the request of the Philadelhia Players League entry for publicity purposes, but I have never seen it published anywhere in a newspaper or periodical. Which is understandable since he never played for the team.

I'm always interested in all the evidence that can be brought to bear on the matter.

[edhans]

Thank you for the explanation, Keith. Entirely plausible, though not exactly definitive. Terrific piece either way.

BTW, Terry and his son go by TIK & TIK-their initials, I believe.

[insidethewrapper]

According to the biography of Sam Thompson by Roy Kerr, Sam played for the Philadelphia team during the 1890 Spring Training and it was the Boston team of the Players League which shunned and mocked Sam , his wife and the team.

[Keith H. Thompson]

that the many errors and oversights in my posts are attributable to my age (93 years old) . For example, I know full well that that Terry Knouse goes by the handle TIK and TIK. But more important, I should have known that the Philadelphia Player's League entry were the "Quakers" and that the National League team were the "Phillies."

It also gives me an opportunity to promote Roy Kerr's biography of "Big Sam Thompson." It is not just a puff piece. Roy was a dedicated researcher of the old school and never trusted anything he did not verify himself. But even so, the book is rooted on my pictorial collection, my brother Davids notes from microfilm, Sam & Ida's scrapbook and family histories from my cousin Don and other relatives. I worked very closely with Roy on the book and proofread each chapter as it unfolded. It is by far the most important and accurate biography of Sam ever done.

[Leon]

This was moved to the front page as there's some good info in it...
.

[Fred]

This is a super nice piece.

What's up with his hair? Looks odd.

Keith, I believe you're correct - Tik and Tik. It was just amazing how much stuff Terry displayed at shows.

[z28jd]

Thompson's time with the Player's League club was extremely short. He likely signed on November 19, 1889 (it was announced on November 20th), and then his return to the National League on a three-year deal was announced on December 23rd, but you can find speculation a week earlier (December 17th newspapers) that he already signed and they had to wait to announce it. There was talk in the December 10/11 newspapers that he was in Indianapolis and meeting with John Brush about returning to the National League, so he may have signed even earlier.

That doesn't mean it can't be a Player's League cabinet, but it can't be both an 1890 photo and a Player's League photo. He was basically a Player's League member for four weeks tops, and was ready to bail on the league in under three full weeks. He was already in a meeting 20 days after signing to leave. That leaves a short time to take the photo, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Thompson said in an early January interview that he left the Player's League because he had no assurance that it would last, so when he received a three-year/$10,000 contract from the Philadelphia NL team, he jumped back.

[Keith H. Thompson]

and verifiable in contemporary newspapers and periodicals like The Sporting News. The Press at the time deliberately dragged red herrings across the paths, quoted Thompson and Brush incorrectly and otherwise tried to influence Thompson and other players one way or the other.

To return to the photo: Perhaps the most important reason for my speculation (for indeed it is only that) is that it came from the same source and in the same batch that Terry bought. For in that same collection were cards of players in uniform. My (uncertain) recollection is that they were Player's League Team uniforms. Terry would remember. He had them on sale at the Shriner's Show for many years.

Another personal reason is "what other explanation is there for these three cabinets?" Between Joe Gonsowski, Jay Miller and myself, we possibly have an example of every cabinet card of Sam ever produced. In addition I have several family cabinet photos of Sam in street clothes that are unique, or at least yet to be discovered. One of my photos is one I won at auction a few years ago. It is slabbed by PSA as GOOD and identified as c1890 MacINTIRE BROS.

Thus, there may be several more of these MacIntire Bros photos out there, and any attribution to a Player's League Card is as bogus as my memory.

[oldjudge]

Hi Keith! I hope you are well. Since Thompson played for Philadelphia NL team from 1889 well into the 1890s I see no reason to believe that this cabinet is from that sliver of time when Sam was involved with the PL. If he was wearing a uniform we could accurately say, but since he is in street clothes my best guess is that it is an 1889 or later cabinet from when he was playing in the NL. Again, since he is not wearing a uniform I'm not sure the distinction matters much anyway. I think if there was more information Leland's probably would have included it in their write-up. Still a nice cabinet though and, contrary to some posted lately, at least we know it is Sam.

[Keith H. Thompson]

when I first saw Terry Knouse's example, I said -- "that can't be Sam, I've never seen him in anything but a uniform or a rustic suit." Much less a bow tie. And I have my family album with studio cabinets of Sam, his brothers and sisters and their spouses to prove it.

The pose in this thread cannot be definitely attributed to the Player's League and therefore should not be. The OP has changed his listing appropriately. However, I want to go on record with my view that the cabinet was created for the Philadelphia Player's League entry. A theory upon which I stake my personal reputation.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Thompson's time with the Player's League club was extremely short. He likely signed on November 19, 1889 (it was announced on November 20th), and then his return to the National League on a three-year deal was announced on December 23rd, but you can find speculation a week earlier (December 17th newspapers) that he already signed and they had to wait to announce it. There was talk in the December 10/11 newspapers that he was in Indianapolis and meeting with John Brush about returning to the National League, so he may have signed even earlier.

That doesn't mean it can't be a Player's League cabinet, but it can't be both an 1890 photo and a Player's League photo. He was basically a Player's League member for four weeks tops, and was ready to bail on the league in under three full weeks. He was already in a meeting 20 days after signing to leave. That leaves a short time to take the photo, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Thompson said in an early January interview that he left the Player's League because he had no assurance that it would last, so when he received a three-year/$10,000 contract from the Philadelphia NL team, he jumped back.

Good research John. And Keith not to belabor things but after checking through newspapers.com for Indiana entries I wanted to bring up a point. It mentions how Sam was reached at his home (in Indiana) to sign his players contract and that he was in Indianapolis with Brush possibly discussing contracts and that he eventually signed a League contract with Brush acting as rep for the League
...but nowhere does it say that Sam left his home to go to Philadelphia. And he'd have to have been in Philadelphia if MacIntyre was to have photogtaphed him. So it seems if he did go to Philadelphia, that would've been mentioned.

That said, great photo of a great early HOFer. Keith, I plan on buying Kerr's book but in the mean time do you have any nugget of info on your relative you could add here; maybe like what kind of person he was, what your elder relatives may have said his voice was like, anything of a more personal nature. If not, no worries. And thanks for your thoughts on this card.

[Schwertfeger1007]

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

when I first saw Terry Knouse's example, I said -- "that can't be Sam, I've never seen him in anything but a uniform or a rustic suit." Much less a bow tie. And I have my family album with studio cabinets of Sam, his brothers and sisters and their spouses to prove it.

The pose in this thread cannot be definitely attributed to the Player's League and therefore should not be. The OP has changed his listing appropriately. However, I want to go on record with my view that the cabinet was created for the Philadelphia Player's League entry. A theory upon which I stake my personal reputation.

I don't think PL makes or breaks the quality or value of the piece by any means but I appreciate the background Keith!

[Keith H. Thompson]

and never miss an opportunity to talk about Sam when invited. Or even when not.
First, Sam and all of his brothers and sisters, my father and I were born in Danville, Indiana. I was four years old in 1934 when my family moved to Rochester, Michigan, but on vacations we would visit Danville for family gatherings. At that time, Sam's sisters Anna and Jessie lived together in a house on N. Indiana Street. Aunt Anna was a cashier at a local bank, and her husband had deserted her, never to be heard from again. Aunt Jessie was a spinster and a milliner by trade. I remember them well.
Nugget 1: Aunt Anna would reminisce. "Sammy would have to stoop to get through the doorways."
Nugget 2: My father and his cousins would beg Sam to play catch with them, but he never would.
Nugget 3: By any account, including newspaper articles and verbal family history, Sam was a "gentle giant" in a generation of ball players known for drinking and rowdy behaviour on and off the diamond.
Second, our family has been approached several times by authors seeking help in writing biographies. We have always demurred, but Roy Kerr was different. I have met him personally and have heard his "talk" he would give on book selling engagements and once at the Indiana Historical Society. One thing that attracted us to Roy was his agreement to portray Sam as a "rustic gentleman," and to me, this is one of the really important features of his book.

[Keith H. Thompson]

Sam, like my father, was an avid rabbit hunter. I have a Christmas card written by Sam to his sister saying -- "bagged 43 rabbits yesterday." Think about that for a moment. Why in the world is Sam spending time hunting rabbits? And even if so, why is that news a headliner on a Christmas card? My explanation is that hunting rabbits was an Indiana outdoor sport and household chore for farmers. My father grew up on an Indiana farm and killed scores of rabbits all year long. My mother canned rabbit. We ate fried rabbit, and my mother tanned skins and made me a rabbit skin jacket. I suspect that there is something "Hoosier" about all this that outsiders do not understand. Or maybe understand all too well.

I will add that Roy Kerr's book dispels many myths regarding Thompson, particularly on the circumstances and details of his "discovery" and "signing." Readers may have noticed that the full title of Roy's book is "Big Sam Thompson, Baseball's Greatest Clutch Hitter". I argued with Roy about this and thought the expression excessive but was overruled. However, Thompson's lifetime average of (RBI + Runs Scored) per game is significantly ahead of any player who ever played the game.

Roy also makes the case that Thompson was a five tool player in the modern sense.

[WillowGrove]

Keith. Thank you! Those nuggets mean a lot considering the source. I'll certainly pick up the book and knowing it has your approval, I'll enjoy it even more.