Drum tobacco

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Posted By: Terry

Does anyone know what the package looked like that DRUM backed T206's were issued in? Was it a soft pack or hard pack??

Terry

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Terry, it is believed they came in 10 count boxes, but to date none have been found.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Terry - Drum cigarette cards most likely came in slide and shell 10-count cigarette packs. They most certainly did not come in soft tobacco pouches. Below is the only known Drum cigarette box I have ever encountered. As you will note, this Drum box was manufactured by Drummond (which also produced Cannon cigarettes, etc). Drummond was sold to the American Tobacco Company in 1898 and all cigarette production was shifted from St. Louis (where Drummond was located) to Virginia. The box pictured below was manufactured prior to 1898 and hence, would not have held a T205 or T206. However, the graphics would probably have been identical.



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For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Since there are two different sizes of Drum pouches, what is the possibility of cards being put in the 2.5 oz size pouch? The smaller size pouch was the one on the 206 museum website.

I'm still having a lot of trouble with the belief t205's and 206's came in boxes of Drum smokes when there isn't a single known example from the 20th century!!!

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Absolutely did not come in the Drum pouches. Why advertise "Drum Cigarettes" on the back of the cards if you are not going to package your cards in the cigarettes? The fact that there are currently no known 1910 era Drum cigarette packs should not be a determining factor. Drum was a small brand without the widespread distribution that Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, etc enjoyed. It is not unfathomable that no cigarette boxes have surfaced to date. To add more credence to the my statement that Drum did not package cards in the tobacco pouches, ATC's own records from the era show that the pouches were not even manufactured or distributed during the time period consistent with the Drum backed T206's, while Drum cigarette packs were.

There are also no known Hindu cigarette boxes, no known Kotton, no known Red Sun, etc. In fact, until this year, there were no known Fan cigarette boxes, and now an image of one has surfaced. New discoveries are made all the time, so the fact that we do not yet have a Drum cigarette back really means nothing. In fact, if there is one correlation between the number of surviving cards and the numbering of surviving cigarette/tobacco packs that correspond to the cards, its that the most common backs are the most common cigarette packs. The rarer the back, the rarer the cigarette pack to locate. Why? Because less were made, sold and saved for 100 years.

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For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

It was a roll-your-own CIGARETTE brand.

If there aren't any examples of a Drum box, then how do we absolutely really 100% know this?

A Hindu box was just offered in an auction about a year or so ago.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Drum was not a roll-your-own brand. Drum flake was just one product. ATC records clearly indicate that Drum cigarettes were manufactured between 1909-1913. Drum smoking tobacco was not. Also, the Hindu pack sold last year was the wrong pack. We know what the correct Hindu packs look like because of the Hindu ad's that depict cards coming out of packs. To date, none have been discovered.

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For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

How do you figure Drum wasn't a roll-your-own brand? You just got done slamming Drum rolling papers "tobacco wrappers" in another post.

And as mentioned in that other post, my Drum pouch has a 1910 tax stamp on it with no overstamp! And it has been appraised by quite a few established cigarette/tobacco card dealers telling me it's the real deal.

I think it's ridiculously crazy that an 1890 Drummond tobacco works half a box lid is being bridged to the ATC, 1910 and the T206 set.

Until a legitimate 20th century 1910 Drum cigarette BOX comes out of an attic somewhere, I'm not buying your theory.

Sorry!!!

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

I think it's hilarious to hear that the graphics on the 1890 Drum lid should be the same. That's like saying if my Aunt had a set she'll look like my Grandpa in 20 years.

Drummond didn't even exist anymore in 1910...old man Drummond wasn't alive...so why should we all assume the box or anything associated with it would look the same??

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

T206 cards were used as stiffeners, that's why they were inserted into slide & shell boxes. I agree with Jon about what he said about Drum pouches.

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Posted By: J Hull

What Jon said.

Also, for internal revenue purposes each type of tobacco product was strictly defined by the federal government (cigarettes, cheroots, little cigars, cigars, snuff, plug, cut tobacco, granulated tobacco, etc.). The American Tobacco Company couldn't just say "cigarettes" if what they were selling was granulated smoking tobacco. The two had distinct and different tax rates and regulations. The back of the card says "cigarettes" -- I'll take the plain meaning of the word. Oh, and Jon's considerable expertise, too.


Jamie

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Yep, they were definitely used to stiffen packs. They were also quite an advertising tool as we all read in that 1909 newspaper article with the boys on the streets.

But how can the Polar Bear cards in the T205/206, Honest LC in the T205/227, the number of Duke Mixture, Scrap Iron and other raw tobacco brands from non-sport and sports issues all be justified then?

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Posted By: barry arnold

I agree with Jamie.
Jon has been researching this topic more than any of the rest of us and has
published well in this arena.

best,

barry

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Jamie...
The word cigarette is used on the back of the Drum Granulated Tobacco rolling papers pack.

If this wasn't a type of cigarette then why does it say cigarette?...and how can there be Drum Gruanulated Tobacco cigarette papers if it's not used for cigarettes?

I'm definitely not questioning Jon's years of research and time. I've visited his website quite a bit and I've found it to be the best reference spot on the internet cigarette cards/packs. Not too long ago, I had a question about an Old Judge box that I've had in my collection...I went to his website and then I came here!

I'm just having trouble understanding the why not's because...if there weren't Drum tobacco pouches around I wouldn't question this. If the Drum 206's weren't yellowed like the lettering on Polar Bear cards I wouldn't question this. If there was just one known example of a Drum Cigarette box from the 20th century let alone 1910 I wouldn't question this...but there isn't!

And if one ever shows up, I'd venture to say it'll be worth a lot more than the estimated value given on the website!

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Posted By: Mike D.

Rolling papers for cigarettes, some seem familiar.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Collection-76-Diff-Cigarette-Rolling-Papers_W0QQitemZ200314324059QQihZ010QQcategoryZ735 63QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

That's a sweet collection! I only see one ATC Drum. The blue Drum is the Douwe-Egberts brand.

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Posted By: J Hull

NYHF, when you point out the chew and smoke brands associated with sport and nonsport cards you're making the case for those of us who are disagreeing with you. None of them say cigarette. They say scrap, or long cut tobacco, or plug, or twist, or something other than cigarette. If you can point to any loose tobacco product brand that's advertised on the back of a tobacco card via the word "cigarette," I'd very much like to see it.

I think it's probably also worth pointing out that Factory 25, 2nd District of Virgina was a cigarette factory. Very, very few, if any, loose tobacco products were ever manufactured there. In fact, I think none were. ATC used the Mayo branch for the manufacture of those products in Richmond (which was Factory 42, 2nd District of Virginia). What factory designation is included on your Drum pouch? That's much more valuable information than the tax stamp date. By law, if the pouch is 1910-era, it had to contain the factory designation, as did any insert inside the package.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

My pouch reads Factory 39, 4th Dist, NC...but I've never said that the pouch in my collection has a card inside. I always just thought it was a great item to go along with my cards. And at the end of the day, I just want to see a Drum cigarette box from the 20th century!!

IMHO, we're splitting hairs when it comes to exact wording on the backs of these cards. I have several T59 flags with Sweet Caporal Tobacco Wrappers on the back. Do I dare assume those came in packs of rolling papers similar to the Drum and Dukes Mixture papers? Has anyone seen a pack of Sweet Caps Tobacco Wrappers?...I never have!

Whether they're cigarettes, scrap, plug, chew, cheroots or blunts it's all in the products name. There could not have been any government regulations on what the cards exactly said. If it was true, the Sweet Caporal Tobacco Wrappers cards wouldn't say "All Tobacco, No Paper, Not a Cigarette" on it. They would say something like "Ask Dad who has the best wrappers".

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Just because you have a 1910 tax stamp without overprinting, doesn't mean anything. It's very easy to remove the overprinting. 1910 tax stamps were overprinted with dates 1911-1916. If it was a 1909 tax stamp, there would be no argument, because they never overprinted onto this tax stamp.

http://cycleback.com/packdate.html

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Yeah, but allegedly 1909 stamps weren't only used in 1909. Okay...so how easy is it to remove overprinting off a 100 year old thin and brittle piece of blue paper?...LoL...I'm sure it's as easy as it would be to remove a cancellation mark off a 150 year old stamp!

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

WHO KNOWS!!!...this is right from that link...

**( IMPORTANT Cycleback Note: Tax stamps could be used past their printed date. For example, 1909 stamps have been found on packs from the late 1910s.

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Posted By: Scott B.

I found this thread very interesting. NYHighlanderFan is trying to bring up new ideas into those so called "theories" but got shot down right away since Jon "the expert" disagrees with his ideas and Jon's believers just basically repeats what Jon said and keep on hammering on NYHighlanderFan.

NYHighlanderFan, you are just wasting your time. Experts don't like new ideas or accept new possibilities. The only way to prove your Drum pouch theory is to open your pouch and pull a Drum back in front them. But don't forget those Piedmont 12 counts packs, there were at least two known packs that had T206 inside but "experts" believe those two packs had been tampered with even they own by diff collectors, from diff sources and opened in diff time period. So even if you have the guts opening your Drum pouch and hoping to prove your theory, either you pull a Drum back card or not it would not do any good to you. Their "theories" are set in stone, it can't be changed.

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Posted By: J Hull

I think the "experts" are also hopeful that innocent and unknowing folks don't waste their money buying GAI "authenticated" Drum pouches with hopes that a) a T206 card could be inside, or b) that packs like this once contained T206 cards.

Btw, I'm all in favor of theories. We have a lot of extremely good threads on this board full of theories. I think this theory just needs more evidence under it though, which I'd be happy to read about and discuss in this thread, when it's posted.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Scott,

I, too, am certainly open to new suggestions and all theories, but Drum tobacco pouches containing cards is against the weight of all current evidence.

Your statement regarding Piedmont 12-count packs has a glaring ommission. There is, absolutely no way possible, that a 12 count cigarette pack was issued in 1909, 1910, 1911, 1912 - or any year prior to 1917. This is pure fact simply because it was illegal to issue a cigarette pack in a 12 count configuration before 1917. However, I, as well as other hear, recognized that there have been claims that cards were pulled from 12 count cigarette packs, so we offered other possible arguments for how this could be so. Certainly the most obvious is that the pack was tampered with. However, the other argument put forth was that T206s were in some instances inserted into packs in later years after 1911. Certainly our evidence and arguments must have been strong enough that Rob edited the REA description last auction.

Do I consider myself to be very knowledgeable on baseball related cigarette packs? Absolutely. I've spent years collecting these packs, reading ATC records, researching configuration and countless hours on the phone with long-time cigarette pack collectors outside of the hobby. However, one thing I am not is someone who is unwilling to listen to new theories or new ideas. But, just because Drum pouches have 1910 tax stamps and could fit a card inside does not mean it is a credible theory. Sweet Caporal made "little cigars" (similar to Recruit) in 1910. Does that mean we should automatically assume that T206s with SC backs came in those as well. If you look at the weight of the evidence regarding Drum cigarettes, I think the evidence falls greatly in the favor of my "thoery"...

1.) The back of the Drum cards say "Drum CIGARETTES", not "Drum Tobacco." Note that Polar Bear backed cards, which were packaged in scrap tobacco, say "Polar Bear - The Best SCRAP TOBACCO." They do not say "Polar Bear Cigarettes."

2.) It would have been against the law to package cards advertising cigarettes in a tobacco product. Considering the ATC was already knee deep in trust issues at this point, I seriously doubt the ATC would have willingly brake the law in such an obvious manor.

3.) Drum tobacco pouches were note even produced in the plants that carry the same factory and district codes of the Drum backed T206s.

4.) According to the American Tobacco Companies own distribution records, Drum Cigarettes WERE produced in the same factories as the cards designate on its back.

5.) We have a pre-Drummond merger Drum cigarette box which has been recently discovered.

6.) We have never discovered a Drum cigarette card that exhibits tobacco stains even somewhat similar to Polar Bear cards which were packaged in tobacco pouches

Edited to add: Scott, you also call out us so-called "experts" by stating we are unwilling to listen to new "theories" and just repaeat the same thing over and over again. However, I want you to note that we have provided evidence in government tax codes, a scan of the only known Drum cigarette pack that PRE-dates Drummond's merger to the ATC, federal law, ATC factory records on distribution, etc to support our "theory." Yet, all we get in response to the evidence we have given is a statement from NYhighlanderfan that until he sees a Drum Cigarette pack dating to 1910, he's not buying it and all he repeats is his same statement that Drum tobacco pouches could fit a card inside. If anyone is not willing to listen to a new theory here, it certainly isn't the so-called "experts." I truly wish I had a 1910 Drum cigarette pack to share. Maybe someday I will discover one. Heck, until July of 2008, we didn't even have a pre-1910 Drum cigarette pack to share.

As Jamie noted above, I'm certainly willing to listen to any and all new ideas that come forward. However, give us some evidence - anything.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Since 1887 (Allen & Ginter, Buchner, Kimball, Old Judge, etc.), the initial reason for inserting a BB (or Non-Sports)
card in a cigarette pack was for stiffening of the pack. Prior to these premiums, cigarette packs simply had plain
cardboard in them for this purpose. The 19th Century BB cards were printed on thick cardboard. The early 20th
Century cards (T206's, etc.) on thinner cardboard; therefore, 2 or more cards could be found in a cigarette pack.
The advertising information printed on the backs of these cards was strictly controlled (T-brand, Factory and Dis-
trict designation, etc.). There was a Federal Tobacco law governing this.

The DRUM backed cards were part of a series (which included American Beauty, Broad Leaf and Cycle), designed
by American Lithographic and marketed starting in the Summer of 1910. The American Beauty and Cycle brands
were quite available. Broad Leaf, and especially the DRUM cigarette brands, saw very limited marketing towards
the Fall/Winter of 1910. My theory explaining this....was due to the impending break-up of the American Tobacco
Co. in 1911.

Shown here are the backs of these four T-brands....note the similarity of the design and the fact that all 4 cigar-
ette brands were manufactured in Richmond....Factory 25, 2nd District, VA .




Contrary to the fact that no DRUM cigarette packs has been found, the DRUM backed T206's were indeed inserted
as stiffeners for the typical 10-cigarette (slide & shell) packs.


TED Z

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted - I never even thought of the ABCD connection with the back designs. Also, to add to your scan above:

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks for the "visuals"....your pictures are prettier than mine.

Yes, I have researched my "A-B-C-D" connection (American Beauty-Broad Leaf-Cycle-Drum) quite extensively.
And, I think it provides support for the existence of a DRUM cigarette pack. As I have speculated in the above
post, the DRUM brand of cigarettes was very short-lived (perhaps an experimental product such as the Ty Cobb
Smoking Tobacco).

The American Tobacco Co.....at the end of 1910 and the beginning of 1911.....was in a transitional state due to
its impending break-up. And, this fact is reflected by the scarcity of certain T-brands and their respective T206
cards. T206 examples given......

Broad Leaf 460
LENOX
Piedmont 460 Factory 42
Red HINDU
UZIT.


TED Z

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

NYHighlanderFan: Would love to see you prove us wrong. Would also be the story of the decade if you opened your pouch on National TV and found a T206 card inside. If your pouch had a card in it, I would think you would be able to feel it. It would most likely be on the top or bottom of the pouch and not in the middle. Maybe the members here could offset your loss, only if you found a card inside. Open it on TV, I wish you luck. I believe the reason why you don't want to open the pouch, is because you know there is more of a possibility that it doesn't contain a card.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Let me thank all of you guys for commenting...this has been outstanding!

Jon...please understand that for the past two years I've had a pretty concrete mindset that the Drums were issued inside of pouches...ever since having my Drum pouch examined by who I believe in as solid tobacco/cigarette card dealers at the '07 national. And yeah, it's still a little tough to believe it until a 20th century Drum pack appears. Also knowing that one sold for around 5k within the past year or so doesn't help my mindset on this theory!!...why would an established auction house sell something that wasn't legitimate?

Drum Cigarettes must have been an extremely short-lived brand of smokes...maybe it was brought back by the ATC in '10 & '11 but that's it! Because there's at least proof of Hindu cigarettes via newspapers. Some of those other brands like Uzit and Broadleaf must also have been short-lived.

How about American Beauty smokes?...did they only come in 8-packs?? Are all AB cards slightly narrower than the others? Has anyone ever seen an AB 8-pack???

And as far as Piedmont packs go...regardless of size, I always assumed any Piedmont box with L&M is post-deregulation and therefore has absolutely, positively zero chance of having a card! I always thought it needed to be ATC on the bottom in script for a chance that it held/holds a card.

So...could it be possible that they printed up so many of these cards that they packed them well through the teens??

And one last thing...Jon...you mentioned the Ty Cobb brand...

Is there documentation or actual proof that Ty Cobb tobacco and his card is from 1909-1911?? I wondered about this because was only in the majors for a couple years and wasn't quite the established player to have his own line of tobacco, was he?? The Coupon set came out much later and used the same front. Same with the Victory tobacco set.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Yeah, if anything like this was ever to be opened, it would have to be filmed for every reason you can imagine...good and bad!

I've always looked at the Drum pouch as a cool complimentary to my cards. The factory number on it has definitely made me think about it. The pouch itself is as hard as a brick. It could easily be thrown through a window! I always thought the card would have been shoved down the side.

That's another thing about those Piedmont packs. Photos aren't quite the same as rolling film. I'd be going nuts, high-fives everywhere if someone opened up a cigarette pack and a baseball card was inside.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

NYHighlanderFan,

Hopefully I will respond to each of your questions above but forgive me if I miss one.

Actually, contrary to belief, Drum was not a short lived brand. From all records I have found, Drum was first produced in 1893 (by Drummond), the brand was sold to the ATC in 1898, and the ATC at least produced it between 1909 and 1913. Drum is listed as being distributed in ATC records in 1913. However, I am unsure if Drum was produced between 1898 and 1909, or, as Ted suggested, it was revived in 1909 and then short lived. Another possible theory as to Drum's rarity could related to its desirability. While Piedmont and SC were incredibly popular, brands like Drum, Uzit and Hindu were not. Without great demand, very small amounts might have been produced.

As for American Beauty's, your question is a great one. I have seen both 8 and 20 count packs of AB. 8 count packs were soft packs, and not slide and shells. I don't believe, however, that AB cards were packaged in 8 count packs. Rather, I believe they were packaged in 10-count packs as were the other brands. I don't recall off the top of my head as to whether ATC's records even indicate that 8 count packs were produced during the 1909-1913 era but I do recall that 10 counts most defenately were produced during that period. I am well aware of the rumor that AB's are not as wide as normal T206s so that the cards could fit into the packs. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I can assure you that 10 count packs are just as wide as any other 10 count pack (and therefore an AB card wouldn't need to be less wide to fit) and the 8 count pack is too narrow to fit an AB card. So, I truly believe that the rumor that AB's are less wide to fit into the packs is simply that, a rumor.

Piedmont's could have a card inside even if the pack states L&M at the bottom. I believe that L&M brandishing on the packs first began in 1911.

As for whether the T206s could have been packaged into the teens, well that was the whole REA issue last year. I spoke with both Rob and the owner of the pack at length and I know the owner to be a truthful and stand-up guy. Without a doubt, I believe him that he pulled a T206 from a 12-count pack. However, this still leaves us with a problem. As a matter of law (and this can be easily verified), the US government did not allow for 12 count cigarette packs to be made and sold until 1917. So, if the 12 count Piedmont pack held a card - how did it get there? Through tampering or otherwise. That is a question I cannot answer at all. I guess it is possible that so many T206s were printed, the ATC packaged them until they were completely gone... given away entirely. Maybe this took years? Not long ago, however, I did receive an email from a private collector in Georgia. He had three mint, unopened Piedmont 12 count packs (with correct factory/district codes) still encased in untampered glassine. Based on the speculation, he decided to open two of the three packs. He did not pull a card from either of the two packs.

Lastly - Ty Cobb brand. Yes, there are articles linking the tobacco product to at least 1910. Here is a link to a 1910 write-up. Look at the bottom of the "Stray Topics" section. It notes that a smoking tobacco has been named for Ty Cobb.

http://home.comcast.net/~phlflyer1/baseball/misc/1910_03_05_Tucson_Daily_Citizen_Ty_Cobb_Smoking_To bacco.pdf

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

A little more on Ty Cobb Brand. If you click on this thread and scroll down to Shawn's post of January 26 at 2:15pm, you will note many ads for Ty Cobb Brand that appeared in the Macon Weekly Telgraph in 1910. So, this at least dates the brand to the 1910 era.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1231777035/Re-+Continuing+the+Ty+Cobb-Ty+Cobb+back+debate

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1st....you are confusing Jon's and my posts....I brought up the subject of the Ty Cobb card. So, I'll respond
to you question on this card. We recently had a lengthy thread on this forum regarding the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb
card. Actual newspaper clippings were presented that advertised this card in the mid-1910 time period.

2nd....also, I brought up the reason why I think certain T206's are very scarce (e.g., Broad Leaf 460, Lenox,
Red Hindu, Uzit). These T-brands were produced during the transitional period (late 1910-mid 1911) when the
ATC monopoly was being divested; and therefore, had limited distribution. The rare Piedmont 460/42 cards were
inserted in the Liggett & Myers packs in the Spring of 1911 since ATC had transferred their Piedmont production
to the L&M plant in Durham, NC.

The insertion of T206 cards into cigarette packs came to an end by Summer-Fall of 1911 and were replaced by
Militarymen premiums.


TED Z

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Outstanding...thank You very much for taking the time for such an in-depth response!

I'm sure the questions I had were asked before and as time goes on they'll probably be asked many more times.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Ted...You too...thanks! Yeah, I did confuse posts there for a second.

If the T206 insertion was over (either temporarily or permanently) in the fall of 1911, when did the T205's begin insertion?? Or did you mean any baseball picture? I always thought the 206's were through spring of '11 and then the gold borders took over.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

I missed that post back in January...thanks for sharing it with me. Quite fascinating and mysterious.

Here's my two cents...
It's not a T206 card for several reasons which were all touched on in that thread. Instead, it was a giveaway card that happened to use the same front as so many other tobacco issues...maybe Cobb gave them out to promote the tobacco leading up to its release.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

NYHighlanderFan... that is an interesting theory regarding Ty Cobb (that Cobb gave the card out). As Ted notes in the thread referenced above, I don't think it was contemplated that Cobb, himself, may have given the card out before that add came to light a month back (it was contemplated before that tobacco purchasers handed the card out when people purchased the Ty Cobb product).

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For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

NYHighlanderFan: How much did you pay for the pouch?

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Cobb handing out his Ty Cobb Back cards, that would be cool.. not likely but definately something to think about.

marty

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Posted By: J Hull

One thing that's struck me since we had that discussion of the Cobb tin is that the Ty Cobb backed cards have the factory information on them, Factory 33, 4th District NC. Which matches the information on the surviving Ty Cobb tins. For me, that's some evidence to link the two. But it also raises the point that if the cards were designed as handouts and were not intended to be packed in a tobacco product, why would that say the factory number on them? Perhaps they were designed to be placed in the tins, but then for some reason were not? Or perhaps they really were placed in some small number of tins? Or both?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I think Federal Tobacco laws required that "Factory 33 4th Dist. N.C." was printed on the Ty Cobb back in
anticipation that this card would be a premium associated with the Ty Cobb (pipe) Smoking Tobacco. But,
for whatever reasons this product was not that successful in the marketplace. Initially, I think that these
cards were intended to be in the Tins; but, the few that have been found never were.

TED Z

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Posted By: Shawn

Not sure this helps any, but I thought it was an interesting read...

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

$25...a looonnnng time ago

At the national two years ago, I received value guesstimates (in honor of Paul Harvey) from dealers beginning at $1500 and upwards of $4000 in auction. I was expecting to hear the neighborhood of $500.

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Posted By: Shawn

You guys smack me when you want me to stop posting this kind of stuff!

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Old man Drummond was shut up before he said too much!!...they were probably all loaded off scotch.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

NYHighlanderFan: Then open the pouch! Call your local TV station and open it on the news. If the news shows a card in it, I'll give you $25!

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

LoL...maybe I should go to all the TV stations in the area and see who I can broker a half hour of air time from...then turn around and sell advertising spots for the event. Maybe I can get Miller High Life to buy a one second ad from me!

I have a feeling it might end up being a similar show as the time Geraldo Rivera tried to open up Al Capone's vault in downtown Chicago.

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Posted By: Hal

The March/April 1997 Vintage & Classic Baseball Collector (#10) has an article entitled "Anatomy Of A Find" on page 40 which discussed a find of five of the Ty Cobb back cards (lots 14-18 in REA's June 1997 auction, the description in the catalog also contains some useful info). The VCBC article included a letter the consignor wrote to Rob Lifson in which he stated that his grandfather "was the one who smoked ... the Ty Cobb Tobacco". This would seem to suggest that the cards were somehow related to the Ty Cobb tobacco tins, and were probably available only in Georgia. What do you guys think?