Auction Item returned to seller. This ever happen to you?

[whiteymet]

Hi All:

As many of you know I consigned some of my Richie Ashburn collection to Huggins and Scott. The first auction ended and the next one is underway.

One of my better items, his game used glove was just returned to me because the buyer did not pay for it and another item (not mine) that he won in the auction. See the listing here:

http://jan11.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=29390


My dilemma is what to do next. H&S suggested I rerun the glove in their May auction and told me they would note why it is being relisted and suggested in the past when they have done this they have actually received higher bids.

Has this happened to any of you? If so what was the result?

If not, I am interested in any ideas on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Fred

[slidekellyslide]

That's too bad...would have been a great item for the upcoming Hunt's Auction which is 100% phillies stuff including the Robin Roberts family collection.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Don't auction houses go after nonpaying bidders?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't auction houses go after nonpaying bidders?

I would hope so. I can't imagine the amount of shill bidding that would go on if a winning bidder didn't have to pay, though I imagine it would drive up consignments.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would hope so too, but it appears that Fred was told he is out of luck because the bidder didn't pay. That seems a very unhappy situation for a consignor and a risk that perhaps he shouldn't have to bear?

[alanu]

I would think the consigner would be given the option of:

-being paid for the item at the bid amount, thereby allowing the auction house to relist the item at their own risk of getting more or less the next auction... keeping in mind they have the final value fee in their favor

-relisting the item in a future auction

In any case, I hope the auction house gave you a courtesy of a phone call explaining the situation.

-Alan

[MGHPro]

I'd call Hunt auctions tomorrow and see if they'll take it as a late addition. There's still plenty of time for bidders to bid if you overnight it to them
Matt

[ksabet]

I used to work for Bill and Josh and have seen and heard them confront deadbeat bidders (not pretty). They go out of their way to please consignors and most likely did everything in their power in this situation. I assume that similar to EBAY you can ban someone and block them from bidding but can not force them to pay.

Holding an item would seem to only complicates things so returning it and offering the next auction seems reasonable.

Lastly I am not sure but I don't think a single auction house would purchase items from consignors due to non-paying bidders as a rule of thumb, if this was the case it would promote shill bidding even further as consignors could drive up the price and know the auction house would bail them out.

I witnessed 1500 lot auctions where only 1-2 items were not paid for so I think this was an unfortunate albeit rare occurrence.

[jcmtiger]

I don't know if auction houses do this, but why not offer to the next highest bidder?

Joe

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I used to work for Bill and Josh and have seen and heard them confront deadbeat bidders (not pretty). They go out of their way to please consignors and most likely did everything in their power in this situation. I assume that similar to EBAY you can ban someone and block them from bidding but can not force them to pay.

If I was a shill bidder, I'd gladly tolerate a yelling. If major auction houses are using eBay as the measuring stick for anything, we're in trouble. I'm pretty sure major auction houses have legal recourse to go after the winning bidder they chose to do so.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Matt

If I was a shill bidder, I'd gladly tolerate a yelling. If major auction houses are using eBay as the measuring stick for anything, we're in trouble. I'm pretty sure major auction houses have legal recourse to go after the winning bidder they chose to do so.

I never said EBAY was the measuring stick, I never said they used "yelling" as a tactic and for clarification I am NOT speaking on behalf of the auction house. Everything I stated was purely my own speculation. I just know people have a ton of excuses and it seems not worth the battle on a "his word" argument.

You still have the item, relist with them or another auction house the only cost is your time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Matt

I'm pretty sure major auction houses have legal recourse to go after the winning bidder they chose to do so.

Yes it's called a breach of contract claim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Lastly I am not sure but I don't think a single auction house would purchase items from consignors due to non-paying bidders as a rule of thumb, if this was the case it would promote shill bidding even further as consignors could drive up the price and know the auction house would bail them out.

.

I don't understand this point, if the consignor wins the lot due to his own shill bidding then there is no one to pay or to bail out? Maybe i am missing the point.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I don't know if auction houses do this, but why not offer to the next highest bidder?

Joe

I was wondering the same thing. I have had a couple of auctions on ebay where the winning bidder never paid and I offered it to the next highest bidder at his bid price. I know ebay auction and an auction house auction are not exactly the same but was this tried? If the seller was ok with it, it seems like that might be one way of resolving the matter.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by alanu

I would think the consigner would be given the option of:

-being paid for the item at the bid amount, thereby allowing the auction house to relist the item at their own risk of getting more or less the next auction... keeping in mind they have the final value fee in their favor



-Alan

I was simply commenting on the above point, that an auction house should not pay for items at the hammer price if a bidder does not pay.

[scgaynor]

I don't know any auction houses that go after non paying bidders legally unless it is a very high value item. Usually people don't pay because they don't have the money so you can sue them all that you want, but you can't get blood from a stone. An auction house is not going to go through the time and expense of trying to get a judgement that they most likely won't collect on anyway.

Every once in a while an auction house will buy an item that was not paid for, but only for really good consignors or if the item went cheap anyway. My guess is that your contract probably states what happens if the buyer does not pay (I put it in my contract). The standard protocol is that the item is either resold or returned to the consignor.

Scott

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

I don't know any auction houses that go after non paying bidders legally unless it is a very high value item. Usually people don't pay because they don't have the money so you can sue them all that you want, but you can't get blood from a stone. An auction house is not going to go through the time and expense of trying to get a judgement that they most likely won't collect on anyway.

Every once in a while an auction house will buy an item that was not paid for, but only for really good consignors or if the item went cheap anyway. My guess is that your contract probably states what happens if the buyer does not pay (I put it in my contract). The standard protocol is that the item is either resold or returned to the consignor.

Scott

Thank you for so eloquently making the point I guess I was failing to articulate.

[whiteymet]

Just for everyone to know what happened, Huggins and Scott told me they did go after the bidder with no luck in contating them. No answer on phone, emails not responded to etc. I do not blame H&S for lack of trying.

I also asked them to contact the second high bidder, even though I have been told "this never works" by them and other auction houses. H&S did contact the underbidder and he was "nice enough" to counter by offering $2000 LESS than his bid. I guess you can't keep going down the line to other bidders, as where do you stop, and at what price do you want to let the item go for.

Funny thing is I won the glove originally years ago from Centerfield Collectibles who contacted me as the underbidder when the "winner" returned the glove because he could not tell it was Ashburn's. I on the other hand had photos of him holding the EXACT glove, so I knew it was legit.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't auction houses go after nonpaying bidders?

I know at least one auction posts on their website the names and I think even addresses of the deadbeats. Maybe the lawyers out there can tell me why everyone doesn't do this? Why can't they identify the names, lot# and whatever other detail helps. Wouldn't this add credibility ensuring they are at least putting some effort into guarding against shill bidding.

Dan

[FUBAR]

i would re-list the item and if you are paying any fees, then ask for a concession.

[Jewish-collector]

When the guy who won the Nuns' T-206 Wagner didn't pay, Heritage offered it to the underbidder.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...s-baseballcard

[ls7plus]

Hi, guys.

I am a lawyer in Michigan, and I can tell you that while bidding in the auction would constitute an acceptance of the auction's terms, and a subsequent failure to pay a breach of contract, it is quite often the case that any matter actually put into litigation results in 20 hours or even more of the lawyer's time, from the filing of the complaint to initiate the action, reviewing an answer, along with possibly responding to affirmative defenses if an answer is filed, perhaps attending a pre-trial conference with the court, filing motions of one sort or another before trial, engaging in discovery (written interrogatories or even depositions) in more complex cases, attending settlement conferences, and finally perhaps trial if the case is not settled before then. At hourly rates of $150-$200+ per hour, unless the item is a significantly valuable one, the costs incurred usually make such an action prohibitive from a plaintiff's standpoint (lawyers do not often take these kinds of cases on a contingency basis). Even if the action is filed and the defendant fails to answer, ultimately resulting in a default judgment being entered, the services of a collections attorney may ultimately have to be employed in addition to go out and find assest of the defendant, hence more legal fees (in Michigan, collections attorneys may ethically charge up to 50%, and bailiffs assisting them in excecution upon the defendant's assets also get a piece of the action). It's probably worth it if you have an item valued at at least $12,000-$15,000 or so, but cost-prohibitive otherwise.

Hope this helps,

Larry

[Matt]

Good to know. Sounds like it's pretty safe to shill bid up to $10k then.