Ebay as the shill bidder

[SMPEP]

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

I don't engage in shill bidding!! I don't like NON-PAYING BIDDERS the same as every other sellers. Get off of your high horse! You are wrong, and totally missing the point.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

The $37 bid is closer to where the auction should land. More so than the $20 which is a steal, or the level based upon a card one grade lower! Sounds like you need a lesson in basic economics! Or a VCP subscription. Maybe both.....

[bobbyw8469]

Real talk. And please quit PMing me!

[SMPEP]

Who cares what VCP says or what the card is worth? That is completely irrelevant to the topic.

The point is:

1) Ebay has a choice in how they choose to allow sellers to offer Second Chance Offers.

2) They could chose to have a Second Chance Offer that is one incremental unit above the next legitimate bid (which is the actual result that would have happened if the highest bid hadn't occurred) OR they could choose to use your maximum bid (to which they have insider information - unlike traditional shill bidders) and offer that price.

3) Ebay has chosen to abuse their inside knowledge, and offer it at your maximum price.

4) Now you have thrown out the red herring - that the buyer has a choice to accept the offer or not. Sure they do. But that is irrelevant. Ebay already knows the highest amount you are willing to pay for the card. You told them your highest price when you bid. (Again the inside information is key.)

5) You have also throw out the red herring that - you can negotiate with the seller. Sure. Maybe the seller will negotiate. Maybe they won't. But that's irrelevant. It's not the Seller's job to run a fair auction. That's EBay's job. That's why they get paid. The seller's job is to get the most money for their card. So the seller isn't doing anything wrong in offering the second chance at the buyer's maximum price. BUT they wouldn't have known that price if Ebay didn't tell them. Without the fraudulent bidder, the fair market price would have been one increment over the next highest bid - NOT the bidder's maximum bid. Again, it's EBay's obligation to run a fair auction. That would be the fair auction result.

6) You also throw out the red herring of "gee ... maybe there were other snipes that did not execute." Okay. Maybe. But what are the odds? 1 in 1,000 where you have this minority situation? 1 in 100? Certainly not much better than that. But what about the counter example. What if "gee .. no one else would have bid." Then explain how exactly what Ebay did isn't in effect EXACTLY the same as shill bidding. The buyer was pushed to the absolute highest price that they are willing to pay by fake bids. Because in essence Ebay is placing fake bids against your maximum bid price when they offer the second chance at your maximum price. And they have inside knowledge to do it! And they get to set their "highest" fake bid at the spot that pushes your maximum bid to the exact penny of your highest offer - which is worse than most shill bidding because they can't get quite that accurate.


And finally Bobby ... I PMed you to ask you to please ban me from your future auctions. I thought you would prefer that the public did not know that potential customers of yours are choosing not to deal with you because they doubt your character and ethics. I apologize for that mistake. I will not PM you again.


Patrick Prickett

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why does he have to ban you? You can just not bid. Seems like foolish drama.

[FourStrikes]

JMO, just fuck**g ditch the .99 opening bid and list your sh*t for what's acceptable - disclaimer: haven't sold on the Bay for 4-5 years, and while the auction/bidding world has certainly changed, I personally didn't give a sh!t 'cuz I named my acceptable minimum price,,,IF I wanted (needed) $20 on an item, it got listed at $19.99, and IF it didn't hit that mark, I got the f**k over it and simply refiled it in my inventory...NOT suggesting how YOU should run your personal business, but I personally avoided a sh!ttload of personal grief by simply listing it as what I could NOT live without, as it saved me from the "sour grapes/WTF?" commentary...

JMO.

I personally - on principal - REFUSE to be "butt-hurt" over the actions of a few, or others...

again, JMO.

DS

[bobbyw8469]

Bottom line...Ebay does not SHILL BID. To think so is ignorant. Case closed.

[pokerplyr80]

Patrick I don't understand why you have discounted the possibility that other snipes would have been placed between the 3rd highest bid and yours. 1 in 100, or 1 in 1,000? I think the odds are much higher. I would put the over/under at 1 in 3 if there were a way to take bets on this.

Also, isn't it a common practice to offer the under bidder a chance to buy the item at the next highest bid if the winner doesn't pay in any auction, not just ebay?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Patrick I don't understand why you have discounted the possibility that other snipes would have been placed between the 3rd highest bid and yours. 1 in 100, or 1 in 1,000? I think the odds are much higher. I would put the over/under at 1 in 3 if there were a way to take bets on this.

Also, isn't it a common practice to offer the under bidder a chance to buy the item at the next highest bid if the winner doesn't pay in any auction, not just ebay?

2nd Chance offer is also there if you have a duplicate and want to offer it to the next highest bidder.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

4) Now you have thrown out the red herring - that the buyer has a choice to accept the offer or not. Sure they do.
5) You have also throw out the red herring that - you can negotiate with the seller. Sure. Maybe the seller will negotiate.

Your red herrings are that you don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Those are NOT red herrings. They are legitimate choices.