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  #1  
Old 04-17-2017, 04:25 PM
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Ted Zanidakis
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Default Let's give Barney Pelty some respect....show us some of his cards

You could say that Barney Pelty was a "hard-luck" guy pitching for the St Louis Browns (1903 - 1912). His career ERA is better than many......2.63
Better career ERA than Sandy Koufax (2.76), Tom Seaver (2.86), Juan Marichal (2.89), Bob Gibson (2.91), Carl Hubbell (2.98), Lefty Grove (3.05).

Pelty's career W-L record is 92-117. Only because his team didn't consistently produce enough runs to win many low-scoring games. Imagine what
his W-L record would have been if he was on a better hitting team ?

His best season was in 1906....W-L 16-11, and ERA = 1.59

Anyhow, on display here are some of the cards which I have of Barney. And, how about showing us your variety of Barney Pelty cards.


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TED Z
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:34 PM
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:56 PM
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Default Browns ...

Contributions from T207
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File Type: jpg Pelty-All.jpg (73.7 KB, 170 views)
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
You could say that Barney Pelty was a "hard-luck" guy pitching for the St Louis Browns (1903 - 1912). His career ERA is better than many......2.63
Better career ERA than Sandy Koufax (2.76), Tom Seaver (2.86), Juan Marichal (2.89), Bob Gibson (2.91), Carl Hubbell (2.98), Lefty Grove (3.05).
Ted, it seems to me that you are comparing apples to oranges when you compare a dead-ball-era pitcher's ERA to a post-War-live-ball-era pitcher's ERA. It makes more sense to me to compare Pelty's 2.63 ERA to the likes of Joss-1.89, M. Brown-2.06, Matty-2.13, Waddell-2.16, Plank-2.35, etc.
Val
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:19 AM
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I'm cheating here; this isn't a card, but I think it's worth including in this thread. It is page 149 of The National Game by Alfred Spink, published in 1910, showing a 1904 Carl Horner image of Pelty in uniform:
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File Type: jpg AL StL Pelty Horner portrait.jpg (69.5 KB, 132 views)
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:01 AM
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Ted Zanidakis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
Ted, it seems to me that you are comparing apples to oranges when you compare a dead-ball-era pitcher's ERA to a post-War-live-ball-era pitcher's ERA. It makes more sense to me to compare Pelty's 2.63 ERA to the likes of Joss-1.89, M. Brown-2.06, Matty-2.13, Waddell-2.16, Plank-2.35, etc.
Val

OK good buddy, I'll play your ERA game to name a few......

Rube Marquard = 3.08

Jack Chesbro = 2.68

Jack Coombs = 2.78

Jack Quinn = 3.29

Vic Willis = 2.63

Barney Pelty = 2.63


I think it's a little unfair to compare Pelty to guys like....Mordecai Brown....Joss....Matty....Plank....Waddell


Take care,

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Old 04-18-2017, 10:15 AM
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Deadball ERAs are uniformly lower. Why?

Simple. The gloves in that era were made for errors. Errors lead to unearned runs. Unearned runs lead to lower ERAs.

I propose yet another new stat, the URA or Unearned Run Average, which in effect would be a team fielding indicator. Team URAs might have a lower standard deviation than pitcher's ERAs in any given era. If so, the URA might be useful in comparing pitchers from different eras by applying the following formula for pitchers:

their ERA + their URA = their RA or Run Average/9 innings.

Then again it might not be useful..

But imagine, if only the Washington team was equipped with modern gloves behind WaJo, would he have been less effective as a pitcher, probably not, but Washington would have won more games and Walter would not have had enough fingers for his World Series rings.

I think I have proven my point. If you get it, let me know.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
OK good buddy, I'll play your ERA game to name a few......

Rube Marquard = 3.08
Jack Chesbro = 2.68
Jack Coombs = 2.78
Jack Quinn = 3.29
Vic Willis = 2.63

Barney Pelty = 2.63

I think it's a little unfair to compare Pelty to guys like....Mordecai Brown....Joss....Matty....Plank....Waddell

Take care,

TED Z
.
Hey good buddy, let's continue to play your ERA game. The reasons I didn't use the pitchers you mentioned above in my comparisons are:

Marquard - N/A as his career spanned both thee dead-ball and live-ball eras.
Coombs & Quinn - N/A as these pitchers are not HOFers.
Chesbro & Willis - Their ERAs don't support my contention!

Ted, of course I "cherry picked" HOF pitchers whose ERAs supported my contention - Mama didn't raise no dummy! Much better to use "selective" facts than "alternative" facts!

And Ted, how is it unfair that I compared Pelty's ERA to the ERAs of HOFers of the dead-ball era in which they all had their careers? And, do you really believe your comparison of Pelty's ERA to the ERAs of live-ball-era HOF pitchers is more meaningful?
Take care,
Val
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:21 AM
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Here are a few more
Attached Images
File Type: jpg M116 pelty front.jpg (51.9 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg 1910-10 Sweet Caporal Pin Pelty .jpg (25.7 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg 1910-12 Sweet Caporal Disc Pelty front.jpg (72.0 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg T204 Pelty front.jpg (9.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg T207 Pelty front.jpg (42.8 KB, 47 views)
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