2002 ALL STAR GAME FARCE (and Selig,the puppet comissioner)

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Posted By: Tom D.

Is this a precursor to the season not being finished? Ending the All Star game in a tie was the worst decision I have ever seen. This is not soccer or hockey! Games can't end in a tie.

I have never known a pitcher's career to have ended by pitching a few extra innings in a season. One of the reasons pitchers are injured so often these days is because they are coddled like little babies. They don't have a chance to throw enough innings to build up their arm strength and durability.

Whatever happened to the days of Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry, Warren Spahn, Steve Carlton, and Nolan Ryan. It wasn't unusual for these pitchers to throw 300+ innings in a year. These pitchers are all among the top 10 in career innings pitched, and they all turned out fine.

I wish Selig would just do what is best for the game! I am sick of the ass kissing that goes on between him and Torre. A comissioner is supposed to be a seperate entity from the owners and players, and do what is best for the game by preserving the rules, history, etc. This is obviously not true with Selig.

Selig is just a puppet comissioner put in by the owners so they can manipulate him (kind of like the president of Germany was during WWII when Hitler was actually running the country). This was evident during the All Star game when he was told what to do by Torre and Brenley.

Here is a simple solution: Selig tells the managers to get themselves out of their self-created mess, and they put the pitchers at a position and have a position player pitch. This would have at least determined a winner and loser and made the game respectable.

This game was just another example of how little respect the fans ("the sponsors of baseball") receive. The game is for the fans, and it could not even be finished!

Bart Giamatti is probably turning in his grave.

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Posted By: vorthian

Well said. On a side-note, can you imagine Nolan Ryan's pitch count in the 70's?

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Your statement about Selig making the mgrs get out of there self-created mess is great, but putting position players at pitcher would be a real mistake and I doubt many of them would accept. I was at the game many years ago in Boston when Jose Canseco pitched. We all know how easy it is for a pitcher to hurt their arms - can you imagine how easy it is for someone who isn't trained to pitch? The Texas Rangers were without Canseco basically for the remainder of the season because of this little stunt.

And Canseco is also proof that soccer and baseball do mix - he once did a beautiful header of a baseball right over the fence.

--------------------------------------------
Disclaimer
I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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Posted By: Dr.Richard Koos

...with an attitude like Robert DeNiro in "the Fan". THAT would certainly liven things up!

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Posted By: jay behrens

the big difference between pitchers today and the old timers, is that the mechanics of pitching is totally different. If you have watched footage of early games, almost every pitcher threw sidearm and sppeds were rarely over 90mph. Very few threw in what is no considered the clssic over the top style. Ryan is a bad example to use for a model of endurance and reliabity. He is a gentic freak.

I agree that going back to a 4 man rotation would not hurt most pitchers, but sadly, becuase so much money is tied up in these players, they tend to baby them rather than toughen them up.

Jay

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Posted By: vorthian

<< but putting position players at pitcher would be a real mistake >>

I disagree - I would rather see position players pitching over a tie.

>> ... can you imagine how easy it is for someone who isn't trained to pitch? <<

Hogwash. They aren't trained to throw 90+ fastballs, curves, screwballs, etc, but that doesn't mean they can't toss BP (or a little faster) for crying out loud. And if they can't toss BP (or a little faster) w/o hurting something, they don't belong on the diamond.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Jay says:

"If you have watched footage of early games, almost every pitcher threw sidearm and sppeds were rarely over 90mph. "

Being a relative youngster on this board -- I obviously can't speak from personal experience about pitchers from generations ago. But I have read many stories of Bob Feller's laser arm. Wasn't there even a contest where his fastball beat a motorcycle that was going 100 mph? I thought that there were a lot of power pitchers in the 1950s and 1960s -- though perhaps you were referring to an earlier era?

The biggest difference I have seen is the development of "speciality" pitchers -- with the relievers, set-up men, closers, etc. And, thus, pitchers pitch fewer innings, lower pitch counts, etc.

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Posted By: leon

You must just be playing the devil advocate here. Even when you were nice enough to help me block that butthead from bidding in my auction last night (showing me stuff on ebay I didn't know about) and we spoke about this I was in respectful disagreement. I agree with almost everyone else on this one. Get the dang hot dog guy out there if you have to, to pitch. Crap, even with my lame arm I would do it. Get someone from the bleachers or something but make it happen. When any contest is undermined by the fact it is not being played to win I think you might as well just have a beer and watch badmitton or something....what a shame this was.....the more I think about it the more I justify my reasoning for not keeping up too much on current baseball stuff.....regards alll

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Posted By: runscott

I am quite aware that millionaire athletes are capable of throwing fastballs - please re-read the rest of the post, after the part where your face turned red because someone disagreed with you.

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Posted By: runscott

Top 10 best responses by Bud Selig when Joe Torre approached him before the game and said, "Hey Bud - I plan to use my entire roster in the first 9 inning, and won't use any of my pitchers more than 3 innings. What do you think?"

1. That's pretty dumb Joe - save some pitchers or you'll have to use position players.
2. Okay, but we need to let the fans know what our plan is in case of a tie.
3. Joe - you and Bob figure it out, I've got problems of my own
4. This game is for the fans, so lets announce "fan pitcher for an inning" winners based on seat numbers.
5. Warren Spahn's still here - use him
6. I talked with my bookie and the odds are 100 to 1 against a tie. But hey, you have to put at least a $1 on those longshots!
7. I think a coin toss after 11 will be fine
8. I don't know, what do they do in soccer?
9. If it goes past 11 we'll just quit and go home

(drum roll) and the stupidest response of all.....

10. Just go play ball - we'll worry about that if it happens

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Posted By: W.M.

Canseco probably injured himself from his excessive steoid use. I remember many years ago when a great shortstop played all nine positions in a game (Bert Campineras) some of those players the other night were one time pitchers and would not have much of a problem pitching. It might also show that Torre and Brenley were worthy of a Allstar title by forcing them to try and win a game in a challenging fashion.

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Posted By: warshawlaw (feeling very grumpy today)

I'm tired and hung over from going to the Dodgers-Diamondbacks last night, so I'm popping off rather than working:

I am a Yankees and Dodgers fan (I know . . .). Both teams are contending and both sent players to the game. We in L.A. were thrilled that Paul LoDuca was not selected (the last thing a catcher needs is more time playing) and that Shawn Green sat out the home run derby (he injured his thumb just before the break). The game has lost its novelty because of the interleague play, and has lost its value to the players (the revenues used to fund the pension plan; I somehow don't think that is much of an issue now). It was really great to see how Ted Williams would hit Warren Spahn, which is what made the All Star game fun pre-interleague play. But if you want to see how Sammy Sosa would hit Pedro Martinez (note that neither will ever face the other in the World Series since the Cubs don't contend and the Sox will never win, ever), you will be able to during an interleague game. About all the AS game is good for is resting the contending team players and it has the big risk of injuring a critical star, which is why more and more guys fake injuries or flatly refuse to show up. Drop the damned thing.

BTW, the consensus among the fans at the game last night (at least the dozen or so I talked with in the 2nd row behind the D-Backs dugout--SWEET seats) is that the season will be torpedoed.

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Posted By: TBob

Ted Williams said he was the hardest thrower he ever faced, even faster than Bob Feller of the 100 mph fastball.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

At least in the pre-wwI era, it was intended that a starting pitcher go the distance, regardless of extra innings. For that reason, it was common for pitchers to save their arms until they needed them (pitch easier early on).