Completing the t218 Master Set Checklist - Cash Reward for proof of missing cards

[G1911]

I am still offering a cash reward gift (I’ll PayPal you through F&F, PM me your PayPal email) for reasonable photographic evidence that any of the following cards exist (to the first person to provide said reasonable proof for any specific card - if the card is up live on eBay I've seen it).


Cards that do not exist - Series 1 - $25 Reward
NA Robert Cloughan (Error), Hassan, Factory 30
NA Robert Cloughan (Error), Hassan, Factory 649
NA S.P. Gillis (Variation), Hassan, Factory 30
NA S.P. Gillis (Variation), Hassan, Factory 649
NA H.J. Handy, Hassan, Factory 30
NA H.J. Handy, Hassan, Factory 649
NA Jack Johnson (Green), Mecca, Factory 30
NA C.D. Trudenbach (Error), Hassan, Factory 30
NA C.D. Trudenbach (Error), Hassan, Factory 649

Cards that do not exist - Series 2 - $25 Reward
NA Joe Jeanette (One N), Hassan, Series 2, Factory 30
NA Joe Jeanette (One N), Hassan, Series 2, Factory 649
NA Joe Jeanette (One N), Mecca, Series 2, Factory 30
NA Joe Jeanette (One N), Mecca, Series 2, Factory 649
NA Joe Jeanette (One N), Tolstoi
NA Joe Jeannette (Two N’s), Hassan, Factory 30
NA Jack Johnson (Blue), Hassan, Factory 30
NA Jack Johnson (Green), Tolstoi


Cards that have not yet surfaced - Series 3 - $15 Reward:
NA “Johnny” Hayes, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 30
NA “Johnny” Hayes, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 649
NA Abel Kiviat, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 30
NA Gusta Ljungstrom, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 30
NA Gusta Ljungstrom, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 649
NA James Rector, Mecca “Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters,” Factory 30

[scooter729]

I just checked through about 40 examples of those cards with no new ones to add to your list.

Curious how you feel about C52 being part of the T218 master set. I know it's technically a different set, but I've always thought of it as something I would want for a T218 master. (Admittedly, I am not chasing a T218 master, but have a regular T218 set along with a C52 set.) The fronts are the same (albeit with a smaller checklist for the C52s), and it's really similar to just being a different ad on the back.

[DaveW]

Scott,
I’ve always thought that the C52 cards are no different than the Tolstoi cards - same fronts and text as the T218 cards but with a different brand (or no brand for the C52s). I think they are all really just a part of the T218 group. A better question is how do we know they were put out by the Imperial Tobacco company? Do you have any info on that? There’s nothing on the card to indicate that. I think that they were probably printed by American Lithograph as a generic set and sold to smaller brands (maybe just in Canada?). And why are there just 9 of the Series 2 cards but 50 each of Series 1 and 3?
- Dave

Greg,
Those are the same 13 cards that I’ve never seen. I would put all the Johnson and Handy cards in the not likely to exist category and the Series 3 track guys in the maybe exist category (but really rare). Hopefully, somebody will cash in on your offer.
- Dave

[Marslife]

Hey There!

Checked my 310 cards, no reward money due to me :-(

good news for the Master Set :-)

TTYL!

Cliff

[G1911]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I just checked through about 40 examples of those cards with no new ones to add to your list.

Curious how you feel about C52 being part of the T218 master set. I know it's technically a different set, but I've always thought of it as something I would want for a T218 master. (Admittedly, I am not chasing a T218 master, but have a regular T218 set along with a C52 set.) The fronts are the same (albeit with a smaller checklist for the C52s), and it's really similar to just being a different ad on the back.

I've flip-flopped on this issue several times, and have struggled to identify much of any evidence about the particulars of this set beyond the checklist. I'm collecting a C52 run along with my T218 set, though I'm only at ~35 cards or so.


First, like Dave, I question whether this was even a Canadian issue. It seems to me the primary evidence it is Canadian is that A) it has card numbers (which Imperial Tobacco often did), and B) that there is no factory number on the back (as required by American law, but in no other nation), which are both very circumstantial and could lead to many other conclusions too. I know of some sourced from Canada, but some of mine have come from original collections in the American south too, mixed with Mecca backs. I'm not aware of any real evidence that the set is indeed Canadian, though it very well may be true. I don't think the evidence is enough to assume Burdick's designation as a Canadian set is true.


To me, the key points for considering it part of T218 is that it was clearly printed by American Lithographic around the time of the T218 set (most 'reprint' tobacco sets like T223, T215 etc. have much lower quality images, as the original printing stones/plates wore down), sharing the same artwork. The key evidence against is that the checklist of the first series of C52 does not align with T218.


I think it is safe to say C52 series 1 was not printed concurrently with T218. A) It is missing Handy, who was released with T218-1 during its initial Mecca run and then pulled, and B) card #1 is Jack Johnson (Green), who was not printed in the initial run of T218-1 but added to the issue part way through (though I think a preponderance of the evidence suggests this actually has nothing to do with Handy being pulled, as is often said, as, for starters, both cards are very common with a Mecca 649 back). C) The 9 T218-2 cards that appear with duplicate numbers in the first series of C52.


To me, with the evidence available, it is a separate set, but closely related cousin, like T219. T219 was printed in the same period as T218, but not at the same time, and thus, is a cousin set instead of a back variation. I think there is a separation between the 3 sets based on A) the series composition being different and B) that they were printed at different times. More evidence about the actual time of printing and how/where/why the C52 backs were issued could easily change this conclusion, in my personal opinion.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by DaveW

Greg,
Those are the same 13 cards that I’ve never seen. I would put all the Johnson and Handy cards in the not likely to exist category and the Series 3 track guys in the maybe exist category (but really rare). Hopefully, somebody will cash in on your offer.
- Dave

I've got no PM or private reports yet, but if they do exist, hoping this will draw out the proof!


I'm pretty confident on the missing green Johnsons, 100% on the Handy's I've been looking for for years. I suspect the Fact. 30 series 3 track guys that are known with a 649 back may be out there, as some of the cards with this caption are fairly common (like Sellen) and others are very scarce (like Holmer).


I did not include it, but the other theoretical card is the Cloughan error, with a Mecca 30 back. I think this is the one most likely to surface, but if it does exist, almost certainly is the rarest single card in the set.

[scooter729]

For what it's worth, the majority of my cards from my C52 set (about 70 or 75 of the cards) were purchased about 10 years ago from a Canadian seller who found the whole group in an attic. So that always helped me believe this was indeed a Canadian set.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by scooter729

For what it's worth, the majority of my cards from my C52 set (about 70 or 75 of the cards) were purchased about 10 years ago from a Canadian seller who found the whole group in an attic. So that always helped me believe this was indeed a Canadian set.

I have one batch that came from Virginia, from a descendant of an original child collector of the 1910 period. Another batch came came with backstamps of the name of the presumed early collector, mixed C52 and Mecca cards. 3 more came from New York, and some from Canadian sellers but I'm not sure that's where the cards actually originated and they didn't wander around in the last hundred years. 70 C52's at once is one heck of a buy!

[G1911]

Updating to add a small price for a "Jeanette" spelling error that breaks the pattern I have seen. As far as I have observed thus far, the error is only on all H30 no series backs, and all H30 no series backs have the error.

H30 error on left, corrected card on right. Kind of hope this pattern doesn't break, as a master set of 630 cards only fits so well into 9 pocket pages!

[Tao_Moko]

I reviewed my stack of over 300 and cannot confirm any new variations. That is of over 300 Boxers.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

I reviewed my stack of over 300 and cannot confirm any new variations. That is of over 300 Boxers.

Thank you for checking!

[EGreenwood]

Hello,

I check my set, and no wanted variations to report.

Erik

[G1911]

Originally Posted by EGreenwood

Hello,

I check my set, and no wanted variations to report.

Erik

Thank you Erik!

Heard from a few others offline as well, so far the Jeanette/Jeannette pattern is holding. Pretty sure the master remains 630, with a F30 Cloughan the most likely card to have been printed but still unknown.

[G1911]

I will triple the reward for Jeannette/Jeanette in my OP (a scan, photograph or similar reasonable evidence of its reality); the pattern is still holding true and I'm 99% sure this is it. Like the T205 Mathewson Cycle back variation, it doesn't add a new card to the checklist but is simply that all copies of a particular back have a second difference, affecting a master set not at all.

Going from $5 to $15.

[G1911]

Another one surfaced, this Weston here, that a few of us noticed. I suspect Rector and Kiviat eventually might. I think we have 3 distinct sheets including track cards in series 3. A couple of the long caption M30's in series 3 are extremely rare or unique. Master set is at 633 confirmed cards.

Bounties updated. Of course, I am paying far, far above market value for a copy of them too.

[DaveW]

Wow! I didn’t think the Weston card would ever show up. I guess there is hope now for the Kiviat and Rector cards. I wonder why these are so rare. Also, did you happen to notice that the T219 Red Cross back Jeannette card that recently sold also has the 1 “n” error spelling on the back like the T218? The HLC ones also have this error. I wonder if that’s just a coincidence or if it tells us something about when these were printed with respect to each other.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by DaveW

Wow! I didn’t think the Weston card would ever show up. I guess there is hope now for the Kiviat and Rector cards. I wonder why these are so rare. Also, did you happen to notice that the T219 Red Cross back Jeannette card that recently sold also has the 1 “n” error spelling on the back like the T218? The HLC ones also have this error. I wonder if that’s just a coincidence or if it tells us something about when these were printed with respect to each other.

I was feeling 90% confident about my 632 card checklist before this, now I feel like only 30% confident it's 633. With some of these long caption M30's being so incredibly rare or uniquely known, it's going to be impossible to cross off Kiviat and Rector as probabilities at this point.

I believe McEntee also has 1-2 copies known (Do you have 1? I believe I have only seen the copy I own). As I recall, you and I only confirmed Johansson in 2021. Sweeney is also very very tough, but I think there are 3-4 confirmed examples now. I am confident Ljungstrom and Hayes do not exist, as the 649 long caption backs are not that tough with any subject and they have never surfaced. I think the scarcity probably correlates to sheet layout and design. We have considerable deductive evidence that series weren't actually released all at once or done at once, and had 'waves' in some sets. T220 was 2 sheets, T218 I think was 2-3 sheets depending on series with some weird layouts (in series 1, some sheets had rows upside down to each other for some reason, and I strongly suspect there were sheets containing only the superprinted Johnson cards for part of production). I think the 3 levels of scarcity here (somewhat tough, very rare, non-existent) for the M30 long captions backs reflect 3 sheets and the times those sheets first entered production.


On the Jeanette, I compiled all my notes a few months ago into a book-type compilation and went over all the puzzle pieces I have in my documents again to try and resolve this. I still couldn't make full sense of this. Hassan 30, no series notation production of series 2 is strongly suggested by the evidence to be the first back produced for series 2. The packing dates for this series in the ledger I find to be rather dubious, but it was certainly a mid 1910 production. T219 cannot possibly have been done before ~March of 1911, 7+ months long after the error was corrected. Perhaps when modifying the cards for T219 they just used the originally filed materials from the previous year? It is strange, but it's all that I can see fitting into the evidence pieces. Perhaps you will figure it better than I have been able to . All 4 backs of the T219 Jeanette only exist with the single 'n' spelling, at least, as far as I have seen. I've been looking at each one I come across to try and find a variation and haven't yet.

[G1911]

And here is the subset, with the categories, based on what I have seen and all those who have been kind enough to let me poke through their holdings and record data. My sample is never complete and may not be representative, as it is biased to the holdings of a subset of collectors with a similar interest. Sweeney is the one I am least positive on grouping this way, he is more common than the other 3 in the tough tier with a few examples having surfaced. I'd be interested in how Dave, George, Cliff and our other learned gentlemen would group them and if our data aligns together.

These 2 groupings + the 2 definite no prints represent 3 sheets at minimum for series 3, which I think is more than series 2. The ATC ledger notes that indicate printing by sport are demonstrably wrong from miscuts.

My less than scientific conclusion from the datasets available to me suggest that this subset and one of the Johnson Green's are actually the hardest cards in the set and the true hardest obstacle to a master, not the Tolstoi's which are a pain because there are 50 of them but there are several examples or more of each card.