PWCC is alive and well

[silvor]

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson, $20,500

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-J...oAAOSwRnNdQ1Os

Last sale May 2018 went for $12,000.

I think PWCC will be ok.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by silvor

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson, $20,500

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-J...oAAOSwRnNdQ1Os

Last sale May 2018 went for $12,000.

I think PWCC will be ok.

Really?? Just like Mastro was OK when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar? Remind me - Can I bid on a Mastro auction today?

[silvor]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Really?? Just like Mastro was OK when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar? Remind me - Can I bid on a Mastro auction today?

Good point Bobby. I guess at this point, collectors don't seem to care, so at least for the time being, they'll be selling at what seems to be strong prices.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by silvor

Good point Bobby. I guess at this point, collectors don't seem to care, so at least for the time being, they'll be selling at what seems to be strong prices.

And Mastro turned into Legendary....before they left. We won't be able to see the ramifications until the indictments come down. I don't think PWCC will perform "business as usual". Hard to say. Too many people are leery, and that CAN NOT be a good thing.

[Johnny630]

Only a matter of time till people stop pulling big money out of their pockets for cards like its burning a hole in it. This is a total sellers market...Much better times to buy are on the horizon/

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by silvor

Good point Bobby. I guess at this point, collectors don't seem to care, so at least for the time being, they'll be selling at what seems to be strong prices.

Of course they don’t care. Even the great white knight of the hobby was still bidding in Legendary Auctions after he was banned.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Really?? Just like Mastro was OK when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar? Remind me - Can I bid on a Mastro auction today?

No you can't but WOW did he make a boat load of cash and only got a slap on the wrist for it.

I am sure PWCC does have some legit customers. Too bad they are fueling the scam by using them. Just like the honest PSA customers.

Just like Nancy Reagan taught us that buying a dime bag leads to drug lords killing innocent people. We need to learn that using PWCC and PSA will lead us to having a completely worthless collection of altered cards. We need to stamp out PWCC and PSA before they completely ruin the hobby.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

No you can't but WOW did he make a boat load of cash and only got a slap on the wrist for it.

I am sure PWCC does have some legit customers. Too bad they are fueling the scam by using them. Just like the honest PSA customers.

Just like Nancy Reagan taught us that buying a dime bag leads to drug lords killing innocent people. We need to learn that using PWCC and PSA will lead us to having a completely worthless collection of altered cards. We need to stamp out PWCC and PSA before they completely ruin the hobby.

It's unfortunately to late, PSA already has completely influenced the millions of sheeple who eat and drink from the registry and pop report. Auction Houses, Dealers, ebay seller and collectors have made millions off their brand.... they will keep shut as always..... need to pump their product. To many people make money off PSA for them to fail.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It's unfortunately to late, PSA already has completely influenced the millions of sheeple who eat and drink from the registry and pop report. Auction Houses, Dealers, ebay seller and collectors have made millions off their brand.... they will keep shut as always..... need to pump their product. To many people make money off PSA for them to fail.

I agree but even a complete moron with eventually quit hitting themselves in the thumb with a hammer. It just takes longer for some than others.

I also agree that scammers will do everything they can to keep the scam going. Cash is king, receipt what receipt.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It's unfortunately to late, PSA already has completely influenced the millions of sheeple who eat and drink from the registry and pop report. Auction Houses, Dealers, ebay seller and collectors have made millions off their brand.... they will keep shut as always..... need to pump their product. To many people make money off PSA for them to fail.

So what's going to happen if a new TPG comes into being using advanced methods to weed out alterations, the result being for a card to hold its value a seller will be forced to have it re slabbed by this new company? Is the government going to shut down this new company because PSA is too big to fail?

The point is that the people who will decide the fate of PSA are not the people currently invested in it, but the new buyers who will be needed to sustain the hobby. And IMO no rational new buyer will opt for a currently graded PSA card if word has gotten out that they might be tainted and there is another grading alternative. Given the startup costs to create such a new TPG, I think one can safely assume that if this new company is successfully launched, its founders will have been smart enough to have budgeted that which is necessary to effectively market its product and make clear its superiority to current grading methods.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The point is that the people who will decide the fate of PSA are not the people currently invested in it, but the new buyers who will be needed to sustain the hobby.

This is true-- and PWCC "investment theories" are premised on recruiting new buyers.

I've often said that the change will be how cards are priced. I've never said that these altered cards will be worthless or not collected, but priced differently. I think in the future, PSA numbers will be priced differently. I've suggested that in the future the price differential between a 9 and a 10 will be different because these micro differences in grade will be perceived differently.

Of course, many of these issues are perceived differently by the person who owns (is invested in) the cards as opposed to the person shopping for cards. The owner often overlooks issues that the shopping is consciously looking fro, the same way that many sellers dismiss (and sometimes omit) information that the buyer wants to know. Even if conservation and alterations are accepted and number gradable, the cards will be priced differently.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

So what's going to happen if a new TPG comes into being using advanced methods to weed out alterations, the result being for a card to hold its value a seller will be forced to have it re slabbed by this new company? Is the government going to shut down this new company because PSA is too big to fail?

The point is that the people who will decide the fate of PSA are not the people currently invested in it, but the new buyers who will be needed to sustain the hobby. And IMO no rational new buyer will opt for a currently graded PSA card if word has gotten out that they might be tainted and there is another grading alternative. Given the startup costs to create such a new TPG, I think one can safely assume that if this new company is successfully launched, its founders will have been smart enough to have budgeted that which is necessary to effectively market its product and make clear its superiority to current grading methods.

Sounds great theoretically, but I don’t see it happening. If anything, computer aided authentication may be added to PSA or SGCs current analysis. Having said that, I don’t know how it would work. Take an area I know a little about-Old Judges. Please tell me what you would have the machine look for to detect a rebacked card? As long as no trimming was necessary it’s really is tough to tell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Sounds great theoretically, but I don’t see it happening. If anything, computer aided authentication may be added to PSA or SGCs current analysis. Having said that, I don’t know how it would work. Take an area I know a little about-Old Judges. Please tell me what you would have the machine look for to detect a rebacked card? As long as no trimming was necessary it’s really is tough to tell.

I also wonder how a machine would look for a factory edge especially where some of the elite doctors are now able to do a passable job of simulating them? Maybe but sounds awfully futuristic.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bnorth

No you can't but WOW did he make a boat load of cash and only got a slap on the wrist for it.

I am sure PWCC does have some legit customers. Too bad they are fueling the scam by using them. Just like the honest PSA customers.

Just like Nancy Reagan taught us that buying a dime bag leads to drug lords killing innocent people. We need to learn that using PWCC and PSA will lead us to having a completely worthless collection of altered cards. We need to stamp out PWCC and PSA before they completely ruin the hobby.

Very well stated Ben, but don't worry. "My submissions are popping" and I have such a warm feeling pissing down my leg with excitement... people are such IDIOTS PERIOD

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Really?? Just like Mastro was OK when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar? Remind me - Can I bid on a Mastro auction today?

but yet you keep submitting and they keep popping, Whatever the F that means. Do you understand that PSA is in on this and it's a billion dollar fraud?

Stop buying the effing cards and submitting cards to these criminals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

but yet you keep submitting and they keep popping, Whatever the F that means. Do you understand that PSA is in on this and it's a billion dollar fraud?

Stop buying the effing cards and submitting cards to these criminals.

"Poppage" bro. As in "sub popped." As in message board slang for my grades are available.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"Poppage" bro. As in "sub popped." As in message board slang for my grades are available.

oH, THANK YOU. I was feeling left out. I wanted my subs to Pop too. Even though I never had a submarine.

Just like my resto mod engine is 454 bored to 464. Everyone was asking me if it was "stroked". I never knew what that was but I felt I was missing something? Even though the car has 100K into it, I always wanted a "stroker".... but I never knew WTF they were talking about. I don't know what "bored" means either? But I have it and it feels good.

I do know what "fraudulent scam" means though and this card debacle is the very definition.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And when you open a pack or box and do well, it's a "nice rip!!"

Since the CU message board deletes ("poofs") anything of substance, it's mostly about poppage and rips.

[SMPEP]

I think it comes down to the consignors.

PWCC will be in business as long as they get good "stuff" from their consignors.

Even if I (and others) pass because of bidding on their stuff, enough people will bid to keep prices strong.

And I must admit - I get it.

Even though I will avoid them, if they posted for sale a W572 Walt Barbare - trimmed/doctored/shill bidding/whatever - I would make an exception and bid. Sorry. It's one of my final 3 - and doctored or not - I've been looking for it for years. So if I see it, I'm bidding. I'm sure there are cards others are looking for too, and they will make certain exceptions for (even if I don't think they "should").


So the only question is will consignors still go to PWCC?

The answer to date appears to be YES.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

oH, THANK YOU. I was feeling left out. I wanted my subs to Pop too. Even though I never had a submarine.

Just like my resto mod engine is 454 bored to 464. Everyone was asking me if it was "stroked". I never knew what that was but I felt I was missing something? Even though the car has 100K into it, I always wanted a "stroker".... but I never knew WTF they were talking about. I don't know what "bored" means either? But I have it and it feels good.

I do know what "fraudulent scam" means though and this card debacle is the very definition.

My brother has been a mechanic for over 40 years so I have learned a little, though not much, about cars and engines. Bored means that the cylinder was bored out to increase the size. This means you also use larger pistons. This increases the total displacement of the engine. In your case it was increased from 454 cubic inches to 464. You get the displacement by getting the volume of each cylinder by measuring the displacement between when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder to the top. You multiply by the number of cylinders to get the total displacement. Stroked means that you modified the crankshaft so that the piston travels farther into the cylinder which creates greater displacement and power. Those numbers are no longer used as all manufacturers have gone to liters. A 400 engine would be 6.6 liters, a 464 would be around 7 liters..

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Michael B

My brother has been a mechanic for over 40 years so I have learned a little, though not much, about cars and engines. Bored means that the cylinder was bored out to increase the size. This means you also use larger pistons. This increases the total displacement of the engine. In your case it was increased from 454 cubic inches to 464. You get the displacement by getting the volume of each cylinder by measuring the displacement between when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder to the top. You multiply by the number of cylinders to get the total displacement. Stroked means that you modified the crankshaft so that the piston travels farther into the cylinder which creates greater displacement and power. Those numbers are no longer used as all manufacturers have gone to liters. A 400 engine would be 6.6 liters, a 464 would be around 7 liters..

I did not know that, thank you very much. I do know that I still managed to make it to Malibu today AND with the 600HP, IT WAS STILL FAST. I could hardly keep the wheels on the ground!!! VROOMMMMM. Still. I'm feeling empty inside because I have no stroker and I really really wanted one. Just like I wanted PSA to tell me if a card has been trimmed....I had the feeling I couldn't trust them but they soaked me for a bundle the last 2 years alone anyway. I am a schmuck. I blame myself. I knew it but was under the spell.

That doesn't mean I will continue to get my teeth kicked in, like so many other dopey mc dope dopes that can't quit it.

Have a little pride and give it a rest for a while. Just say no & quit popping. It is very stupid and not very useful anyway, IMHO.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

but yet you keep submitting and they keep popping, Whatever the F that means. Do you understand that PSA is in on this and it's a billion dollar fraud?

Stop buying the effing cards and submitting cards to these criminals.

I don't cheat....therin lies the rub. You want to piss off a bunch of collectors and hobbyist because of the greed of Moser and Brent. I tell you what. YOU get out of the hobby, and I will be right behind you. Since it's all corrupt anyway.

[BeanTown]

Tom Skerritt tells all his new pilots the samething Brent/Moser tells all their new cards.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't cheat....therin lies the rub. You want to piss off a bunch of collectors and hobbyist because of the greed of Moser and Brent. I tell you what. YOU get out of the hobby, and I will be right behind you. Since it's all corrupt anyway.

I already am fruitcake, your still pooping...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by silvor

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson, $20,500

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-J...oAAOSwRnNdQ1Os

Last sale May 2018 went for $12,000.

I think PWCC will be ok.

Go take a hard look at the upper right corner area especially on the right. Then compare that to the rest of the edges.

Then get back to me on how great PWCC is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

Go take a hard look at the upper right corner area especially on the right. Then compare that to the rest of the edges.

Then get back to me on how great PWCC is.

You are not the only one to have observed potential issues with that right edge.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by steve B

Go take a hard look at the upper right corner area especially on the right. Then compare that to the rest of the edges.

Then get back to me on how great PWCC is.

PWCC sucks...but this is more a reflection on how badly PSA sucks!!!!

[ullmandds]

I just took an acrylic bur to this PSA slab!!!!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I just took an acrylic bur to this PSA slab!!!!

That's a lot of work for a slab that pops apart in a half a second.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That's a lot of work for a slab that pops apart in a half a second.

haha...it really wasn't...took 30 seconds or so...and it was more fun!!!!!

[HRBAKER]

If you had a used car to sell and the best lot in town had been shown to sell cars with rolled back mileage and/or altered CarFax reports resulting in bringing the most money. Would you consign your car there?