T206 Plank on PSA's website

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Posted By: jackgoodman

from the Mr. X collection looks trimmed to my bespeckled eyes. What do others think?

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4391&universeid=314

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Posted By: Wesley

You might be right, but it is difficult to tell for sure from the scan.

If we can't trust Mr. X and PSA, who can we trust?

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Posted By: scgaynor

PSA must really be feeling the heat to get more submissions in the vintage card market. This whole "Mr X collection" is kind of cheezy. I am all for items having great provenance, but who is Mr X? I can understanding labeling something as "Halper Collection" or "White Mountain" Collection, as it points to a special one time collection of great significance. If all of the cards were 8s and 9s, it would make sense, but not 1's and 4's.

After reading the article, it seems as if they want readers to think that this was the only T206 "set" in existance. A chance to buy a collection like this as one or two lots shows up at least once or twice a year in catalog auctions. Not only that, but it is not really a "find" since the guy who owned it knew exactly what he had and has only had the cards since the 1980s. Last week I made a "find" of my 1984 Topps set that I put together from packs 20 years ago.

This is the type of hype that I would expect from a flea market dealer, not a professional grading company. I certainly would not expect to see something like this from SGC.

Scott

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Posted By: Dave H

I am new to collecting pre-war cards, with interest in T206 and T207. I have been collecting the 1957 Topps set PSA 8 for about 5 years and about half done. Once I finish I am planning to send my slabs back to PSA for reholdering the "Hobson Collection".

I am now only interested in pre-war graded cards if they are SGC and it looks like I made the right decision. This PSA move smells of desperation.

Mr. X will eventually be known. Human beings can't keep their mouths shut. It will be funny to see who it is.

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Posted By: Josh K.

very cheezy - but Im not fooled at all - the collection actually belonged to Mr. T.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I laughed when I read Mr Schwartz's thread about his "find". IMO he should have posted that in the B/S/T section as it was clear he was hyping his "find" to potential buyers in this chatroom. As for PSA putting "Mr. X" on the holders who could blame them? They're in business to make money and if slabbing a high profile card (even if it's only high profile because of who owned it) gets them a little more publicity who cares?

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Come on Scott, where is your sense of adventure?

Just having a common T206 from the Mr.X Collection will lend my collection an sense of mystery that it is lacking right now. A simple Admiral Schlei card in PSA 3 will take on an air of the unknown...nay, even a hint of danger.

I will, no doubt, stay up many a night staring at the slab and pondering the history of the card inside it. Oh if only those cards could talk! What stories they would tell about the mysterious Mr.X!

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Posted By: scgaynor

If it is a sense of adventure that you are looking for, maybe they should put a black cover over the card so not only can you guess at who "Mr X" is, but you can guess at what card is graded.


Scott

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Posted By: al davis

i agree with you, jack. even though it's a blurry scan, the top corners are unnaturally sharp compared to the rounded bottom corners. but psa (piece of sh@t authenticators) needs the hype. so be it.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Scott,
I think that is more adventure that one person could take! Just having the "Mr.X" name on the holder will make a card mysterious enough for me! I may have to get a special box to hold the "Mr.X" card though, as the few other T206's I have may become insanely jealous at having such a prestigious card in their midst.

Have a good night,

Greg

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I take back what I said about PSA. I should have clicked on the link before I posted. I had no idea that they actually put "MR X" on the slab. I thought they put the persons name on the slab, but that MR. X was only being used here. I wonder who's decision it was to put that on the slab? I wonder if there really is a Mr. X?

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Posted By: tjschwartz

Card was already in an aged holder that only said 1911 Eddie Plank. I just had it re-slabbed. The whole idea of Mr. X was mine and Mr. X's. Wanted to have some fun. Am I trying to drum up interest in the collection? YOU BETCHA! What's wrong with that? Don't we see Hunt, Josh, etc on ESPN hyping up rare items in future auctions all the time? Been a vintage dealer and store owner for 17 years and deals like this don't come around too often.

Make fun if you like. That's what I was doing with the whole Mr. X thing, having fun! Amazing how so many just assume because a rare card is found and graded, that it's trimmed. What about the PSA 5 Plank in Edwards' auction? That trimmed too? Last I checkled, it was at 30K with many weeks to go.

It will find a ready home at a solid price. How come no one complained that Branca's awesome Plows and the rest were trimmed? Lots of PSA 8's Plows Christy's around, eh? C'mon guys, lighten up and have some fun. You don't have to buy any of them, but there are plenty emailing me that want to.

I hardly think that PSA needs to drum up business. If you prefer SGC, great. They are a fine company, but we all know that PSA holders sell better. May be because of the Set Registry, but they do. I never read any PSA fans saying that SGC cards are trimmed.

Have some fun in the hobby. The Mr. X deal is just that and has certainly drummed up a lot of conversation.

TJ Schwartz

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Posted By: Zach

comin from a blurry scan I dont know what to think but the top border seems to slightly go down hill from the top right corner to the top left corner...and no one thinks the psa5 plank is trimmed because it is clearly not... at least as far as I can tell

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Seriously, I don't think there's anything with having some fun. I'm neither the seller or the buyer of the Plank, so my opinion on the aethetics is beside the point. My only objection is that PSA doesn't allow me to put "He Hate Me" or "ARod is a phoney" on my labels.

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Posted By: Julie

things)--is it because the card is a bit blurry, or does Plank--not quite look like himself? Ot do my old eyes fail me?


The T206 was a PSA 2, I think--and it's also blurry (one of my first scans).

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Posted By: Glenn

I found "Mr. X" with old friend google. Apparently he's some sort of cartoonist-pornographer. Now we know.

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Posted By: jay behrens

If you read the article, only the Plank and Magee are getting the Mr X Collection label.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The whole point of provenance is to establish that it went through the hands of someone famous or expert in the field. If you don't tell who it is, the whole thing is self-defeating.

Now if it was "Racer X", you might have something...Go Speed Racer!

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Posted By: dan mckee

Amazing how so many just assume because a rare card is found and graded, that it's trimmed.



This is a ridiculous statement, no one here has mentioned that the Magie card pictured is trimmed. There are a TON of trimmed T206's in PSA holders. We do not think they are trimmed because they are rare, we think they are trimmed because they are trimmed. How about giving us a nice scan here of your Plank. It would be good advertising for you. Dan.

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Posted By: leon

I doubt the Mr.X Plank is trimmed. More often than not PSA get's it right. Of course that could mean 49% are wrong....just kiddin'. I would imagine the vast majority are fine. I do think they don't know vintage as well as SGC but we have pretty much not only beat, but buried, that horse. As for the Mr.X designation I don't think it's a great idea. Yes, marketing and hype can help sell stuff but I don't think this sets a good precedent. When I sell my collection am I going to get PSA (right?) to put "From the Leon Luckey Collection" on it? Or if Tbob sells his is he going to get the "From the Trophy Bob Collection" on those holders? I hope not. I can see it now...every darn screwball now wants his name on a stupid holder. And I think someone said "PSA holders sell better". My only question is what did the holders grade? "Blurry 8", or "warped 7", how about "scratched 6". Can you actually slab a holder? The more I am in the hobby the less I like grading.... regards

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I agree with you on most points except that Tbob will somehow incorporate the word 'FRIGGIN'(tm) into his slabs........

Maybe it was Malcolm X and it isn't really dead.......OR.....it's either Spike Lee or Denzel Washington, since they have ties to the move Malcolm X. Conspiracy theories abound.........

Trimmed or not, I'd take EITHER the Magie OR the Plank........I also need the Demmitt and O'Hara.........

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Posted By: Ray

why are they so different if they were slabbed at the same time?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm sitting here trying to think exactly why I find the Mr X designation so utterly ridiculous, and while I can't put my finger on it, I think it is funny because PSA went to the trouble to add this to the label and it in fact tells us absolutely nothing at all. It adds no cache, doesn't reveal the previous owner, doesn't even let us know if there was anything of importance we should know about this Mr X. Was his collection special, or no better or worse than any other collection in the hobby? Like Seinfeld was a "show about nothing", this is a label about nothing. Nothing whatsoever is enhanced by having that extra line of type on it. It's comical for sure, and I think PSA is just playing a joke on us.

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Posted By: dstudeba

So what happens when the next famous-guy-who-doesn't-want-to-be-known gets his collection slabbed? Is it the Mr. Y collection? Personally I thought TJ was pulling our leg when he said that it was going on the slab. Pretty stupid in my humble opinion, I would probably have PSA reslab it and remove the name if I owned it because it would be my card, not Mr. X's.

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Posted By: TJ Schwartz

First off, as previously mentioned, only the Plank and Magie have the Mr. X tag. I bet the buyer doesn't get it reslabbed. Just an opinion, but for $5, the winner could.

Secondly, PSA has done this thing before upon request, but ONLY on super rare or high end graded, very low pop report, high dollar cards. They would not place anyone's name or title on say, a PSA 6 T-206 Cobb.I'm sure they would with a PSA 10, if it existed.

Thirdly, the Mr. X designation is doing exactly what I felt it would, invoke conversation, posiitive or negative. As Wrigley once said, "There is no such thing as bad publicity as long as they spell your name right."

Card is definitely not trimmed. PSA guarantees their cards as we all know. They buy back mistakes and everyone makes them. They are not gambling with this high a dollar card. And please don't tell me that SGC doesn't make mistakes. TJS

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Posted By: jay behrens

The difference between a PSA and SGC mistake is that SGC owns up to their mistakes. PSA tries to sweep it under the rug and make it go away until they end up in court. Just my observations of the 2 compaies.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Mr. Schwartz, The fact that you don't care whether the publicity for this stunt is positive or negative says a lot about your standing in this hobby in my eyes.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I won't begrudge TJ for making money the best way he knows how, but it's kind of like naming rights for a stadium. The Yankees, who make oodles of dough, haven't changed the Stadium name to Adidas Park or Utz Potato Chip Field, though they could've scored big on that one. They understand the value in not doing so. SGC just graded the best Cracker Jack set in existence. Thankfully they knew better than to slab Uncle Joe Whomever on their holders for that set.

Finally, I have owned over 100 SGC and PSA graded T206 cards in recent years, and have held many more others. SGC is by far the most consistent grader. It's not even close. When I first starting posting on this board, I was a defender of PSA. Then I started accumulating more and more PSA graded T206 cards on ebay and grew more and more disappointed with their inconsistency. I just don't have any level of trust purchasing PSA graded T206 cards anymore. The only good thing is you can always find a buyer -- at least for now -- if you don't like what you end up with. With SGC, I never have that worry and I've never had reason to have that worry.

My only fear is that PSA has so much market share that so many investors have put so much money into that they will be unwilling to move out of PSA and into a more sensible grading company; that SGC will eventually lose the battle of the graders and we'll all be stuck with something we don't want.

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Posted By: dan mckee

PSA guarantees their cards as we all know


This is priceless! Will the person who had the fake Ruth slabbed by PSA please care to comment on this statement??? I bought a T205 shean off of ebay that was labelled Cubs but the card inside was Rustlers (no picture). I trusted the grader since there was no picture. I took this to PSA and what did they do for me??? re-slab it with the proper team. So they corrected their mistake and I was out $100. This is the 2nd bright statement that you have made. Yes SGC makes mistakes but it is how you handle those mistakes that separates the 2 companies by a mile! Please show a nice scan of the Plank and let us decide for ourselves.

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Posted By: Mike P.

PSA opened the floodgates on the pedigree thing. Anybody can pay a price to get their collections name on a slab.

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?universeid=314&artid=4315

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Posted By: T206Collector

Now it is apparent that the Mr. X thing was just some silly service that is offered to anyone.

If I ever buy one of those pedigree cards with a vanity label at the top, I'm going to have it crossed over out of there faster than you can say "ILUVSGC"...

My label would probably say, "My Other Wagner Is An SGC 70"...

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Posted By: jay behrens

We neede to get t-shirts with for the National, lol

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Scott M

After having read the following thread my vote for Mr. X's identity is Bill Maher

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I think we ought to focus on the real absurdity here: "Mr. X" doesn't tell me jacks*** about provenance. For all we know, Mr. X is someone whose cards you wouldn't not want to advertise you own...

My vote is on Michael Jackson...and who know WHAT was done with those cards

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Posted By: Wesley

TJ's idea is creating discussion, but it cannot help the value of this card. I can't imagine the new owner wanting Mr. X's name on the holder.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Its only 2 cards labeled as such. A total of $10 bucks to get them reslabbed.

Lay off the guy.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

If I were buying a slabbed PSA card, all I would look for is an insert that isn't floating around too much and to be able to tell through the plastic that it isn't trimmed. The label itself is fairly meaningless.

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Posted By: tbob

So does that mean you guys won't be bidding on my E98 Wagner on ebay which is slabbed from the "Friend of Bill Clinton Collection?" I'm hurt....

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

It depends on what the meaning of the word "bid" is

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Posted By: Darren_Duet

I agree with Barry. Initially and instinctively I felt the Mr. X label was just plain a bad idea. Now that I've let is soak, I know it is a bad idea. I think the card will sell for less in than an identical card in a PSA 4 holder without the Mr. X notation. Maybe a chance for us who don't buy holder's to get an elusive card at a great price.

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Posted By: WP

TJ,
Great collection however, the top edge on the Plank is highly unusual. As for PSA selling better than SGC your auctions will be a good indicator. I will bet that your Plank PSA 4 sells for far less than the SGC 4 that Barry Sloate sold. I think if you check recent auctions (Mastro) you will see that the SGC cards are often times outselling PSA. The fact that the integrity of the SGC product is higher is creating a huge demand for the product.

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Posted By: TJ Schwartz

My standing in the hobby? Pretty funny.

I guess many don't know me and that's fine. I created and still write the 'On Your Side' consumer protection column in Tuff Stuff since 1992. I am the Editor-At-Large and the Vintage Autograph Price Guide Editor as well. In the past 13 years, I've personally helped thousands of collectors recoup lost monies from various rip-offs and scams. I do it for FREE! Feel free to go to my web site imonyourside.com to read columns dating back 5-7 years. I never mention this when I do card business, but when my integrity is challenged, I will.

I also co-hosted the Memorabilia Hour on Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA's show for 10 years. [show is done now.] I've owned and operated Porky's BB Cards & Autographs, Inc in N. Hollywood, CA since 1988. I am a red power seller on eBay with 100% FB. Not too many 1000FB+ PS's with 100% these days.

My standing after 17 years in the hobby is just fine, thank you.

Feel free to have fun at my expense. This was supposed to be a fun little idea. You would have though I had some vulgarity or racial slur on the holder by some of the reactions I've read here. To say that a PSA 4 Plank will sell for less because it says Mr. X Collection on the label is just utterly inane. What would I care if the label on a card I desired said ANYTHING? For 5 clams, I could remove it! The CARD would be what I'm buying, but with some kind of different designation, to me, it would forever make that particular card stand out from the rest.

I know most of you prefer SGC. Go for it. I prefer PSA. Different strokes...Interesting in that all the Branca cards and the Awesome Leaf set in Mastro's recent auction are all in PSA holders. Prices seemed to be kinda good, eh? Have over 2 dozen buyers froim this site interested and the SCD full page interview with me and my ads haven't even hit yet.

BTW, Have a PSA 8 1932 US Caramel Joe Cronin on eBay right now along with many '33 Goudeys 7's and others from Mr. X. Don't worry, as they don't say Mr. X! lol !

User ID is tjschwartzsports, if interested. Will be listing 4 Hassan Triple folders, including a Christy and a Cobb in PSA 6 on Friday. TJS

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

what a cardboard resume - everyone put your opinions back in your pockets.

...will you be signing bobbleheads at the National?

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Any press is good press.

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Posted By: andy becker

this thread was started for self promotion purposes only....not to inform, educate, or discuss.
that's wrong, but leon let it go due to the size of your purchase.
tj...
how is this pertinant???
"BTW, Have a PSA 8 1932 US Caramel Joe Cronin on eBay right now along with many '33 Goudeys 7's and others from Mr. X. Don't worry, as they don't say Mr. X! lol !

User ID is tjschwartzsports, if interested. Will be listing 4 Hassan Triple folders, including a Christy and a Cobb in PSA 6 on Friday. TJS"

lol my ass. this shouldn't be a forum to advertise.
leon????????????

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Posted By: andy becker

now scott. you do make me LOL. signing bobbleheads right next to mr mint!

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Posted By: leon

The reason I let this thread go is because if it's "newsworthiness." If something is news in the hobby chances are I will let it go. No different, in my mind, than the recent PSA thread. I will not let a lot of Buy/Sell/Trade stuff happen on the regular board though....not me, you, or anyone...now if I decide to sell my whole collection, or Hal does, or JC does, etc....then that could be an interesting thread....Sorry to have to personally make those calls but that's what I have to do....Hope everyone understands.....I try to opt for not censoring stuff first.......take care

ps...btw, TJ you have used your privilege and I hope there is no more promoting in the main body of the forum....there is a B/S/T area for that...

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Posted By: andy becker

thanks leon. board is doing great, thanks a bunch.

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Posted By: dan mckee

WOW! that is some resume! I am impressed. Who is this guy again???? If you have 100% feedback as a seller, that means you do not leave negatives for non-paying bidders. That is where most sellers get their negatives, in retaliation.

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Posted By: jackgoodman

A quick check with toolhaus shows he has left 1977 feedbacks, but not a single negative or neutral. How does he get only the good buyers/sellers?