2016 Hall of Fame Ballot, Who would you vote for?

[cardsfan73]

Let's pretend we all have a 2016 BBWAA Hall Of Fame Ballot.. You can pick up to 10 ELIGIBLE players. Below is a link to this years ballot. Who are you voting for?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

Be interested to see everyone's picks!

Scott

[bn2cardz]

A list of who I would vote for, not who I think will make it in.

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Ken Griffey
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Mike Mussina
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire

A good tracker as public votes come in:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...C7uZHAmcVGWgwE

[Jim65]

Griffey Jr and Piazza.

[packs]

Ken Griffey Jr.
Mike Mussina
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Fred McGriff

[KCRfan1]

In no particular order:

McGwire
Griffey
Clemons
Bonds
Piazza
Bagwell
Walker
McGriff
Kent
Raines

Interesting that none of us have selected a reliever yet.

[JCC]

Piazza
Bagwell
Schilling
Clemens
Bonds
Smith
McGwire
Sosa
Griffey
Hoffman

[Beatles Guy]

David Eckstein

[cardsfan73]

My ballot would be:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Ken Griffey
Tim Raines
Mike Piazza
Lee Smith
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa

My opinion of Jeff Kent constantly changes.. His offensive numbers as a second baseman are amazing. But truth of the matter is he was really a first baseman/third basemen playing second. His defense was pretty horrible at second and he really should have been playing first or third. When you put his offensive numbers up against other 1b/3b of the era I don't think they are Hall Of Fame numbers.

I also really think that Larry Walker was a great all around player but I am not sure if he is a Hall Of Famer. On one hand he spent all those years in a hitters park in Colorado, but by the same token he spent so many of his early years in the horrible hitters park that was Olympic Stadium. I was able to watch him finish up his career in St. Louis and although age and injuries had begun to slow him down he was still a pretty amazing player.

[packs]

I've always been a big fan of Larry Walker's. He was an incredible hitter. If not for Tony Gwynn batting 372 in 1997, he would have won 3 batting titles in a row and 4 in 5 years. As it stands, 3 titles in 4 seasons is still incredible and it's a peak that I think makes him just as good as anyone else in the Hall.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

David Eckstein

Oh Jason!!! LOL

[KCRfan1]

I don't believe in holding it against a player based on the park they played in. Walker can't help MLB put a team in Colorado and he ended up playing there. We could make the same case for Ruth and that short porch in right for him to lob homers over, or just about any Red Sox player to hit the ball off the Monster. It's an endless of " what if " said player played elsewhere. The same can be said for pitchers and the parks they have pitched in.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

I don't believe in holding it against a player based on the park they played in. Walker can't help MLB put a team in Colorado and he ended up playing there. We could make the same case for Ruth and that short porch in right for him to lob homers over, or just about any Red Sox player to hit the ball off the Monster. It's an endless of " what if " said player played elsewhere. The same can be said for pitchers and the parks they have pitched in.

The difference between Ruth and Walker in this case is that Ruth's home and road numbers are almost indistinguishable while Walker's lifetime OPS at home is more than 200 points higher than his road OPS. I'd still vote for him though.

Btw, he could help that he ended up in Colorado as it was his decision to sign w/the Rockies a s free agent.

[KCRfan1]

Howard, there is a lot of appeal to Colorado besides the park. Perhaps I am in the minority in not holding anything against players for the park they play in. However, let's be fair that parks have helped many players careers besides Colorado. Any Yankee lefty was aided by Yankee Stadium.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Howard, there is a lot of appeal to Colorado besides the park. Perhaps I am in the minority in not holding anything against players for the park they play in. However, let's be fair that parks have helped many players careers besides Colorado. Any Yankee lefty was aided by Yankee Stadium.

Sure there have been Yankee lefties aided by the short porch. Bill Dickey comes to mind but even his road OPS is only about 35 lower than his home OPS. Larry Walker's career OPS was over 200 points higher at home and the gap is even more dramatic if only his Colorado years are counted. Some of the Greatest Yankee lefties including Ruth, Gehrig and Reggie Jackson hit as well or better on the road as they did at the Yankee Stadium. I doubt that's the case for any of the Rockies best hitters.

[Rookiemonster]

Griffey

Clemens

Piazza

Bonds

[packs]

Chuck Klein is the closest comparison to a career at Coors Field and Klein is in. He hit 354 at home and 286 on the road. OPS was 1.028 at home vs .813 on the road.

They both played 17 seasons. Walker out hits him in every category except average, where Klein has a 3 point advantage (320 vs 317).

[Centauri]

Piazza
Raines
Bonds
Schilling
McGriff
Griffey
Clemens
Albert Belle (write in)

[Beatles Guy]

My ballot would be:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Ken Griffey
Tim Raines
Mike Piazza
Lee Smith
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa

Scott: No Bagwell? I really thought he would be a first ballot guy. I did not want to see him walking to the plate with runners on when he was playing the Cardinals.

[packs]

Juiced.

[Beatles Guy]

Originally Posted by packs

Juiced.

As were most of the players named.

[packs]

Those players won't get in. You asked about Bagwell, he's not in because he juiced.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Scott: No Bagwell? I really thought he would be a first ballot guy. I did not want to see him walking to the plate with runners on when he was playing the Cardinals.

Originally Posted by packs

Juiced.

Originally Posted by packs

Those players won't get in. You asked about Bagwell, he's not in because he juiced.

Bagwell Juiced? Based off of what? His name has never come up leaked or official. With as good as he is his name would have been at the top of someone's list if there was good reason for it.

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...steroids-2001/

[packs]

Based off public opinion. Run a Google search.

[KCRfan1]

So, does Ortiz get in? Fairly wide belief he juiced and I believe actually named, or am I mistaken? Bagwell's been convicted in the court of public opinion and that's it.

[packs]

Ortiz did fail a survey test in 2003. It is well known and substantiated by the player's union. He claims he doesn't know why.

The Astros as an organization are well connected with steroids and PEDs. Caminiti was a good friend of Bagwell. He played on the same teams as Pettite and Clemens, four Astros suspended in 2010, another 3 in 2013, it goes on and on. It may be circumstantial and guilt by association, but it's not something that came out of thin air.

[chaddurbin]

griffey
edgar martinez
bonds
clemens
piazza
mussina
raines

i tend to go with the best players in the era...so bonds and clemens get in from the steroids guys....sosa and mcgwire don't. bonds not in is a bigger injustice than joe jax or pete rose. no ortiz or bagwell for juice.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Scott: No Bagwell? I really thought he would be a first ballot guy. I did not want to see him walking to the plate with runners on when he was playing the Cardinals.

Bagwell gets my vote next year? LOL

Did he ever actually get busted for PEDS or just accused?

Honestly for players from this era my feeling is that more of them were using PEDS than were not. So if you were among the best of PED users you were the best of your era and you can go in the Hall. I don't see it as a Hall Of Moral & Good guys. If we didn't allow players in who cheated or who took some form of performance enhancers the Hall would have a lot less members.

And also.. I didn't really intend this thread to be about who will get in, more about who YOU would vote for if you had a ballot.

[cardsfan73]

So you think/assume Bagwell to PED's so he doesn't get it? Let's go purge the hall of every guy from the 60's and 70's that were hyped up on speed & greenies too!

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

griffey
edgar martinez
bonds
clemens
piazza
mussina
raines

i tend to go with the best players in the era...so bonds and clemens get in from the steroids guys....sosa and mcgwire don't. bonds not in is a bigger injustice than joe jax or pete rose. no ortiz or bagwell for juice.

Not a Sosa guy.. but he was one of the biggest offensive threats of that era. 600+ home runs, 1600+ RBI's, 1400+ runs... Pretty impressive.

As far as McGwire I think a lot of people see him as a one dimensional Dave Kingman type who only hit homers. But if you look at his stats later in his career you see that he becomes a much better hitter. Look at the how OBP and walk totals improve and he starts to hit for much better average other than the seasons with major injuries. I also think he was a pretty decent defensive player for a guy his size. Lets not forget he was a 12 time all-star in his 16 year career.

I am also of the opinion that the McGwire/Sosa homerun chase brought a lot of fans back to the game and I don't think that is something that should be over looked. Before that Summer a lot of fans had become disenchanted with the game after all the labour strife & cancelling of the World Series.

[KCRfan1]

McGwire hitting in the Home Run Derby at Fenway was classic. Just remember to turn off the sound so you don't have to listen to Behrman.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

McGwire hitting in the Home Run Derby at Fenway was classic. Just remember to turn off the sound so you don't have to listen to Behrman.

If this were facebook I would have hit the like button!

[Beatles Guy]

Mike Piazza
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Ken Griffey Jr.

If I had a vote on the Veteran's Committee: Ted Simmons and Gil Hodges.

[KCRfan1]

+1 for Simmons and Hodges

[TAVG]

Piazza
bagwell
schilling
edgar martinez
mike mussina
mcgriff
walker
garciaparra
griffey
edmonds

[bnorth]

Roger Clemens
Fred McGriff
Barry Bonds
Ken Griffey Jr

[jason.1969]

Griffey, Jr.
Raines

[glynparson]

Barry Bonds
Ken Griffey Jr
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Allan Trammell
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa

Do not cae if they juiced and I honestly believe Bagwell juiced go to the video for before and after shots.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Based off public opinion. Run a Google search.

I did run a google search. I am not up-to-date on all the PED suspensions so I had to run one before commenting. That is when I realized there was no reason to suspect him other than...

Originally Posted by packs

It may be circumstantial and guilt by association...

Who are we to use assumptions to judge people? I am just not ok to accuse someone when no investigation, testing, or even name leaks have pointed to someone. Just because someone got larger in their 20s?

[packs]

There are countless stories about Bagwell addressing PED suspicions. I'm not sure what it was you searched to come up with nothing. Also voters are the ones to make assumptions about players, because voting someone into the HOF is an opinion. So in the court of public opinion, assumptions and speculation come into play when rendering an opinion. You're not making a legal argument to get into the HOF, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[jason.1969]

Another way to view Bagwell is to say his sick numbers really weren't that notable during the era in which he played. Granted most of those inflated numbers of the era were from juicers, but nonetheless...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

There are countless stories about Bagwell addressing PED suspicions. I'm not sure what it was you searched to come up with nothing.

Google search: PED Bagwell

Do I need more key words to find the "evidence"? Just because people speculate and asked him still is nothing. I don't find any more evidence than if I type in "PED Griffey". I didn't say there wasn't speculation, but I said there was no evidence and has never been named (outside of speculation/assumptions).

Originally Posted by packs

Also voters are the ones to make assumptions about players, because voting someone into the HOF is an opinion. So in the court of public opinion, assumptions and speculation come into play when rendering an opinion.

I know the voters make assumptions, but it doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by packs

You're not making a legal argument to get into the HOF, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Why does it have to be a legal argument to know that it is morally and ethically wrong to judge someone based off assumptions? Legal standards were suppose to be based off what should be common decency. I don't have to be in a court room to be decent towards a fellow human being.

All this said I am not declaring that Bagwell was clean, but who are we to say he wasn't just because someone else made the assumption and it is the popular belief even without a shred of evidence?

He did use muscle builders, but none of them were banned at the time of use. That is what we KNOW and if someone wants to use that against him, than fine at least they are using facts.

[Beatles Guy]

Bagwell was also top 10 in MVP voting six times while winning it once. I think was impresses me most are two things I didn't remember; he stole over 200 bases in his career (including over 30 per season twice) and averaged 114 runs scored for his career.

To me, he was the Frank Thomas of the NL with better speed. Thomas hung around a little too long and padded his numbers, Bagwell hung it up a 37 with something still in the tank.

[KCRfan1]

If Ortiz gets in the Hall, that may open the flood gates for other PED users to get into the Hall. Ortiz fails a test, and comments " I don't know what happened "? Yeah, bewildering isn't it. It's an unsolved mystery. Bagwell has been convicted in the court of public opinion due to the era he played, with nothing to back up PED usage, other than some people " thinking ".

[packs]

Bagwell admitted taking Andro in 1998. It wasn't banned until 2004, but that admission might stick in the minds of voters. You asked a question I am only giving you reasonable answers as to why perception is what it is. I'm not against you or anything.

[KCRfan1]

You're right PACKS. Perception is the reality, and that appears to be enough for voters to keep Bagwell out of the Hall.

[Head928]

What about some love for Jeff Kent?....his numbers are there

[Head928]

What about some love for Jeff Kent?....his numbers are there

[Joshchisox08]

Griffey Jr.
Hoffman
McGwire
McGriff
Martinez
Schilling
Raines
Piazza

[HRBAKER]

Griffey, Jr.
McGriff

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

If Ortiz gets in the Hall, that may open the flood gates for other PED users to get into the Hall. Ortiz fails a test, and comments " I don't know what happened "? Yeah, bewildering isn't it. It's an unsolved mystery. Bagwell has been convicted in the court of public opinion due to the era he played, with nothing to back up PED usage, other than some people " thinking ".

Not only that, remember he vowed that he "will not rest" until he found out how this ghastly mistake was made!