1878 ca. Game in Action CDV - Pitcher? (large pic)

[Leon]

I am trying to figure this scene out. Does anyone see the pitcher here?

edited title date upon further discussion.

[benge610]

Hmmm,
that is a puzzler.
A whole lot of standing around; not many in position; between innings?

I would like to throw my hat in the "dating" game though.
My guess might be mid 1860's; in that C.D. Fredricks, generally acknowledged as bringing the CDV "technology" back here; from his experience in Paris; created this CDV from the Annie Speed portrait (she commissioned it from Fredricks); the first known image of Lincoln following his inauguration, March 1861. Allowing for this new technology to spread; in spite of Fredricks' attempts to "Patent" CDV's under the name 'Specialite' (unsuccessfully, BTW); there was no such thing as ownership of intellectual property back then. Yet Fredricks attempted to do just that. I am guessing that delayed the CDV "technology" from spreading quickly.



Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[swarmee]

Well, the pencil writing is accurate.
https://www.timesargus.com/news/godd...2b3d51ef7.html

Maybe the pitcher is the ghostly guy on the right side that is fading into the scenery?

[GaryPassamonte]

The player on the right looks to be in the pitching posture of the time. Can we get a blow up of the right side of the image?

[molenick]

First of all, that's another nice cdv from Leon. The photographer is J. A. French of Keene, NH which, according to https://www.langdonroad.com/fo-to-fy, is a later incarnation of French & Sawyer (also of Keene) who took the photo on another cdv Leon once owned.

As a total guess, I am thinking this is kind of a "school photo" where the photographer told the girls to all look out the windows, told some boys to pose as if they were playing ball, and told the rest of the boys to stand around. The batter is kind of in the middle of the infield and, as Leon said, there doesn't seem to be a pitcher. So I would still call it "in action" but I don't think they are actually playing a game. They also seem to be in their "Sunday best" which they may not have been wearing for an actual game (I am guessing they would have at least taken their jackets off).

All conjecture, of course.

And a great image!

Edited to add: what I thought were infield lines may just be walking paths. Also, I do see pitcher candidates, but they all seem kind of distant for a game of this time period and age of players.

[Jason19th]

If the photo is really that earlier it could be a game called trap ball where there was no pitcher and you would basically launch the ball with a small lever or trap and then hit it and run to base. It was sort of like t-ball and is thought off as an early form of baseball. I have owned many woodcut showing the game but have never seen a photo on

[D. Bergin]

Yeah, a blow up of the right side would be nice, but it does look like there's a guy just beyond the outline of the dirt path, facing the batter with his arm cocked back as if he's about to deliver an underhand pitch to the batter.

Also, is it possible that's a cricket pose? Hard to tell, but the batter looks like he may be holding a paddle, rather then a bat.

[molenick]

As for the dating of the photo, it could not be earlier than 1876 based on the link John posted to an article about the building which says it "....saw major renovations in 1876 with parlors added in the basement and the central steeple replaced by two steeples."

[Leon]

Originally Posted by molenick

As for the dating of the photo, it could not be earlier than 1876 based on the link John posted to an article about the building which says it "....saw major renovations in 1876 with parlors added in the basement and the central steeple replaced by two steeples."

I will try to get an enlarged right side of the cdv. It certainly looks earlier than than the 1870s to me....but maybe not.
.

[molenick]

Well, I was just going by the article saying the building did not have two steeples until 1876. Also by https://www.langdonroad.com/fo-to-fy having the earliest public reference to French, J. A. being 1874. I guess the article could be wrong and maybe there are earlier references to be discovered. But those are two clues pointing to the mid-1870s as the earliest.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by molenick

Well, I was just going by the article saying the building did not have two steeples until 1876. Also by https://www.langdonroad.com/fo-to-fy having the earliest public reference to French, J. A. being 1874. I guess the article could be wrong and maybe there are earlier references to be discovered. But those are two clues pointing to the mid-1870s as the earliest.

I don't disagree on the findings but have you ever seen players in the 1870s dressed and playing like that?
It reminds me of this one..

[molenick]

Well, I am not sure if we have determined if they are playing or posing yet. All we know for sure is that someone is swinging a bat and everyone except the batter is wearing jackets.

[D. Bergin]

I think they are playing, but probably more of a casual practice, exhibition or just batting practice, then a full on game.

Hell, could just be gym class at the college, for all anybody knows.

Also, it's New Hampshire. It gets cold in New Hampshire. Could explain why almost nobody has their jacket off, except the guy who needs to swing the bat.

[GaryPassamonte]

Since J A French didn't start his business until 1874 and the double steeple wasn't built until 1876, we can be sure this cdv is post 1876. The cdv appears to have a thick mount with obvious rounded corners as made. This mount style would have been popular circa 1875-1880. Given the image was taken in the 1875-1880 time frame, we can surmise it most likely pictures a casual game or practice of baseball by students of the seminary. We may never know if the player on the right is a pitcher or not, but it may really not matter. Any "game action" cdv is rare. At one time my collection included about 75 baseball cdvs and less than 5 were "game action" images.
Leon- The second cdv you posted is almost certainly circa 1870 or a little bit earlier given the long pants worn by the players and the possible knickers worn by a one of the players. I say possible because the "knickers" player may just have his pants tied up. As you know, I have a copy of that cdv. For my money, it is the best "game action" cdv I have ever seen. It has close ups of players, an umpire, and a scorekeeper. That is hard to top.

[SteveS]

I believe this guy is the pitcher. Also, here's a stereoview I have that's also by French.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by SteveS

I believe this guy is the pitcher. Also, here's a stereoview I have that's also by French.

+1

[Leon]

I went ahead and edited the title of this thread to be more closely aligned with the date the cdv was probably produced. I like the pitcher summation too. Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
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