One hell of a new member introduction story

[mgerton]

./wave

Hey everyone, I'm Matt.

Good, now that the introductions are over, grab some popcorn, or get ready to take your post-lunch potty break, because like I said in the title, Ive got something that I am VERY VERY excited about to share with everyone.

I recently got back into collecting sports cards and memorabilia. While talking to my father one day, he tells me that he has three "old baseball cards, well, kind of baseball cards" that he had been holding on to and wanted me to look at. I am over at their apartment one day, and he brings these out in a jewelry box, wrapped in some newspaper. Three season tickets from 1869 and 1870. I immediately knew they were and are significant, but had no idea how significant these three tickets potentially are.

These have been in my family's possession since originally issued. My father's maternal line, the Curtis', emigrated from England in the early 1700s, and lived in the New York and New Jersey area well into the early - mid 1900s. My grandmother got these from the estate of her Great Aunt, and gave them to my father. The Curtis named on the front of the tickets is, without digging out my father's family tree research, is by my rough estimate, a 5x Great relative.

MY father told me that 15+ years ago he tried to have them researched and appraised, but the mass availability of information today is not what it was back then. All he could tell me, other than that they decided to just hold on to them, was that one of the tickets was from a team who eventually became a major league team. That was enough to spark my own research interest, so down the rabbit hole I went.

Of the three tickets, the ticket for the Union Baseball club, aka "The Troy Haymakers," is the most significant. While not a precursor to a current MLB team, they were indeed one of the original seven teams who broke away from the National Association in 1870 to found the National Association of *Proffesional* Baseball players. What is even more important about this particular ticket, is that in the season of 1869, the Haymakers were one of 12 teams to participate in the first ever official Pennant Race, making this a ticket to a team who played in (arguably) the first ever season of "professional sports."

At that point, The real kicker to the story came when I found this article ( which has been shared on here obviously! ). The gentleman found a season ticket dating from 1871-ish, to which the Cooperstown acknowledged was older than anything that they knew of, or had in their possession, as of 2011.

https://www.theday.com/state/2011051...setts-auction/

An excerpt from a textbook, Ticket Operations and Sales Management in Sports, pub. 2013, shows an image of, and lists a single game ticket to the Red Stockings on July 1st, 1869, now in the possession of Cooperstown as the oldest known baseball ticket.

https://fitpublishing.com/sites/defa...r_1excerpt.pdf


Given the information in the article and excerpt, and that because these are season tickets, they were likely (and also likely unprovably) printed at some point in the year BEFORE the ticket to the Red Stockings game mentioned above, I would like to posture that unless any other new, old, definitavely baseball GAME and not ball / dance / fundraiser / etc. tickets have emerged, that I have now located the new, oldest known tickets.

After finding that article and excerpt, and realizing that we potentially had the oldest known tickets, I actually got in touch with Cooperstown about possibly loaning these tickets for exhibition. Our offer was "graciously declined" as they said they did not have room currently, or plans in the near future to change the exhibits where a spot for these would open up.

So, in conclusion, I would like to present to you three of, if not THE, oldest known baseball tickets in existence.

[philliesfan]

Welcome........and WOW Just amazing! Very nice find and a true piece of baseball history. Congrats!
Thanks for sharing!
Bob

[oldjudge]

Grand match tickets are from 1863

[mgerton]

I have read some about and seen the debate as to whether Grand Match tickets were to a crickett match, where by accounts a game of baseball was played, or tickets to a baseball game. I just know that these are at least the earliest definitive baseball game tickets. But I am no scholar, and I relish learning!

[tiger8mush]

Very cool, thanks for sharing! I especially like the drawing on the Putnam ticket. Congrats on a neat find and welcome to the forum

[philliesfan]

I as going to make an offer for the Putnam ticket, but it will not work as the ticket is Non-Transferable.

[CurtisFlood]

Welcome, nice first post as well.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by mgerton

I have read some about and seen the debate as to whether Grand Match tickets were to a crickett match, where by accounts a game of baseball was played, or tickets to a baseball game. I just know that these are at least the earliest definitive baseball game tickets. But I am no scholar, and I relish learning!

The best place to see the history of the Grand Match tickets is to look on the REA website for Rob Lifson’s original descriptions. The Grand Match involved both baseball and cricket but they are technically tickets to a baseball game.

[trdcrdkid]

The "E G Curtis" who owned two of these membership cards (and presumably also the third) must be Edward Gansevoort Curtis, who was a member of the Victory Base Ball Club of Troy when it was organized in 1859. He was the team's pitcher in 1859 and the early part of the 1860 season. See pages 50 and 52 below, from Peter Morris's article on the Victory Club in "Base Ball Pioneers, 1850-1870", including an enlargement of Morris's capsule biography of Curtis. Despite Morris's statement that Curtis moved to Washington after graduating from Rensselaer Polytechnic, he must have still been living in Troy in 1869-71, when the membership cards date from. However, the 1900 U.S. Census shows him living in Washington DC as Edward G. Curtis, born October 1837 in New York, listed as a civil engineer living in a boarding house, and single. Despite Morris's statement that he died in Washington, Curtis is buried in Green-Wood cemetery in Brooklyn. (See https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...sevoort-curtis)





As for the membership cards, the Unions of Lansingburgh, aka the Troy Haymakers, succeeded the Victory Club as Troy's premier team after the Civil War, and soon went professional. In 1868 they joined the National Association of Base Ball Players, and in 1869 (the year of the membership card) they had a record of 24-9-1, including a record of 12-8-1 against professional clubs. See the first page below, from Marshall D. Wright's "The National Association of Base Ball Players, 1857-1870". As noted by the OP, in 1871 the Unions were one of the charter members of the National Association of *Professional* Base Ball Players, considered the first professional sports league in the United States.

The Putnam Base Ball Club was also from Troy, New York, but it was an amateur club, and not a member of the National Association of Base Ball Players, as the Unions of Lansingburgh were. The Unions played the Putnams three times in 1870, beating them 59-17 on June 4, 13-5 on September 28, and 45-9 on October 17. See the second page below, also from the Wright book. These are the only records I can find of the Putnams playing any National Association teams, but they obviously must have been around in 1869 and 1871, presumably playing other local amateur teams. (Note: There was another Putnam Base Ball Club that was from Brooklyn, active from 1855 to 1860, but which is not heard of after 1862. William Ryczek has a detailed article on them in the book "Base Ball Founders", pp. 111-117.)

[RCMcKenzie]

So, the OP is related to Herman Melville, that's pretty cool. That IS one helluva intro post. I think I'd keep those tickets in the family.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

So, the OP is related to Herman Melville, that's pretty cool. That IS one helluva intro post. I think I'd keep those tickets in the family.

+1 Agreed WOW

[Leon]

Great first post and well done again, David!
.

[mgerton]

David,

Thank you SO, SO much for that information. With you doxxing who E.G was, now i get to start pulling the geaneology thread to figure out what my actual relation to EG is.

Also to everyone else, I am disappointed in you all. I was just telling a friend about the information David shared, and given the Herman Melville connection, he said "Wow! That is a Whale of a tale!!!!" How did you all miss such an excellent pun-portunity?!?!?! ������

[chadeast]

And now we've intersected with the recent White Whale thread and Scott's very cool "Essex and the Whale" card quite nicely! Join us for Melville week, here at net54.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...7&postcount=65