Notes from a former card Grader/Authenticator

[frankbmd]

Andy,

What’s Your Monster Number?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I would seriously fail the card grader test. Takes me about a minute and a half just to put a card in a card saver while being paranoid the whole time I'm going to lift up a spot on a corner, just sliding it down into the holder.

45 seconds per card, while being able to also detect micro-trimming, alterations, factory cuts, non-factory cuts, etc...

GTFOH with that!

Maybe 2023 Pokemons straight out of the pack...but vintage? No way.

Takes me like 10 minutes under a light, magnifying glass, and my own constantly trailing off thoughts to even come to a guess what a T206 I'm submitting "might" come back as...and I'm usually wrong.

Greg Morris said he was able to grade his cards listed on eBay in just a few seconds per card. I believe him. With the right setup and experience, you can grade cards fairly accurately pretty quickly. Especially if you only have to align them within a few grade ranges like he does.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jayshum

That's a good point and brings up this question for the OP. Is significantly more time spent grading a higher value card than a low value card?

Yes, definitely. Very high-end cards get looked at by multiple graders. When I sent in my Menko Jackie Robinson to SGC, they told me that they brought in their entire senior grading team to examine it.

[Fred]

An assumption is that all TPGs will charge on a sliding scale that charges higher $$$ for higher value cards. If they have a $15/card charge and "run" through the grading process, do they at least pause a little to grade a card that they are going to charge $500+ for encapsulation?

I looked at the PSA charges and it indicates $75 for a $1.5K card, $600 for a card valued at $9,999 (for walk through service). To me that's insanity. There's a $10K charge for grading a card value > $250K.

Sorry, I guess it's just sticker shock. It's been a long time since I looked at the PSA site for prices for grading.

[steve B]

I can't think of any grading/authentication place that doesn't have a sliding scale for pricing.

While 45 seconds seems crazy to us, to a pro at anything it's probably plenty of time for most items.
I had a couple items looked at by an expert at an international stamp shows "roadshow" type activity. The guy doing it was a long time dealer and probably expertiser, and did a basic authentication on both in under a minute. The explaining took longer, and I learned a lot. (especially that I might just know what I'm doing because I was right about both. )

Grading and a complete expertising might take a bit longer, especially the grading. But for most cards I can see it being a very quick process.
Should it be? I would like to think more time could be taken, especially on more expensive things. I think at 45 seconds, a lot of stuff like alterations could be missed.
But as it is everyone complains if it's"too slow" and also complains if it isn't what they think is correct, and especially if an alteration got missed.

[bn2cardz]

Sorry I have been gone the last couple of days. Been down with a cold.
I will try and answer each question I saw in my absence.

Originally Posted by steve B

Possibly not answerable, but was there pressure or expectations of you for quickness?

Like them wanting a certain number of cards per hour or day? (Obviously that number would be secret)

Originally Posted by JustinD

Thanks for opening the secret door a tad Andy!

One question that you may or may not be able to answer, how much time do you feel is spent on average looking at a singular card? Is their a company standard for review time?

Like you said not fully answerable. However, I don't think I am speaking out of place to say that they do try and stress accuracy over speed.

Originally Posted by G1911

I know from experience that this empathetic understanding does not stop CSG from unilaterally nixing a deal between a consenting buyer and consenting seller who reached a deal on eBay and who do not care one white for a fourth parties consent to their deal.

I would never say that the program is without its flaws. I was merely the hired employee, not the one making the high end decisions.

Originally Posted by Snowman

Are you of the opinion that there is always evidence left behind from trimmed cards then? Or at least that there is usually evidence left behind, and that when a trimmed card slips through, it could have or should have been caught, and that the only reason these surface with some degree of regularity is because of the sheer volume of cards that these companies are handling?

I do believe there is some evidence left behind, yes. Of course I could be wrong and am only one guy that is fallible. It is easier to detect on cards when you have handled 1000s of cards from a particular set and you know the intricacies of that set (how it rolls, which way the blade impression is left, how smooth/rough an edge is, size differences, etc.). It is certainly harder to pick up the smaller changes on a set that you rarely see. That is why talking to a team of people is always better than looking at it with only your own set of eyes.

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I wonder how many of those are Pokey-Man.

And for Andy: How incredbly tired are you of Pokemon? Do card graders get flooded with violent thoughts whenever they run into anything Pokeman-related in the course of their daily lives?

As noted previously we were split between CGC and CSG. CGC did game cards and CSG did sports. When they merged to just CGC that separation still remained internally. So, I didn't work with game cards.

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Great post! Thanks for starting the thread.

Question for you.. What is CSG's plan on grading more vintage? Is this a priority? or are they not concentrating on it? I haven't seen much CSG vintage at card shows or in auctions.

I can't discuss any internal marketing plans. It is safe to say that Vintage is a priority since Andy Broome (also a member of this site) is the VP and Vintage is his collecting preference.

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Maybe the OP will chime in, but a straight quote from Andy Broome's (CGC) mouth to my ears was that a fully trained and up-to-speed card grader will grade 40-50 cards per hour.

I would not challenge what Broome says.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I would seriously fail the card grader test. Takes me about a minute and a half just to put a card in a card saver while being paranoid the whole time I'm going to lift up a spot on a corner, just sliding it down into the holder.

45 seconds per card, while being able to also detect micro-trimming, alterations, factory cuts, non-factory cuts, etc...

GTFOH with that!

Maybe 2023 Pokemons straight out of the pack...but vintage? No way.

Takes me like 10 minutes under a light, magnifying glass, and my own constantly trailing off thoughts to even come to a guess what a T206 I'm submitting "might" come back as...and I'm usually wrong.

Not really a question here, but it does bring up a good point. Certain cards take more time than others. I was always expected to be slower since I dealt with more vintage than my colleagues that dealt primarily with ultra-modern.

Originally Posted by jayshum

That's a good point and brings up this question for the OP. Is significantly more time spent grading a higher value card than a low value card?

I don't believe I can answer that one.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Andy,

What’s Your Monster Number?

I don't actively collect the set. I certainly have t206s, but I don't know how many off the top of my head.


I do want to reiterate that I no longer am in the field, so I have no vested interest in the company or grading. These are my opinions and POV from working in the field previously. I may have confidence in my abilities that others may find unwarranted. Someone could certainly prove me wrong at any time (especially about evidence of trimming). However, I believe if you don't have some confidence in your skills at any job (not just grading/authenticating, but any job) you will become useless as you flounder in your uncertainty.


I don't know that I can provide much more as the questions are staying on the topic of processes. There are several interviews/tours that Andy Broome has given that provide some more insight of the process and those can be found on youtube.

[steve B]

well, here's an interesting one that I've wondered about since I spotted it.

Some modern cards like Gypsy Queen have cuts on some cards that are a mix of blade and die cut. Like die cut on a couple edges, and blade cut on one or two. (I think because the sheet margins are trimmed before die cutting)

Id that known to the grading companies? And if not how do they handle the mixed processes when determining trimming.