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  #31  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:57 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbegs View Post
Just to weigh in a little...

I'm probably a good example of why you can't just blanket ban people based on criteria. I'm recently more active in the hobby after an absence, I have a low eBay feedback score (68) and I like to buy vintage cards.
You have not given any good example or reason that excludes existing problems from easy remediation.

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 04-21-2017 at 07:58 AM.
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:31 AM
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I don't understand the hostility directed at PWCC for at least trying something. I have had real issues with them in the past unrelated to this issue, but it seems like some of you are expecting them to solve eBay weaknesses and cure a few diseases at the same time.

It may be a surprise to some of you, but PWCC can't tell eBay how to run their business. Yes, there is a problem with apparent shill bidding and BS bid retractions on some of their items. Maybe a not insignificant number of their items. There are consignors out there who will have friends and family, and maybe even themselves with alternative accounts, pump up the price of their auction items. This is an auction fact of life. Happens on eBay and happens everywhere else. Could happen at the church auction down the street. The guy bidding against you may have no interest other than helping someone else make more money. Deal with it. It's reality.

As far as bid retractions go, I have no evidence that they are worse for PWCC than any other major card seller. Nor do I have any belief that they are any worse than say some dude selling 10,000 hummels or 10,000 watches a month on ebay. Game playing will go on. If eBay allows people to retract bids with impunity, and PWCC reaches out to them to do something, I take this as both a tacit admission that there is a problem here that should be addressed and a positive sign that Brent thinks his company's credibility is taking a meaningful hit.

My final point is that I DO NOT find 5 bid retractions a day high for an outfit that often has 5,000+ items listed at a time. That might get 25,000+ bids in a day I'd guess. 5 or 10 or even 20 of those bids are retracted. I'd say at least 50% of those could have been genuine errors. Doesn't seem overly crazy to me.

Long winded way of saying that it seems many of you have real problems with eBay and blame PWCC for them.

If someone is retracting more than 5 times on PWCC in a 3 or 6 month period they should be barred from any PWCC auctions for 6 months. Although that probably wouldn't solve the problem anyway, as a person who wants to defraud others can just open a new account.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-21-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:37 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
If someone is retracting more than 5 times on PWCC in a 3 or 6 month period they should be barred from any PWCC auctions for 6 months. Although that probably wouldn't solve the problem anyway, as a person who wants to defraud others can just open a new account.
And they can stop that also. Require them to buy and receive 10 feedbacks before being allowed to bid. Stop it, no. Make it much harder, yes. Easily, without getting EBay involved.

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 04-21-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
And they can stop that also. Require them to buy and receive 10 feedbacks before being allowed to bid. Stop it, no. Make it much harder, yes. Easily, without getting EBay involved.
That's true, but I would be hardly surprised to learn that some dudes have been carefully cultivating 10 or 12 separate eBay accounts over the course of a number of years to deal with precisely those kinds of issues.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-21-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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+2.7 In my experiences almost every time I think of something,
it has been thought of before, usually much before.

Back to the subject. Of course PWCC is an advertiser so that is my biased in it. My view is PWCC is headed in the right direction but as with most others I wish it were a bit quicker. From recent, first hand experience I know change takes time on the bay...

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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
That's true, but I would be hardly surprised to learn that some dudes have been carefully cultivated 10 or 12 separate eBay accounts over the course of a number of years to deal with precisely those kinds of issues.
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Last edited by Leon; 04-21-2017 at 09:50 AM.
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  #36  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
And they can stop that also. Require them to buy and receive 10 feedbacks before being allowed to bid. Stop it, no. Make it much harder, yes. Easily, without getting EBay involved.
If someone is inclined to shill their own auction, requiring 10 feedbacks is pretty meaningless.
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:43 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
If someone is inclined to shill their own auction, requiring 10 feedbacks is pretty meaningless.
You are not going to stop the one guy that wants to shill one auction to sell the one baseball card he owns and will ever own, but you can make it harder for the chronic offenders.

It is still one extra step. One extra PayPal account sign up. 10 fake transactions per account, time to leave the feedback, or payment on a real item they likely don't want. Trails and evidence of fraud. One extra EBay registration.The accounts will eventually be blocked for non paying bids, shilling, and retractions.

Would you want to do this for every auction you list an item in, every 30 days for multiple accounts? The fact that it can be circumvented doesn't mean it is meaningless. The option has been there for 20 years for a reason.

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 04-21-2017 at 10:43 AM.
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
You are not going to stop the one guy that wants to shill one auction to sell the one baseball card he owns and will ever own, but you can make it harder for the chronic offenders.

It is still one extra step. One extra PayPal account sign up. 10 fake transactions per account, time to leave the feedback, or payment on a real item they likely don't want. Trails and evidence of fraud. One extra EBay registration.The accounts will eventually be blocked for non paying bids, shilling, and retractions.

Would you want to do this for every auction you list an item in, every 30 days for multiple accounts? The fact that it can be circumvented doesn't mean it is meaningless. The option has been there for 20 years for a reason.
I get it that you are trying to find a solution to the problem, but many of the worst chronic offenders of massive retractions have feedback in the thousands and still shill/retract with impunity. As far as requiring 10 feedbacks creating evidence of fraud, again, there are many, many accounts on eBay with feedback in the hundreds or thousands that are on the site despite many retractions.

If eBay doesn't care about accounts with feedback in the thousands that rampantly shill auctions, they are going to be vigilant about someone with 10 feedbacks?

As far as non-paying bids, why would anyone buy an expensive item then not pay if the goal if just to build up your suggested 10 feedbacks. The easy way around that would simply be to buy 10 items at 99 cents or "buy" from yourself/a friend with a different account to simply build up feedback.

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-21-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:41 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post

As far as non-paying bids, why would anyone buy an expensive item then not pay if the goal if just to build up your suggested 10 feedbacks. The easy way around that would simply be to buy 10 items at 99 cents or "buy" from yourself/a friend with a different account to simply build up feedback.

I've been convinced for a while that some of these said consignors/consignees have multiples people/multiple accounts bidding up items

edited: the watch count alone, having HUNDREDS more than others sellers with the exact same items, lends credence to this theory
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Last edited by Republicaninmass; 04-21-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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  #40  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:42 AM
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Meaningless window dressing, the asinine equivalent of saying that you are cracking down on drunk driving because you only allow a driver ten DUIs before suspending his license. Here's an idea: bar any bidder with more than two retractions and do it now. All this waiting is nonsense. No amount of double-talk and graphics conceals the fact that your auctions are riddled with fraud, that you know it, and that you would rather aid the crooks in stealing from your customers than resolve the problem.
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