Opinions about GAI

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Posted By: Matt R

The owner of my local card shop said they are a pretty respected name in the graded card market. On the PSA board, most of them insist they are a third rate company equivalent to GEM or PRO. I had always considered them one of the big 4 along with PSA, Beckett, and SGC. I've seen a few high end Mastro and Memory Lane auction items graded by GAI. Do they really make more mistakes than the other companies? Or are people still hostile over their recent relocation nightmare? I don't consider their screw up over the relocation as an indicator of the actual grades given to the cards. Sure it was poor from a public relations view, but does that really affect the quality of the work done by their graders?

As I'm not going to renew my PSA membership, I am looking for another service. I think now it's between GAI and SGC. What's your opinion on the 4 of these companies? If you have any facts that lead to your opinion whether it's good or bad, please post up.

By the way, I actually tested GEM one time. I had a counterfeit Jordan rookie and submitted it to see if they would slab it or not (I had no intentions of trying to sell it as authentic). I must give them credit as they correctly detected the card was fake and I got the card back in under 10 days from the time I sent it. And to top it off, they didn't charge me since they didn't slab it. I thought they were good from a service perspective.

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Posted By: rob

SGC hands down.

1. Customer service is off the charts good.
2. Graders and CS personnel are nice, personable and actually care about you as a person, not just business.
3. Cards look great in slabs
4. Time of submissions is usually accurate, or within a day or two.
5. Consistent in their grades (I buy blind graded SGC cards all the time b/c of this)
6. Registry is great
7. Prices are reasonable and no membership fees

I am sure I could go on...

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Posted By: Stan

The truth is, vintage goes SGC or PSA, then Beckett, then, if all of them reject it, try GAI as a last resort.

The truth about GAI is that alot of us will not touch anything in a GAI holder(buying online), unless it can be viewed in person, as they do have a history of over-grading, as well as letting more than their fair share of altered cards go through. Alot of them were caught when collectors tried to cross them over to SGC or PSA. Heck, you of all people should know about that.

And before you try to twist this.... yes, all companies have had issues here and there, but GAI's track record has been far worse than SGC, PSA, or Beckett, when it comes to the issues I detailed.

And for the record, I am not getting into a peeing match with you, just voicing my opinions on grading services, since you started this thread claiming you have "the truth" about GAI.


EDIT: Spelling

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Posted By: fkw

SGC by far!

To me there is only one grading company.

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Posted By: Bill

1. Customer service is off the charts good.
2. Graders and CS personnel are nice, personable and actually care about you as a person, not just business.
3. Cards look great in slabs
4. Time of submissions is usually accurate, or within a day or two.
5. Consistent in their grades (I buy blind graded SGC cards all the time b/c of this)
6. Registry is great
7. Prices are reasonable and no membership fees

I agree 100%, I have never received the same CS that matched SGC from others. They call ask you questions about your sub,and so much more.

Getting back to the topic, I used GAI when they first came into Grading I have no regrets. They have have a great staff, but mismanagement screwed them. It's a long road back to build your reputation.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

I don't dislike GAI, but if I were choosing they'd be 4th on my list with BVS being 3rd, PSA 2nd and SGC tops.

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Posted By: Steve

5. Consistent in their grades (I buy blind graded SGC cards all the time b/c of this)


Really? Centering does not concern you?


Steve

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I just crossed over a bunch of PSA and GAI cards to SGC. The PSA cards crossed basically even. The GAI cards either crossed at lower grades (in some cases two full grades) or were rejected for alterations. I would never, ever willingly give GAI further business.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Josh

Whenever I am buying graded cards I skip right pass the GAI ones. Even if it's a card I want I tell myself it is a crapshoot. I lost 3k on a couple cards that were in GAI holders and I cracked them out to send in to PSA. No need to finish the story.

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Posted By: Rhys

This board has always been an SGC love fest. I like SGC because you can buy cards that are legitimate 2's and 3's which are graded 1's and 1.5's all day long so they are great for buying. They know their vintage card issues but they needlessly hammer cards and your bottom line will probably suffer on resale, but they dont make as many mistakes as the others even though they have graded restored/trimmed cards in the past and have lost people's orders at their office but none of the grading companies are perfect.

Rhys

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Posted By: James Feagin

I agree with Rhys. I will buy SGC for my collection, knowing half of them are undergraded. When the time comes to sell, I will crack and re-submit to PSA and get higher grades and more $$$. Tougher grading is not better grading. BTW, GAI's CS is nauseating.

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Posted By: Brian

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

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Posted By: leon

Please email me before you post anymore....thanks much....

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Best option, quit collecting slabbed cards, break out the ones you already have that are graded. Collect cards, not slabs. Mr. McKee is right when he suggests that grading companies should only grade as to whether a card is authentic, or not....

Next best, if you must collect slabbed cards, go with SGC. They know what they're doing.

And if you're going to be selling your slabbed cards in the near future, you might consider that with some sets PSA cards sell slightly better than SGC, and much better than other graders' slabs.

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Posted By: Matt R

First, I would like to thank you for the autographed postcard you sent to me when I wrote to you 22 years ago. I still have it and it's a prized piece in my collection. I didn't even have to pay for it. That was very generous of you.

However, you said this:

"And for the record, I am not getting into a peeing match with you, just voicing my opinions on grading services, since you started this thread claiming you have "the truth" about GAI."

I'm sorry Mr. Musial, but I did not state that I HAD the "truth" about GAI. I was asking for other people's opinions or facts about GAI. I was trying to decide between sending my future cards to either GAI or SGC. So far the opinions on GAI haven't really been positive. I do not know how you could have read my post as some type of endorsement of GAI. So, to put it into terms that are easier for you to comprehend, I was asking about the truth of GAI (ie are they a third rate company etc.). You seem to read my posts and try to jump in so that you can prove that my Goudey Ruth card is worthless. I do not understand your obsession with trying to prove that my Babe Ruth card is not legitimate. Why are you so obsessed with my card? Are you envious of it? I don't know what your collection consists of but perhaps my Ruth card is better than any card in your collection? Are you a Red Sox fan? Again, why the obsession with my card? If you do not want to read about it you can simply move your mouse and the arrow on your screen will move around to other exciting things for you to click on instead of my posts. You and several others on the PSA board seemed to thoroughly enjoy insulting me as well as my card. Is it possible for you to leave me alone? You seem to be stalking me online. It's really creepy and it's the reason for my hostile posts. It's gotten to the point that I would not entirely shocked if you showed up at my house to argue about it. Of course the best part is that you say that I'm the crazy one. Please, just go back to the CU board and continue to troll on their website. I'm here to discuss vintage cards peacefully. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Also, I believe you've already been informed of this, but posting anonymously is not allowed.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Three same opinion posts on the PSA (or any) chat board doesn't make it a majority opinion.

Besides, a large amount of cards currently in PSA holders were authenticated/examined by Mike Baker, so PSA collectors are putting down their own product when they put down Baker's abilities.

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Matt

Are saying that's the "consensus" on the Memorabilia and sports card forum?

Or a quote of one or two people?

edit: used wrong adjective - also - on the Gem issue - Gem grading "can" spot a fake and they're not idiots - of course your sub is gonna be rejected - the ones that get out are probably either their cards or from one of their "regular" volume submitters of trimmed and bogus garbage. I don't think you're part of the "club" if ya get my drift? This is my intuitive take on them - not based on any facts.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

sold me a slabbed card!
what a pal!

Dan's mom-RIP!

BcD

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Posted By: mike rothstein

"Besides, a large amount of cards currently in PSA holders were authenticated/examined by Mike Baker, so PSA collectors are putting down their own product when they put down Baker's abilities."

Plifter doesn't speak for all members at the CU forum.

Most collectors who've been around the hobby know that Mike Baker was one of the original graders at PSA and an immensely competent grader at GAI.

Some of the things that sunk GAI had more to do with poor customer service ranging from, losing or misplacing submissions to include their pack grading division and later the appearance of impropriety with respect to grades given to "certain" cards.

The whole moving issue appeared to be a bonehead PR nightmare for them - so that their overall image was more like the Beverly Hillbillies were running the shop?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My favorite was when Jethro told someone high-falutin' that he was training to be a brain surgeon. The man said, "Oh, that's interesting. What medical school are you attending?" "Granny's learnin' me in the kitchen," Jethro responded.

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Now that's funny!

Reminds me of when GAI was in the midst of their "moving" debacle - and they said they were having computer/phone problems - my first thought was - who's their IT guy? Jethro? And who's running customer relations? Granny?

Now on the "movin' on up to the east side" - it made me think of the original "clan" over at GAI - i.e. Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker.

So - my ballad to GAI would start: (sung to the ballad of the Beverly Hillbillies)

Come listen to a story about a man named Steve
took a hike from PSA with somethin' up his sleeve,
with a man named Baker...they formed a brand a new crew...
and they started GAI but they didn't have a clue.

Holders that is - Silver flips - Half grades.

Well the first thing ya know, GAI is losin' mail...

I think ya get the gist.

GAI had some really good people in the beginning - but somewhere along the way - it just didn't come together I guess.

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Posted By: Matt R

Mike, of course my statements about the PSA board members opinions are based on the flame fest that I received over my Ruth card. To come to a consensus we would have to take a poll of a random sample of members that have used both services. There certainly are several that were anti GAI. I know their fiasco when they relocated left a lot of people bitter. I don't understand why that would affect their grading skills and the resale value of their cards but that seems to be the situation on the market now.

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Posted By: Joann

Mike R - GREAT post. hahaha. Shoot. I wanted you to finish the Beverly Hillbillies song. Nice.

As to SGC, I wholly agree with James and Rhys upthread as to undergrading. I like their holders a ton better than PSA, and their submission process (no extensive box label requirements, no club to join and having to submit 6 at once) is much much easier to use.

But their desire to be the baddest ass in the land as far as tough grading is a real issue with me. Grading should be accurate, not "tough". A wrong grade is a wrong grade, and the undergrading tendencies of one company should be considered as unhealthy as the overgrading tendencies of another company.

In the end maybe it will work out just as Rhys has mentioned above. The market will take care of it regardless of chatboard opinions. I guess that's a new spin on it. Buy SGC and flip for the higher grade, similar to buying raw and grading. SGC sellers will then try to get the higher prices for their cards based on true grade, but probably won't get them. Then maybe SGC might need to adjust. Interesting. We'll see.

I used to send borderline 1 cards to SGC knowing they could get the 1.5, whereas PSA being forced to choose between a 1 and a 2 would probably pick the 1. But with PSA introducing half grades, even this is no longer a reason.

I really really like SGC a ton - by far my favorite - for everything but their actual grading. I don't want to have decent cards get hammered so they can thump their chest about being the toughest graders.

J

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Graded cards in my collection:

SGC 523
PSA 7
GAI 1

Guess that says it all.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Mike Rothstein!!!

Mike, no long rambling letters--I miss them! Hope you are well.....and you are of course absolutely right. Mike Baker is the best grader in the hobby.....and if they don't believe us then ask the most knowledgeable person that posts here on cards and grading--Kevin Saucier. He would tell you the same thing.

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Posted By: jeff

For the record, SGC graders do not use hammers during the grading process, and "decent" is not a grade.

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Posted By: Joann

Jeff,

I apologize for any confusion I may have caused by using the phrases "hammer" and "decent" in a grading thread. They were, of course, rhetorical devices and I had no idea that anyone think that I used them for their literal meaning. But you did, and now you've wasted your valuable time clearing up a misconception that did not exist.

Again I apologize, and will try to make my posts much much simpler in the future to avoid any additional confusion.

Joann

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Posted By: dan mckee

Steve I must chime in, I too care little about centering in my topps and bowman sets. Corners and no creases are much more important to me. Dan.

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Posted By: Scott Mt Joy

While I agree SGC has been viewed as a hard on grading many cards. My last three PSA subs have been hammered hard, on one of them a 33 card sub, I had nearly every card grading a grade higher. A lot of the recent subs have been a lot harder on the grades so maybe PSA is moving closer to SGC in how they grade.

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Hi Jim

I sent you one back in January - did not get a response.

I'm just gonna have to send you another LONG one!

mike

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Joann

That was exactly what I was thinking - if SGC is dealing lemons? Make lemonade.

And to be honest - unless one is buying cards to flip? The holder speaks for itself - one knows the card is authentic and archived.

The grade? Kind of arbitrary in my mind if ya know what I mean?

mike

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Matt

My email address is in my bio information - contact me and we'll go from there.

The grading skills of a company is only one factor in the "perception" of a grading card consumer.

IMO - perception is reality in the minds of many and how they buy.

If the word gets out that there's roaches in every box of Kellogg's Raisan Bran - what's gonna happen to the sale/resale of that product?

And on the CU board and their relative attitude towards the GAI product?

If ya go into the Coca Cola plant and try to engage them in a discussion about Pepsi? I think ya get my point?

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Posted By: Steve

Besides, a large amount of cards currently in PSA holders were authenticated/examined by Mike Baker, so PSA collectors are putting down their own product when they put down Baker's abilities.



I respectfully disagree with that statement, when Baker WORKED for PSA he was simply a grader, At GAI he was a part owner and thus had an
interest in slabbing cards. Not saying that he graded and slabbed altered cards on purpose but it is what it is.


To be known as the 'best grader in the hobby' and have all the problem cards in GAI holders doesnot mean that the cards he graded in PSA holders are as bad.

JMO

Steve

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Posted By: leon

My guess is that Mike didn't do all, or most of, the grading after GAI got on their feet initially. I would be surprised if he did a lot of grading, actually. It was either 1 or 2 Nationals ago that I spoke with him at length about GAI, in person. It was my impression that he was going to get back into the actual grading of the cards as he reads different message boards and does know what goes on and what people are saying, which leads to business-good or bad. I don't know any of this to be absolute but I believe that is what he told me. It was in my questioning of him (in a friendly manner)about the seemingly lack of quality control in the grading dept that prompted his response. I think if you search long enough on this board you can probably see where I spoke about it right after our conversation. I am too lazy to search but what I believe I remember is above. GAI cards do tend to sell at a discount to the other top grading companies and that can't be good for them. While on the topic I think it would be great for the top 3-4 grading companies to get together and form a grading committee about what constitutes a certain grade and so forth. Maybe we could lead the charge in pushing for it? (that's a joke) ..regards

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Posted By: mike rothstein

"While on the topic I think it would be great for the top 3-4 grading companies to get together and form a grading committee about what constitutes a certain grade and so forth."

That would be like getting a room full of politicians together and try to agree on what the definition of "is" is.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think the real truth about GAI is that they will finally be open on Monday.

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's funny, I heard Tuesday.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

No, Barry, you heard wrong. It most definitely is Monday. Or Monday. Or Monday.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's like waiting for Godot for them to open.

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Posted By: Steve

I'd reply here but then I'd be accused of perpetuating this nonsense.

Oh well too bad I will.



Is it Monday yet?


Steve

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Posted By: Bob

I am really thrilled to read all the "I wouldn't touch a card in a GAI holder" crapola. If you guys are not being hypocritical then I guess I should be able to pick up some nice cards in GAI holders in the future...

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Posted By: mike rothstein

I think that's a bit of a generalization.

Not all were criticizing the potential of what hides within a GAI holder.

The issue - as I see it - with GAI, is the perception of a company being run rather poorly.

We've all either read or heard of the disasters pertaining to their service. Add to that, some individuals believing that the grading process has been "influenced" and the perception is fear in what one might have.

I - personally - respect Mike Baker and his ability to lead a team of graders - but that's only part of the equation.

One can be the finest heart surgeon on the planet - but kill one patient and if word gets out? Perception will overtake reality unfortunately. And we all know what fear does in business.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bob, it's a crapshoot with GAI however I agree that if you trust your eyes you can get a steal with buying GAI. Discounts of at least one grade are commonplace and most of their cards are fine. Of course, I'd feel safer with older GAI graded cards as the company seemed to be competently run a few years ago (certainly not anymore). In the past 6 months I sent my last 4 GAI cards in to SGC for cross (they were purchased in 04-05) and two crossed over with the same grade and the other two were reduced half a grade. Had I sold the cards in their GAI holders they'd be worth significantly less than what they are worth now, residing in SGC holders. Plus, if I have a problem with the holders I don't have to wait until Monday to get in touch with the company now.

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Posted By: barrysloate

There are plenty of nice GAI cards out there that are correctly graded. However, you have to look at them more closely, and you will find some obvious mistakes.

Like they say, buy the card, not the holder.

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Posted By: Red

That's a big problem with GAI being able to make it. A lot of their cards are only being bought in order to cross over to SGC and PSA. When that happens if the cards don't cross consistently then people will be more conservative when buying GAI cards the next time. You can do quite well if you're good at grading and know why certain cards might be in their holders. Some cards are easy to grade and will consistently get similar grades from all three services. Cards with subjective issues, major or minor, usually wind up in the holder of the company that will give the card the highest grade. If you don't know much about grading or the card you're looking at and try crossing one of these to a tougher company you won't have much luck. People are willing to take chances in order to make or save a few bucks, but they've got to realize that the people they're buying these cards from might be aware of the same game.

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Posted By: Brian

I have seen many cards that I need in GAI holders -- I have never bought a single one. No sense in rolling the dice. After the 1955 Bowman stories, I don't even look anymore.

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Posted By: Jason Silvey

While I was browsing at a show today, I took a look at a 1915 CJ graded a GAI 8 of a Kansas City player. I'd don't even remember the player because I had no intention of buying the card. After a quick once over I noticed the card was missing half of the "K" in Kansas on the front due to paper loss. I could see this while it still in the dealer's case. I guess I shouldn't say I'd never own a GAI card, but it definitely not be one graded above a 2 or 3.

Jason

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Posted By: Steve

but they've got to realize that the people they're buying these cards from might be aware of the same game.


Agreed, not only might they be aware they are aware.


Steve

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Posted By: Bob

I crossed over a large number of GAI and PSA holdered cards to SGC recently. Of the GAI cards, a few went up, a larger number stayed the same, an equal number went down a half grade and a handful were not graded because they would have been lower than a half grade of difference. One T210 Old Mill which I bought from a board member on the BST over a year ago and looked very nice was not crossed over because "color added."

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

they are fine and like all grading companies regardless, you should know what you are buying. If the card seems not good despite whatever grade , dont buy it. You have to be happy with it unless you are selling it.

GAI has has several key cards in holders. The new holders look relly nice and I ahve a Griffith portrait in a 7 that is stunning and I do not want it in another holder.