MLB Award Winners for 2014

[barrysloate]

Who are going to win the top awards this year? My choices:

AL MVP- Mike Trout (Nelson Cruz second)
NL MVP- Clayton Kershaw
AL CY Young- tough call, either Weaver or Kluber. Nobody stands alone
NL Cy Young- Clayton Kershaw
AL Rookie of the Year- Jose Abreu
NL Rookie of the Year- either Jacob de Grom or Billy Hamilton

Best player in baseball this year: Clayton Kershaw

[packs]

AL MVP: Trout
NL MVP: Kershaw

AL CY: King Felix / Chris Sale
NL CY: Kershaw

AL ROY: Betances
NL ROY: DeGromm / Ken Giles

[barrysloate]

Chris Sale has had a sensational season, but at only 12-4 I think it will be tough for him to win.

[packs]

I don't know how much his record will come into play. He leads the AL in ERA, ERA Plus, and K's per 9. That's a pretty dominating season.

[barrysloate]

I know, he's been great and there is no clear winner in the AL. We'll see what happens.

[packs]

I think this year's awards for the AL are pretty exciting. Not really any locks, though I do think there is little doubt Abreu will win ROY. Tough season to be a rookie. Betances and Yordano Ventura were great.

[majordanby]

what's going to hurt sale is that he pitched 60 innings less compared to hernandez and kluber. That's a lot.

[Runscott]

Regardless of whether or not Kershaw gets the MVP, he is the MVP

AL MVP- Mike Trout
NL MVP- Clayton Kershaw
AL CY Young- Kluber
NL Cy Young- Clayton Kershaw
AL Rookie of the Year- Jose Abreu
NL Rookie of the Year - no idea
...and I'll add: AL Manager of the Year - Lloyd McClendon

Regarding the AL Cy Young, we are going to the Mariners' season-ender with Felix pitching...we are hoping the game counts and McClendon lets him pitch. I'm hoping he tosses a gem and edges out Kluber. McClendon is too practical, though - if the game doesn't count, but Kluber has a slight edge, I still don't think Felix gets his start.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Regardless of whether or not Kershaw gets the MVP, he is the MVP

AL MVP- Mike Trout
NL MVP- Clayton Kershaw
AL CY Young- Kluber
NL Cy Young- Clayton Kershaw
AL Rookie of the Year- Jose Abreu
NL Rookie of the Year - no idea
...and I'll add: AL Manager of the Year - Lloyd McClendon

Regarding the AL Cy Young, we are going to the Mariners' season-ender with Felix pitching...we are hoping the game counts and McClendon lets him pitch. I'm hoping he tosses a gem and edges out Kluber. McClendon is too practical, though - if the game doesn't count, but Kluber has a slight edge, I still don't think Felix gets his start.

Love seeing the Seattle guy chose Kluber! I've been watching him all year here in Cleveburg, and he's been incredible. Personally, I think it all hinges on their last starts; right now I'd call it a toss-up and Felix has the name.

As for this personal race, it's a good thing Kluber is pitching tonight. If the Tribe gets eliminated today, Klube doesn't pitch tomorrow or Sunday.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Love seeing the Seattle guy chose Kluber! I've been watching him all year here in Cleveburg, and he's been incredible. Personally, I think it all hinges on their last starts; right now I'd call it a toss-up and Felix has the name.

As for this personal race, it's a good thing Kluber is pitching tonight. If the Tribe gets eliminated today, Klube doesn't pitch tomorrow or Sunday.

It will be a very interesting finish. I just hope Felix pitches Sunday and has to perform to earn the Cy Young. You know - a no-hitter!

[earlywynnfan]

One thing I look for is how they perform at the end of the season, with playoff hopes on the line. Kluber's last 5 starts: 5-0, 1.12 ERA.

I know Felix had a crummy start recently, and that was my knock against him when he won the CY a couple years ago. If he can step up and pitch a great game Sunday, with playoffs on the line, this vote should be VERY interesting!

[clydepepper]

NL Cy Young - Kershaw (but not unanimously...Cueto, Wainwright)
NL MVP- Kershaw or MCutcheon (with a nod to Harrison)
NL ROY- Alex Wood, Braves (on a bad team with a good pitching staff, he was the best for them in the second half) (11-11, 2.78, 170K)

AL Cy Young - Greg Holland- followed closely by Kluber, Felix, Weaver, Scherzer

AL MVP- Trout or Victor Martinez (only because Trout leads the MAJORS in strikeouts* and his BA is about to drop under .290)

AL Rookie- Abreu (should be unanimous)

* Strikeouts, in spite of their overwhelming acceptance, are wasted, unproductive ABs - and do nothing to help the team. When you strikeout close to 1/3 of your ABs, you can't be MVP unanimously. IMO
?
There was talk on the radio broadcast that MLB may be considering restricting the use of defensive shifts because they are worried about the drop in offense. How ridiculous is that?!

That drop is caused by everyone being pull-crazy and trying to hit over the shift instead of away from it. If players would get back to hitting the ball up the middle or at least going with where it is pitched, offenses would pick up. It should also be noted that as the strikeouts rise, bases-on-balls have fallen. Another skill young players aren't being taught anymore.
?

[Stetson_1883]

I'm pulling for Kluber as he went to my alma mater, Stetson University.

It's amazing how this guy basically came out of no where.

[majordanby]

what a way to end the season for kluber - that's how you leave a lasting impression.

[novakjr]

AL MVP: Trout...I do think Vmart should win it(despite the DH factor), and Nelson Cruz should get some serious consideration(we'll see how the suspension last year effects the votes for him). BUT I do think it will be given to Trout. Possibly based on his last 3 seasons, because based on this season alone it's really up in the air..
AL CY: Felix...Although I'm seriously rooting for Kluber to get it. And would like Jon Lester to get a little more credit than he's been getting..
AL ROY: Abreu, with Tanaka right there.. I'd really like a separate award for these import pseudo-rookies though, so it can be given to a true rookie...
NL MVP: I really think Kershaw will get it... but I'm not sure how to view Stanton. Will missing this past month hurt him? OR will the voters show some sympathy after getting hit in the face? Which also pretty much ended any chance MIA had of a playoff push, so you really can't pull the non-contender card, because they were contending.
NL CY: DUH!!! Kershaw, anyone even thinking about anyone else is kidding themselves..
NL ROY: Degrom would get it from me. Although I'm not really sure how the voters will treat Hamilton. Sure his SBs are nice, but he's seemingly fallen off a cliff, and is really proving to pretty much be a one trick pony...

[rats60]

NL MVP McCutchen
NL CY Kershaw
NL ROY deGrom

AL MVP Trout
AL CY Kluber
AL ROY Abreu

[the 'stache]

No way does McCutchen get the MVP again. He won it last year, and last year was a gift. One of the statistically worse seasons by an MVP winner in the last 40 years. I mean he didn't lead the league in a single category.

2013 .317, 97 runs, 21 HR, 84 RBI. 911 OPS
2014 .314, 88 runs, 25 HR, 82 RBI, .953 OPS

He leads in OBP and OPS this year, but that's still not an MVP season. The OPS is nice, but the old fashioned stats are nothing special. I really like Andrew McCutchen, but are we just going to start handing out the award to guys who have good seasons? Paul Goldschmidt deserved it last year, and either Kershaw or Stanton deserves it this year.

Kershaw 21-3, 1.77 ERA, 6 CG, 239 K, 10.8 K/9 IP, 7.71:1 K:BB

That's about as dominant as it gets.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

One thing I look for is how they perform at the end of the season, with playoff hopes on the line. Kluber's last 5 starts: 5-0, 1.12 ERA.

I know Felix had a crummy start recently, and that was my knock against him when he won the CY a couple years ago. If he can step up and pitch a great game Sunday, with playoffs on the line, this vote should be VERY interesting!

Did you see where McClendon got Torre to actually lower Felix' ERA? They reversed a bunt hit to an error on Felix, taking off 4 ER's from last Tuesday's start - dropped his ERA from 2.34 to 2.17

That, and performing today, could be big. The Rangers/A's game starts 1 hr before the Mariners.

[majordanby]

goldschmidt didnt win it last year because his team didnt make the playoffs. the BBWA value players with "good" seasons that make the playoffs more than players with better numbers (gold had a nice year, but his numbers were not jump out of the page spectacular) but whose team stunk.

some will defend mccutchen's mvp award last year because he plays a more demanding position (center field), plays good defense at that position, has value on the basepaths, and his non traditional stats are a better reflection of his overall value to the team (e.g. WAR).

Originally Posted by the 'stache

No way does McCutchen get the MVP again. He won it last year, and last year was a gift. One of the statistically worse seasons by an MVP winner in the last 40 years. I mean he didn't lead the league in a single category.

2013 .317, 97 runs, 21 HR, 84 RBI. 911 OPS
2014 .314, 88 runs, 25 HR, 82 RBI, .953 OPS

He leads in OBP and OPS this year, but that's still not an MVP season. The OPS is nice, but the old fashioned stats are nothing special. I really like Andrew McCutchen, but are we just going to start handing out the award to guys who have good seasons? Paul Goldschmidt deserved it last year, and either Kershaw or Stanton deserves it this year.

Kershaw 21-3, 1.77 ERA, 6 CG, 239 K, 10.8 K/9 IP, 7.71:1 K:BB

That's about as dominant as it gets.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Did you see where McClendon got Torre to actually lower Felix' ERA? They reversed a bunt hit to an error on Felix, taking off 4 ER's from last Tuesday's start - dropped his ERA from 2.34 to 2.17

That, and performing today, could be big. The Rangers/A's game starts 1 hr before the Mariners.

Well, Felix did the same thing Kluber did: pitch an awesome last game trying to get his team into the playoffs.

I have not looked up any of Felix's starts, so I'm not able to make a fair, impartial judgement, but in Kluber's 9 losses his offense scored 18 runs. That just sucks for any pitcher.

Again, this should be about the closest CY vote I've seen in a long time!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Well, Felix did the same thing Kluber did: pitch an awesome last game trying to get his team into the playoffs.

I have not looked up any of Felix's starts, so I'm not able to make a fair, impartial judgement, but in Kluber's 9 losses his offense scored 18 runs. That just sucks for any pitcher.

Again, this should be about the closest CY vote I've seen in a long time!

Felix was untouchable today - ended up winning the ERA title at 2.14. Kluber is the strikeouts king, and won/lost is close to a draw, with win % edge to Felix.

Definitely the only two in the mix. Tough call.

I picked up a game-used ball today: Trout foul ball off Felix during a strikeout at bat. Cy Young pitch to MVP would be a good game souvenir.

I am getting refunded $600 for playoff tickets - yippee!!!

[Runscott]

Hopefully, here are two of them. Pics from centerfield: Felix warming up before the game, Trout during the game.

Also, pic of Michael Saunders hitting his first double, which went 'through' Trout. Tough catch for anyone, but Trout makes it normally.

[mart8081]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Well, Felix did the same thing Kluber did: pitch an awesome last game trying to get his team into the playoffs.

I have not looked up any of Felix's starts, so I'm not able to make a fair, impartial judgement, but in Kluber's 9 losses his offense scored 18 runs. That just sucks for any pitcher.

Again, this should be about the closest CY vote I've seen in a long time!

Will start this by saying both had excellent seasons.

Run Support per game for the two across the entire season:

Kluber 4.35
Hernandez 4.29

Fairly close but a lot of the run support for Felix came in only a few games (run support in 5 of those 15 wins were 10, 12, 10, 12 and 11). That emans of the 146 runs Seattle scored with Felix in the game 55 came in five starts - the ramining 29 starts he received 91 runs of support or 3.13 per game. hence you need to consider:

Three no-decisions in games in which he allowed zero runs.
Four no-decisions and a loss when he allowed one run.
Two no-decisions and two losses when he allowed two runs.

So zero wins and three losses in those nine games. You could expect to win 7+ of those starts with no losses - so his win line could read 22-3. Edge Felix?

WHIP = a wide margin:

Kluber 1.09
Hernandez 0.92

Hernandez has the lower ERA (even with the tampering this week).

There was also the MLB record 16 game streak of 7 IP of 3 or less runs scored.

I would be stunned if Kluber won.

[earlywynnfan]

I wouldn't consider .06 runs per game "fairly close." What's that, 2 runs over the entire season?

Kluber had 7 games of 2 runs or less where he got 2 losses and 5 ND's, including the famous Ryan Raburn game.

And don't forget many people's darling stat right now: WAR. Kluber is 3rd in the entire league, tops for pitchers, a full game over Felix at 7.5 to 6.4.

Kluber's ERA+ is also lower, which adjusts for park differentials. (Seattle is a MUCH better pitcher's park than Tribe Stadium.)

I think Felix gets it because the stats are so close and Felix has the history. But I'd be stunned if it isn't close.

Ken

PS: By the way, Seattle fans, we got Kluber's seasons for over $22,000,000 less than you got Felix's!! I have to taunt you now, because in a couple of years, we won't be able to afford Kluber and he'll be pitching for the yankees or Angels.

[mart8081]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I wouldn't consider .06 runs per game "fairly close." What's that, 2 runs over the entire season?

Kluber had 7 games of 2 runs or less where he got 2 losses and 5 ND's, including the famous Ryan Raburn game.

And don't forget many people's darling stat right now: WAR. Kluber is 3rd in the entire league, tops for pitchers, a full game over Felix at 7.5 to 6.4.

Kluber's ERA+ is also lower, which adjusts for park differentials. (Seattle is a MUCH better pitcher's park than Tribe Stadium.)

I think Felix gets it because the stats are so close and Felix has the history. But I'd be stunned if it isn't close.

Ken

PS: By the way, Seattle fans, we got Kluber's seasons for over $22,000,000 less than you got Felix's!! I have to taunt you now, because in a couple of years, we won't be able to afford Kluber and he'll be pitching for the yankees or Angels.

Ken,

I think you've taken the WAR figures prior to the update for last nights games. Felix climbed to 6.7.

Also looking at ERA+ Felix is at 170 (trailing Kershaw 197 and Sale 178) with Kluber on 150:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

Kluber does lead in FIP but Hernandez leads almost all other Sabermetric stats.

PS - Will add I am a Mariners fan!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I think Felix gets it because the stats are so close and Felix has the history. But I'd be stunned if it isn't close.

I think the 'history' thing might actually work in Kluber's favor - if the fans were voting, I agree with you.

[D. Bergin]

I noticed King Felix only threw 68 pitches in his last start. Just enough to get the decision and secure the ERA title.

Also noticed that, not only was King Felix gifted several runs off his ERA, but they kind of boned Kluber a couple weeks ago on several runs, by reversing an error call on Avile, that for all intents and purposes, looked like a play a Little Leaguer could have made.

That's a bit of a swing in several of the stats that have been mentioned.

Leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

Then again I don't think I'd have been entirely happy with Chris Sale winning the ERA title with 60 less innings pitched then Hernandez and Kluber.

[earlywynnfan]

Anyone know when they announce this?

One last thing about Kluber (I hope!): He was far more dominant this season than either Lee or Sabathia when they won their CY. That's why I'm bummed that Felix decided to have an incredible season at the same time.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I noticed King Felix only threw 68 pitches in his last start. Just enough to get the decision and secure the ERA title.

Also noticed that, not only was King Felix gifted several runs off his ERA, but they kind of boned Kluber a couple weeks ago on several runs, by reversing an error call on Avile, that for all intents and purposes, looked like a play a Little Leaguer could have made.

That's a bit of a swing in several of the stats that have been mentioned.

Leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

Then again I don't think I'd have been entirely happy with Chris Sale winning the ERA title with 60 less innings pitched then Hernandez and Kluber.

I don't see the same nefariousness of intent that you are pointing out. Felix wanted to keep pitching and if the A's had not won, he would have kept pitching - the postseason was the main thing on everyone's mind. Felix got bombed by Toronto last week - it was actually more a chance of hurting his Cy Young chances by even letting him start, but, as I said, the postseason was foremost in everyone's mind. They aren't like us - concentrating on evil intent, politics and statistics. In addition, McLendon frequently pulls his starters after 5 or 6 innings, simply because he has the best reliever staff in the Major Leagues, but in this case it made sense for other reasons: Felix gets to walk off the field to the fan's applause (same thing McLendon did for Cano 1 batter later), and while it does secure the ERA title and a better shot at the Cy Young, as PHENOMENAL as he was pitching, he could very well have gotten a complete game 1-hitter, and a few more strikeouts. That would probably have locked up the Cy Young.

But fortunately Net54 members don't get to vote. Could you imagine what the HOF would look like if we did?

[howard38]

Originally Posted by mart8081

Will start this by saying both had excellent seasons.

Run Support per game for the two across the entire season:

Kluber 4.35
Hernandez 4.29

Fairly close but a lot of the run support for Felix came in only a few games (run support in 5 of those 15 wins were 10, 12, 10, 12 and 11). That emans of the 146 runs Seattle scored with Felix in the game 55 came in five starts - the ramining 29 starts he received 91 runs of support or 3.13 per game. hence you need to consider:

Three no-decisions in games in which he allowed zero runs.
Four no-decisions and a loss when he allowed one run.
Two no-decisions and two losses when he allowed two runs.

So zero wins and three losses in those nine games. You could expect to win 7+ of those starts with no losses - so his win line could read 22-3. Edge Felix?

WHIP = a wide margin:

Kluber 1.09
Hernandez 0.92

Hernandez has the lower ERA (even with the tampering this week).

There was also the MLB record 16 game streak of 7 IP of 3 or less runs scored.

I would be stunned if Kluber won.

Hernandez's streak was even better than that...it was two runs or less. Amazing but I still wouldn't be surprised if Kluber won.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Anyone know when they announce this?

One last thing about Kluber (I hope!): He was far more dominant this season than either Lee or Sabathia when they won their CY. That's why I'm bummed that Felix decided to have an incredible season at the same time.

In today's paper: voters have to have their ballots turned in before the post-season begins (today), and the announcement of the winner is November 12.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

In today's paper: voters have to have their ballots turned in before the post-season begins (today), and the announcement of the winner is November 12.

I guess that gives us 6 weeks to argue. I don't know if I can sustain that!!

[Runscott]

I have faith in everyone involved in the discussion

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[clydepepper]

The 1945 Phillies were 46-and-108

My cousin, in his last year in majors, was 0-7
(but he was 22-10 for the Dodgers in '41).

...but, Jimmie Foxx, yes that one, was 1-and-0 !

as Casey used to say, 'You can look it up!'

As far as Indians' pitchers are concerned- While I really think Kluber had the best season and should win, my personal tastes run to the southpaws Sabathia, who played here in Columbus albeit briefly, and Lee whose windup is so smooth and precise...I'd definitely pay to see him pitch!

Floyd Bannister came through Columbus many moons ago and had a real graceful windup too.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

AL MVP - Trout
NL MVP - Kershaw

AL CY - Sale
NL CY - Kershaw

[Runscott]

Alex, that's going to be a tough Sale.

[Runscott]

Mike Trout was nice enough to pose for this photo with my girlfriend and myself .

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by majordanby

goldschmidt didnt win it last year because his team didnt make the playoffs. the BBWA value players with "good" seasons that make the playoffs more than players with better numbers (gold had a nice year, but his numbers were not jump out of the page spectacular) but whose team stunk.

some will defend mccutchen's mvp award last year because he plays a more demanding position (center field), plays good defense at that position, has value on the basepaths, and his non traditional stats are a better reflection of his overall value to the team (e.g. WAR).

I understand why Goldschmidt didn't win it. The main reason that Braun didn't win it in 2012 was because the Brewers didn't make the playoffs. I don't think the positive test in 2011 had as much of an impact as people let on. He was tested a lot more in 2012, and had no injuries that would necessitated anything to accelerate healing. His numbers overall were better than they were in 2011 when he did win it, though his WAR was a little lower because he wasn't as good in the outfield. Braun was chasing his own Triple Crown until the last week of the season. Ultimately it was the batting average that cost him, as he ended up third in batting. He lost the RBI title on the last day of the season when Headley got 2 more RBI. Braun ended up leading the NL In runs scored, home runs, OPS and total bases. Buster Posey won the batting title and led the NL in OPS +. And he had the same kind of narrative McCutchen would have in 2013, the feel good story. Posey was coming back from that terrible broken leg when he had his MVP season. McCutchen won it in large part because the Pirates were making the playoffs for the first time in forever.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Alex, that's going to be a tough Sale.

I know but I think he deserves it.

[the 'stache]

Chris Sale for Cy Young?

Hmm, that's really interesting. To be honest, Alex, I haven't looked at Sale's numbers in quite a while. Wow, what an outstanding season he's had. He's had a pretty spectacular start to his career, too. That reminds me, I need to buy his Bowman Chrome prospect auto before it starts to skyrocket like Kershaw's.

Question for you guys. I know that when the MVP candidates are being considered for the award, their team's making or not making the playoffs has a huge impact on whether or not they receive serious consideration for the award. But I don't know, historically speaking, if the same holds true for Cy Young voting.

Sale's White Sox finished at 73-89, so they were not in the playoff chase. But from a numbers standpoint, he's right there with King Felix.

Felix Hernandez: 15-6 (.714), 2.14 ERA, 248 K, 46 BB, 0.915 WHIP, 6.5 H/9 IP, 9.5 K/9 IP, 1.8 BB/9 IP, 5.39 K:BB, 2.56 FIP, 170 ERA+
Chris Sale: 12-4 (.750), 2.17 ERA, 208 K, 39 BB, 0.966 WHIP, 6.7 H/9 IP, 10.8 K/9 IP, 2.0 BB/9 IP, 5.33 K:BB, 2.57 FIP, 178 ERA+

Their numbers are remarkably close. They have nearly identical ERA, hits per 9 IP, walks per 9 IP, and FIP. Hernandez has more strikeouts, but Sale's strikeout rate per 9 IP is higher by more than a strikeout. But Hernandez has a very slight edge in both hits and walks per 9 IP, so his WHIP is better, 0.915 vs 0.966.

Hernandez has thrown 62 more innings. How does that weigh? You look at their metrics, which are both incredibly close-does a voter then think to himself "well, Hernandez was able to maintain that excellence while basically pitching 7 more games worth of innings.

I don't know. Seattle didn't make the playoffs, either, but they just missed, where the White Sox weren't close.

I think Hernandez wins the Cy Young, but Sale is right there with him. That could be the most interesting vote out of the four.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I give the edge to Sale because Hernandez plays in a pitcher's park. Team standings doesn't seem to be as big of a deal as it used to (ex: Zach Greinke).

[Runscott]

It's been mentioned already, but 'innings pitched' will hurt Sales. These days, 235 innings (both Kluber and Felix) is a big deal, as a lot of pitchers begin breaking down late in the season - Felix' 2nd-to-last start is a good example.

I sure hope you guys are watching the KC/Oakland game - not one to be missed.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

...
Question for you guys. I know that when the MVP candidates are being considered for the award, their team's making or not making the playoffs has a huge impact on whether or not they receive serious consideration for the award. But I don't know, historically speaking, if the same holds true for Cy Young voting.

Historically, no.

[howard38]

Question for you guys. I know that when the MVP candidates are being considered for the award, their team's making or not making the playoffs has a huge impact on whether or not they receive serious consideration for the award. But I don't know, historically speaking, if the same holds true for Cy Young voting.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When first created the Cy Young award plaque noted that it was awarded to the "most valuable" pitcher and for many years almost every winner was on a post-season team or at least fairly close. Some time in the 1980s the wording was changed to "outstanding" pitcher. Pitchers on post-season teams still won the bulk of the awards but it's not unusual now to see guys on also-rans like Greinke and Hernandez win it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by howard38

Some time in the 1980s the wording was changed to "outstanding" pitcher. Pitchers on post-season teams still won the bulk of the awards but it's not unusual now to see guys on also-rans like Greinke and Hernandez win it.

Possibly because they finally realized there already is a 'most valuable player' award.

Also, the team's performance (run production) is going to more adversely affect a pitcher's statistics, than it will a potential MVP field player. So basically, it's going to be difficult to give the Cy Young to a playoff pitcher who has worse stats than a guy on a non-playoff team - not only will the statistical differences be glaring, but also the fact that the poorer pitcher had better run production behind him, yet still had worse stats.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Possibly because they finally realized there already is a 'most valuable player' award.

Also, the team's performance (run production) is going to more adversely affect a pitcher's statistics, than it will a potential MVP field player. So basically, it's going to be difficult to give the Cy Young to a playoff pitcher who has worse stats than a guy on a non-playoff team - not only will the statistical differences be glaring, but also the fact that the poorer pitcher had better run production behind him, yet still had worse stats.

I agree with that. In 1972 for example there was no way any pennant winning pitcher was going to win the CY Young award over Steve Carlton. I think being on a winner was used more as a "tie-breaker" like Early Wynn over Sam Jones in 1959 or Vern Law over Ernie Broglio in 1960. With todays advanced stats it's harder to justify denying the award to a pitcher on a poor team simply because he had less run support to work with.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by howard38

I agree with that. In 1972 for example there was no way any pennant winning pitcher was going to win the CY Young award over Steve Carlton. I think being on a winner was used more as a "tie-breaker" like Early Wynn over Sam Jones in 1959 or Vern Law over Ernie Broglio in 1960. With todays advanced stats it's harder to justify denying the award to a pitcher on a poor team simply because he had less run support to work with.

Win/Loss is one of he flukiest things ever. But sometimes, you can get a great guage on just how good a guy was when he's still raking in the wins for a bad team. You can also get a real feel for how well he's pitching in tight games..

I think that's one of the reasons that Cliff Lee's 2008 season was so special. Dude went 22-3 with a 2.54 era for a team that only won 81 games. Although, I will admit that that teams issue really wasn't offense, but rather a total lack of pitching beyond cliff.. One of the things with teams that aren't contending though, is that a pitcher may tend to lose focus or not care as much down the stretch, when the games are meaningless.

On the flipside, look at Kevin Millwood's 2005 season.. Led the AL in era at 2.86, but somehow only had a 9-11 record... Now just looking at that, you would naturally assume that he was just pitching for a terrible team... And you would have assumed wrong... That was for a 93 win team.. Meanwhile on that same team, Scott Elarton goes 11-9 with a 4.61 era. and Cliff Lee goes 18-5 with a 3.79 era(almost a run worse than Millwood).

[howard38]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Win/Loss is one of he flukiest things ever. But sometimes, you can get a great guage on just how good a guy was when he's still raking in the wins for a bad team. You can also get a real feel for how well he's pitching in tight games..

I think that's one of the reasons that Cliff Lee's 2008 season was so special. Dude went 22-3 with a 2.54 era for a team that only won 81 games. Although, I will admit that that teams issue really wasn't offense, but rather a total lack of pitching beyond cliff.. One of the things with teams that aren't contending though, is that a pitcher may tend to lose focus or not care as much down the stretch, when the games are meaningless.

On the flipside, look at Kevin Millwood's 2005 season.. Led the AL in era at 2.86, but somehow only had a 9-11 record... Now just looking at that, you would naturally assume that he was just pitching for a terrible team... And you would have assumed wrong... That was for a 93 win team.. Meanwhile on that same team, Scott Elarton goes 11-9 with a 4.61 era. and Cliff Lee goes 18-5 with a 3.79 era(almost a run worse than Millwood).

Millwood is a great example of how overrated wins are. He went to Texas the next year and won sixteen games. He didn't suddenly become a better pitcher, in fact his ERA ballooned to 4.52 but he was on a slightly better hitting team and had much better luck.

[Stetson_1883]

I just have to give props to my alma mater Stetson University for having two of their products win some prestigious post season awards.

Congrats Jacob DeGrom and Corey Kluber!

[barrysloate]

Stetson University was the answer to a Jeopardy question just yesterday:

What Florida college was named after a hat manufacturer?