Officially How many T206 backs ?

[insidethewrapper]

Officially - How many T206 backs are there ? I've seen many lists. Could someone plus indicate how many and list them all here ? thanks Mike

[Abravefan11]

39 if you include Blank Back and Brown Old Mill which were not inserted into packs.

1) American Beauty 350 - Frame
2) American Beauty 350 - No Frame
3) American Beauty 460
4) Blank Back
5) Broad Leaf 350
6) Broad Leaf 460
7) Carolina Brights
8) Cycle 350
9) Cycle 460
10) Drum 350
11) El Principe De Gales
12) Hindu - Brown
13) Hindu - Red
14) Lenox – Black
15) Lenox - Brown
16) Old Mill – Black - Base Ball Subjects
17) Old Mill – Black - Southern Leagues
18) Old Mill – Brown - Southern Leagues
19) Piedmont 150
20) Piedmont 350
21) Piedmont 350-460 No.25
22) Piedmont 350-460 No.42
23) Polar Bear
24) Sovereign 150
25) Sovereign 350 – Dark Green
26) Sovereign 350 - Apple Green
27) Sovereign 460
28) Sweet Caporal 150 No.25
29) Sweet Caporal 150 No.30
30) Sweet Caporal 150 No.649 OP
31) Sweet Caporal 350 No.25
32) Sweet Caporal 350 No.30
33) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.25
34) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.30
35) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.42
36) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.42 OP
37) Tolstoi
38) Ty Cobb
39) Uzit

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

39 if you include Blank Back and Brown Old Mill which were not inserted into packs.

1) American Beauty 350 - Frame
2) American Beauty 350 - No Frame
3) American Beauty 460
4) Blank Back
5) Broad Leaf 350
6) Broad Leaf 460
7) Carolina Brights
8) Cycle 350
9) Cycle 460
10) Drum 350
11) El Principe De Gales
12) Hindu - Brown
13) Hindu - Red
14) Lenox – Black
15) Lenox - Brown
16) Old Mill – Black - Base Ball Subjects
17) Old Mill – Black - Southern Leagues
18) Old Mill – Brown - Southern Leagues
19) Piedmont 150
20) Piedmont 350
21) Piedmont 350-460 No.25
22) Piedmont 350-460 No.42
23) Polar Bear
24) Sovereign 150
25) Sovereign 350 – Dark Green
26) Sovereign 350 - Apple Green
27) Sovereign 460
28) Sweet Caporal 150 No.25
29) Sweet Caporal 150 No.30
30) Sweet Caporal 150 No.649 OP
31) Sweet Caporal 350 No.25
32) Sweet Caporal 350 No.30
33) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.25
34) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.30
35) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.42
36) Sweet Caporal 350-460 No.42 OP
37) Tolstoi
38) Ty Cobb
39) Uzit

Different thread for sure but I think an argument could be made for the Ty Cobb card not being a T206. We have beat that horse enough though and I truly doubt, without any more empirical evidence being found, we ever come to an unanimous agreement on it. As I am doing the backs, very slowly, I won't consider the Cobb back for my set to be complete.

[danmckee]

Leon, I consider my backs set complete and I do not own a Cobb back. Dan.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Leon

Different thread for sure but I think an argument could be made for the Ty Cobb card not being a T206.

Leon - I think we'll both agree it definitely is a topic that can and will be debated for a long time. I choose to include it because Burdick classified it as a T206 and until there is proof that it definitively isn't I'll keep it on the list. Either way a collector looks at it is OK with me.

[FrankWakefield]

38.


That glossy front card with the Ty Cobb back may well be a cousin to the white border tobacco cards, T206; but it is not a T206.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Leon - I think we'll both agree it definitely is a topic that can and will be debated for a long time. I choose to include it because Burdick classified it as a T206 and until there is proof that it definitively isn't I'll keep it on the list. Either way a collector looks at it is OK with me.

You included blank backs and Burdick didn't?

*understanding you gave a caveat but Burdick still didn't include them.

[Abravefan11]

I was just explaining my reasoning for including the Cobb on the list I use. I should have included the Cobb in the disclaimer with the Blank Back and Brown Old Mill in my original post.

[E93]

39

Cobb back is definitely T206. Not trying to start this discussion again - just having fun with definitive claims.
JimB

[Jaybird]

Could someone scan the two colors of Sovereign back? I'm wondering how distinct the color difference is? I guess my basic question is: Could a faded Dark Green back look like an Apple Green back?


Nevermind: Just found my answer here: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...gn+apple+green
[/B]
But for anyone else who was curious, I'll leave my question there.


Thanks,

Jason

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

39 if you include Blank Back and Brown Old Mill which were not inserted into packs.

Being a half-hearted non-historian T206 collector, my question might seem obvious, but why are the blank backs not considered to have been inserted into packs? Isn't it possible that unprinted backs (a printing oversight, perhaps) made it through the printing process and into packs? And what is the reason for the Brown Old Mills not being in packs?

Brian

[Jaybird]

from what I understand, every blank back is hand cut, so that would be the reasoning why they would never have been inserted into packs. Only machine cut cards made it in.

I'll wait to hear on the Brown Old Mill. Curious about that one as well.

[Abravefan11]

Brown Old Mills are hand cut as well. I personally have never seen a factory cut.

[wonkaticket]

All known Brown Old Mills are handcut or trimmed in someway. Some are very obvious some not as much as others.

I've talked with other collectors and from what we can confirm there are around 12 known brown Old Mills to date confirmed. It's safe to say that since we can confirm 12, just being safe perhaps maybe there's another 10+ or so out there locked away or not surfaced.

There are also cases of cards just being missed the recent Goodwin Sid Smith was not labeled as anyting other than AUTH, however collectors caught notice of the auction and the price quickly shot up. Oddly enough Sid Smith seems to be one of the easier cards to find as there are 3 of him known others not so much.

Another neat note brown Old Mills have only been found on southern league brown Hindu players to date and most likely are not found on Texas league players. All the confirmed brown OM's are also found with Brown Hindu.

Then there are the (3) known print oddities. Leon's own super cool multi-strike printers scrap is a Brown Old Mill (along with others). Finally we have the 2 known print scraps with Sweet Caporal OP that are known. The single OP that sold in REA and the double OP that sold in Oser in 98. These are the cards that Chan & the T206museum were producing to collectors as fakes. To read more in case you missed that see the below links.

http://imageevent.com/piojohn3/fraud...milloverprints

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=chan

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13341



If any of the info is a repeat sorry some of the newer members may have missed some of the info.

Cheers,

John

[wonkaticket]

I still need two more in my book...I'm up in the air on Cobb.

But according to a recent survey conducted by Wonkatech. 100% of all guys named Jim B think he's a T206.

I also think the mis-strikes on the SC 350-460 OP's are neat if you can find the right one both factory's are easily seen sort of a two factory card. I think they are neat and have added one to my back set and a few in my collection.

I also like going after players with all known backs or getting as close as I can.

Thought I would share, hope you guys share some cards too.




Cheers,

John

[ethicsprof]

39

JimB knows.

all the best,
barry

[FrankWakefield]

1.

Yes, that's right. Only one back on T206s. If JimB says that that glossy fronted Cobb card with the Ty Cobb back is a T206, and Wonka wanna that to be right, then I'll go with it. But those other 38 cards must then be something else... so only 1 T206 back. Ty Cobb.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I still need two more in my book...I'm up in the air on Cobb.

But according to a recent survey conducted by Wonkatech. 100% of all guys named Jim B think he's a T206.

I also think the mis-strikes on the SC 350-460 OP's are neat if you can find the right one both factory's are easily seen sort of a two factory card. I think they are neat and have added one to my back set and a few in my collection.

I also like going after players with all known backs or getting as close as I can.

Thought I would share, hope you guys share some cards too.




Cheers,

John

John
Nice collection of the different backs. Always cool to see all those Murphy's lined up too.
drew

[tedzan]

This illustrates the difference in color between the normal green backs of the SOVEREIGN 150....350....460 Series cards and the "apple green" 350 Series
cards. There are exactly 66 cards in this set that were printed with this lighter shade of green.



..................apple green backs

..................normal green back



TED Z

[Rob D.]

 

[wonkaticket]

Rob D Giddy Up!

Wow Brown Lenox! Sweet looking Cycle 460 too, amzing stuff.

Cheers,

John

[Abravefan11]

John - I'll never get tired of seeing the Murphy run. It is something special.

Rob D - I know you don't consider yourself a T206 collector but you're putting together a great Lajoie set.

Here are 109 different front/back Boston National combos.

[Mikehealer]

Mine don't come close to Rob's Lajoie's are the 100+ Murphy backs of Wonka,
but here are two that I am still missing a couple from each. A fun way to collect different backs.

[Leon]

a few more.....

[wonkaticket]

Dang Tim and I thought I had a problem....WOW that's amazing on those Boston cards.

I see we both ran Lindaman as well to funny.

Mike those look great too! One of my fav players and to have Victory that's really something and one of the best looking T206's ever made in Powers.

Great stuff guys!

Cheers,

John

P.S. Leon that cards a mess how do you keep that thing in your collection it has to drive you nuts.

[bijoem]

40) Coupon

[mrvster]

John!

I passed on that yellow brown murphy years ago and have been kicking myself ever since!! (if u got it from Craig,i bought his Konetchy)
I'm glad 2 see you got it tho!!

real nice back collection !!!

i wished i had focused on the rare t206 backs years ago, i don't own any real rare ones(but one day) i was to busy searching for the freaks!

guys, great collections

my vote....Cobb back no.....

brown om no....blank back no....


these we all no were never distributed in packs!!picking out of the garbage, a sales promotion(Cobb), ect....

just my 2 cents

Peace

Johnny

[steve B]

I've got between 9 and 11 left to go, depending on if you count Ty Cobb and Coupon.
I'm really impressed with the runs of a certain card with all the backs, I'm not sure I'd have the focus to do that even if I had the money. I've been collecting the backs for about 30 years, and haven't made all that much progress. I've only thought about the different factories and series for a few years though, I was just trying for one of each brand.

I was surprised to figure out I'd missed a few of the easy ones. Something I'll be fixing this year. That will only get it to 6-8 needed though. Those I think will always be a bit too expensive.

Steve B

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Jaybird

from what I understand, every blank back is hand cut, so that would be the reasoning why they would never have been inserted into packs. Only machine cut cards made it in.

I'll wait to hear on the Brown Old Mill. Curious about that one as well.

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Brown Old Mills are hand cut as well. I personally have never seen a factory cut.

Thanks guys for the responses...now I and others have got us some educating in us.

Brian

[PolarBear]

What about Coupon.

[HercDriver]

Of the 66 Sovereign cards printed with the lighter shade of green, were they printed in both shades, or just the light shade?

Just curious...

Take Care,
Geno

[SlugSports]

I realize this might be more opinion than fact but how about ranking all 39 backs by scarcity? Rarest to most common. Anyone....?

[Abravefan11]

Hi Brian -

Post #2 in the following thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=sovereign

[SlugSports]

Awesome! Thanks Tim!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

Of the 66 Sovereign cards printed with the lighter shade of green, were they printed in both shades, or just the light shade?

Just curious...

Take Care,
Geno

Geno

The 66 cards were printed only with the lighter shade of green. FYI....I have listed these 66 cards here.



..................apple green backs

..................normal green back



List of apple green backs in the SOVEREIGN set........66 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Joe Doyle (arms over head)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rucker (bat)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago-white cap)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


TED Z