AH Blues

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't see hot and instant anger as much as the amazement that you can't comprehend a simple matter more cogently. You are griping about a rule that is plainly stated and questioning it's validity? If you don't like the rules don't bid. If it is clearly stated it is in fact correct. AH's make their rules you don't. Not sure why you are so obstinate about an easy issue. You can gripe all you want to, the rules won't change. And yes, for their respective auctions, they are "right."

Who says the rules won't change? Maybe you hope they won't but that's not the kind of forward thinking that's made this country great. Just because it's the way it is doesn't mean it's the best way. Everything evolves except auction houses I guess. Those haven't changed since ancient Rome I hear. But I suspect they have a date with destiny. The next generation of collectors won't be as eager to fork over money for nothing as this older generation is.

And for the record...as it's been skewed here...My argument all along is that the buyer should'n't have to foot the bill for a service being provided to the seller. Not that the auction houses are wrong for charging fees.

PS...Save the suppressed bidding argument. That's only a piece...not the whole.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Who says the rules won't change? Maybe you hope they won't but that's not the kind of forward thinking that's made this country great. Just because it's the way it is doesn't mean it's the best way. Everything evolves except auction houses I guess. Those haven't changed since ancient Rome I hear. But I suspect they have a date with destiny. The next generation of collectors won't be as eager to fork over money for nothing as this older generation is.

And for the record...as it's been skewed here...My argument all along is that the buyer should'n't have to foot the bill for a service being provided to the seller. Not that the auction houses are wrong for charging fees.

PS...Save the suppressed bidding argument. That's only a piece...not the whole.

If you believe a card is worth $1,000 and are willing to pay $1,000, how is the buyer "footing the bill" when the buyer is still only willing to spend the same amount?

The only way that argument makes sense is if the buyer is completely oblivious of the 20 percent until after the auction is over. Anyone other than a total newbie realizes there is a 20 percent fee and adjusts their bid accordingly so that it will not surpass the maximum amount they are willing to spend.

[Orioles1954]

Although I gave up active collecting 5-10 years ago, when I did consign with an auction house (always with 15-20% buyer's premium) I ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS got more with the AH than ebay. There are many well funded collectors who just refuse to go the ebay route.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Although I gave up active collecting 5-10 years ago, when I did consign with an auction house (always with 15-20% buyer's premium) I ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS got more with the AH than ebay. There are many well funded collectors who just refuse to go the ebay route.

Check some PWCC prices and get back to us.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Check some PWCC prices and get back to us.

Just personal experience. And PWCC as a whole is another story for another day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Just personal experience. And PWCC as a whole is another story for another day.

Whatever the story was years ago I think for many cards that sell frequently in both venues ebay prices are quite competitive. And if people are paying more to AHs it's not because they are hoodwinked by the BPs it's because for whatever reason they prefer the venue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

If you believe a card is worth $1,000 and are willing to pay $1,000, how is the buyer "footing the bill" when the buyer is still only willing to spend the same amount?

The only way that argument makes sense is if the buyer is completely oblivious of the 20 percent until after the auction is over. Anyone other than a total newbie realizes there is a 20 percent fee and adjusts their bid accordingly so that it will not surpass the maximum amount they are willing to spend.

Why bother lol. DNFTT.

[Fballguy]

You're example applies to card collectors. And I can see how it works for them because they know, if they don't get this one...they'll get another shot at it in a month or two. So you can wait to get it at your price. You also have a wealth of previous sales to help you determine what your max price is.

I collect pennants. What I'm looking for comes around once every 10 years if I'm lucky. It's hard to place a price on something that comes along only once every 10 years...so I can't go in saying this pennant is worth $1000, not one penny more...unless I'm also willing to say "Ok...I'm never going to own it because it's probably not coming around again."

So your logic doesn't apply to everyone...Collector's of things more rare than a $1000 card don't have that luxury....and even if they did, it doesn't explain why the buyer should pay for the service provided to the seller.

Originally Posted by Bored5000

If you believe a card is worth $1,000 and are willing to pay $1,000, how is the buyer "footing the bill" when the buyer is still only willing to spend the same amount?

The only way that argument makes sense is if the buyer is completely oblivious of the 20 percent until after the auction is over. Anyone other than a total newbie realizes there is a 20 percent fee and adjusts their bid accordingly so that it will not surpass the maximum amount they are willing to spend.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is a complete non sequitur. The fact that you don't have reliable price information for pennants has nothing whatsoever to do with the buyer's premium issue. In the end you are bidding what you decide to bid, and it makes no difference how the auction calculates its fee. You aren't "footing the bill." You are bidding what you decide to bid. The consignor is footing the bill because he is only getting a percentage of the sum you pay the AH and the AH is keeping a share. If you pay 120, the consignor gets 100. How on earth are YOU footing that bill? Good luck in your search.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is a complete non sequitur. The fact that you don't have reliable price information for pennants has nothing whatsoever to do with the buyer's premium issue. In the end you are bidding what you decide to bid, and it makes no difference how the auction calculates its fee. You aren't "footing the bill." You are bidding what you decide to bid. The consignor is footing the bill because he is only getting a percentage of the sum you pay the AH and the AH is keeping a share. If you pay 120, the consignor gets 100. How on earth are YOU footing that bill? Good luck in your search.

The consignor is getting 100% of the bid...and I'm paying 20% for his right to do so.

Do you want me to send you a dictionary so you can look up the word bid?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Let's see if one other person here agrees with you, Rob, shall we? Not that that would matter since you're the smartest guy on the board, obviously.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

When I choose to bid on a card, pennant, whatever that any given auction house has up for bids, I make the choice to bid. It is up to me to read the rules---including what fees I may or may not have to pay if I win. If I object to a buyer's premium, I don't place any bids. If I choose to participate, I have a certain amount I am willing to spend. I don't care what percentage is going to a consignor, the auction house, or whomever...I am hoping that my amount is enough to win the card, pennant, or whatever.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's see if one other person here agrees with you, Rob, shall we? Not that that would matter since you're the smartest guy on the board, obviously.

Tell you what...If one person here can direct me to an auction house that touts their "20% lower than market value winning bids", I'll never speak of the buyer's premium again.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The consignor is getting 100% of the bid...and I'm paying 20% for his right to do so.

Do you want me to send you a dictionary so you can look up the word bid?

Rob, what you said may be technically correct, however, when I bid in an auction, I consider my bids to include whatever BP, if any, applies; I assume most collectors would agree with me.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Rob, what you said may be technically correct, however, when I bid in an auction, I consider my bids to include whatever BP, if any, applies; I assume most collectors would agree with me.

I agree with what you say...I'm sure many do that. But it's because you've been conditioned to do so. That says nothing about why it should be that way.

[FourStrikes]

the pain of the mind is much worse than the pain of the body...

just sayin'.