N566 Newsboy Pugilists and their variations

[G1911]

I don't want to present myself as any kind of expert of here, but it seems all previous efforts have amounted to 'there are different variations and several factors' and left it there. I'd like to dive a little deeper here and document them all, as I'm doing for pretty much all the 1887-1912 stuff. This is thus, like usual, both a request for help either publicly or privately showing other examples and a data dump of some of my research for anyone who isn't bored of this stuff yet.

I'm going to take it one card at a time so as to not dump 20 images into one post. Basic checklist:

Group 1:
#23 J.J. Corbett (portrait 1)
#72 J.J. Corbett (fighting pose, less common is portrait 1's photo)
#73 Peter Jackson (2 slightly different fighting poses)

Group 2 (301-390):
#347 J.J. Corbett (portrait 2, green type)

Group 3:
#966 Bob Fitzsimmons
#1068 John L. Sullivan (fighting pose)

Other ? [DEBUNKED]
Composite Checklist w/ Sullivan portrait

The group 1 cards are more commonly found than the other groups, in and out of boxing. Within that group some cards are less common. I don't believe this set is really as complex as it is sometimes made out to be and that every 'possible' version actually exists in each group - some differences are linked together rather than generally found on every version. I am also confident there is much I do not know (hint hint!)

[G1911]

First up, the first of two Corbett portraits. Strictly speaking this is not a 'boxing card', the Newsboy issue had a handful of famous people in it from other professions but the focus was very much on actresses and actors. Corbett is almost certainly included here for his stage career, unlike his fighting stance #72 card.

This portrait is less common than his fighting card. I suspect the amount of possible combinations for it is smaller than for Corbett fighting pose or Peter Jackson.

Key differences in group 1 are that 1) multiple photos of a subject could be found for the same number, 2) the font used for the Newsboy, number and name, and city, 3) the presence of the subjects name on the card itself, and/or on the albumen photo or non-existent, and 4) the same for the card number as for the name.

Here are the three different examples of this pose I have been able to find. Most are #23. Note the two different fonts on the two #23's. One is bolder and thicker. It is said the font differences mix but I suspect there are only two of them at this time, as the pattern holds consistent. The thicker one, with the straighter "y" in Newsboy, also has the thicker city name, a thicker frame line, and as will be seen on other subjects the consistently thicker name and number font. I think there are 2 mounts for this group. I have arbitrarily termed the thicker one font 1 and the thinner one with the curvier "y" in Newsboy as font 2.

Both have the name and number on the Albumen photograph.

The font 2 card shows a hint of the subjects name and number, mostly hidden by the photograph. This is something of a problem for cataloguing, as some cards have the photo pasted down far enough to possibly cover up the name and number, and others were clearly printed with no name or number on the card. These cards were essentially handmade, with the photos pasted onto the card mount and not always very carefully. We can also see they are cropped differently; however this is not a variation. It's just because the albumen photos were handcut to the vaguely right size and then stuck onto the mount.

The third copy is the same photograph, font 2, with name on card, number on card and on photo. Note the name is absent from the albumen photo this time. However, the number is 72, and placed in a different spot within the photograph. The #72 version of this portrait is definitely less common, I haven't seen many of them. There are probably at least 1 other variation of this #72 Corbett Portrait involving the font or the captioning.

Note the photos themselves are rounded; these #23's were produced with Group 3.

[G1911]

Next up, Corbett's boxing pose. This is always found as #72 or less commonly sans a number at all. I suspect a couple combinations are missing and that there is at least one more font 1 version.

We have:
1 - Font 2, name on photo, with no number. The number is too far to the left to be covered up by the photo, so this one was printed without the number.

2 - Font 2, no name or number on photo, both name and number on the card.

3 - Font 2, number on photo, number and name on card.

4 - Font 1, no number, name on photo.

5 - And finally, we have the Campbell version using the same setup as the Newsboys. The Campbell cards are said to be scarcer than the Newsboys, though I strongly think this actually varies by the subject with some of them actually easier in the Campbell variety. Corbett is not one of those subjects, Campbell is rare on him. This one has the name in the photo, nothing on the stock. I am not sure we will find variance on this one. The Campbell was produced with group 3.

[G1911]

#73 Peter Jackson comes in two poses again. They seem to be photos taken just seconds apart. While there are many points of differentiation, the easiest is that one has his left foot angled and the other has his left foot straight. The angled foot version is less common in my experience. I really regret not keeping scans from this series until recently, because I am confident there are more versions of it than this, and this one is so bad I can't make out all the details, but the first image attached is the angled foot picture.

For the foot straight picture, we have:
2 - Font 2, no number, name on mount
3 - Font 1, number in photo, name on mount
4 - Font 1 , number in photo and on mount, name on mount
5 - Font 2, nothing in photo, number and name both on mount

[G1911]

That's it for group 1.

The second group is numbered 301-390, possibly higher than that. They have green rather than red mount styling, and the stock is more of a grey. Photo quality is usually much, much better than for group 1 in hand. I don't have a 347 Corbett but my actresses are markedly improved in the photo quality, I believe they are a slightly different method of producing the photo and have more of a 'shine' to them. They usually bear a copyright dare from B.J. Falk's photography studio, with the date varying by the subject.

differences I am aware of is that the number can appear in the photo or only on the mount, and the 'New York' is printed in cursive or standard lettering.

In addition, while most cards are found blank backed, a minority of them have advertising for several different products. Bliss Long cut, Red Indian Cut Plug tobacco, a different ad for "Red Indian Tobacco" without the cut plug, and Havana Tobacco's. There may be more. Reeve reports the ad backs have the photos in more of a sepia than a black and white, which matches with my actresses, so we can probably tell an ad back from the front.

I have found several specimens of #347 Corbett, using a different portrait photograph, all of which have no number in the photo and the standard block lettering of "New York". It is possible there is another version with the copyright line next to his name missing.

It is likely he comes with at least some of the tough advertising backs, or did originally. Warshaw's book reports the Red Indian Cut Plug back on a 347 Corbett, but I have not seen a picture of this copy. The ad backs of any kind are scarce.

Since this is the boxing/wrestling board, I want to note William Muldoon is number 374 in this series.

[G1911]

Next is the third group, which stars numbering over at 1. Most numbers do not actually exist, and make no consistent sense. There are huge gaps and than a random number. There are only 2 over 1000, but the highest number I have found someone mention is 1376.

#966 is Bob Fitzsimmons. These seem to all have the name and number in the photo only, restricting our differences. Fitzsimmons Newsboys are rare, I have not seen many to say the least. Attached is a font 2. In these high numbers, this font seems to be the more common and font 1 tougher, though at least some of the subjects in the 900 range come with font 1 mounts. I expect we are missing 1 of the 2 versions I expect to exist.

Fitzsimmons also comes as a Campbell. Unlike #72 Corbett, I think Campbell is actually more common on Fitzsimmons than Newsboy. Attached are 3 examples I found, without any variation. The cropping, again, is the result of the pictures being cut and glued on to them, pretty much every card will be marginally different in size and thus what is shown.

[Andy Baran]

I formally owned the only known Newsboy Sullivan that is pictured. It is #1065.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Andy Baran

I formally owned the only known Newsboy Sullivan that is pictured. It is #1065.

Thank you! Warshaw and Reeve give the different numbers and my poor eyes couldn’t tell which was correct. I have updated the OP checklist.

[Andy Baran]

My apologies. There was a typo in my post. The Sullivan is #1068. I sent a scan of it to Reeve back in 2006, and I think he listed it as #1065 accidentally on his site. Sorry for the confusion.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Andy Baran

My apologies. There was a typo in my post. The Sullivan is #1068. I sent a scan of it to Reeve back in 2006, and I think he listed it as #1065 accidentally on his site. Sorry for the confusion.

No apology needed, thank you for correcting. It messes with my formatting when I have to assign two numbers because I can't read it cleanly. Updated the original post checklist and annotated the Sullivan specific post to correct my confusion and identify it as 1068.

Something tells me we won't be confirming the second and third theoretical variations of this card anytime soon...

[G1911]

Found another version of Jackson, hidden and buried away in plain sight by... being in my own collection.

Right foot straight - Font 1 - no number or name in photo - name on mount with no number on mount.