Probstein video about trimmed cards

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

While I appreciate the thought, as it is something that obviously concerns me too, the idea that the card doctors are worthy of defense and those who are trying to expose them are described as hobby clowns is somewhat interesting.

+100

Always the same people defending as well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

+100

Always the same people defending as well.

Not really, it depends on WHO is being called out by who defends them.

[Steve D]

I look at it this as more of a discussion about "eye appeal", than of trimming.

There are plenty of cards that are untrimmed, but have poor eye appeal for the grade; I stay away from those, as even if you pay a low price, you still have a card you think is ugly.

On the other hand, there are cards that have outstanding eye appeal for the grade, and some of them may be trimmed. The bottom line for me, is the eye appeal.....if the eye appeal is good to me, it doesn't really matter if it might be trimmed; I know I like the card, but I do not know for certain that it is trimmed.

Basically, for me, if the eye appeal outweighs the possibility of trimming, then I would probably enjoy having the card.

Steve

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I look at it this as more of a discussion about "eye appeal", than of trimming.

There are plenty of cards that are untrimmed, but have poor eye appeal for the grade; I stay away from those, as even if you pay a low price, you still have a card you think is ugly.

On the other hand, there are cards that have outstanding eye appeal for the grade, and some of them may be trimmed. The bottom line for me, is the eye appeal.....if the eye appeal is good to me, it doesn't really matter if it might be trimmed; I know I like the card, but I do not know for certain that it is trimmed.

Basically, for me, if the eye appeal outweighs the possibility of trimming, then I would probably enjoy having the card.

Steve

Well, the eye appeal thing makes sense, but the trimming part most are referencing has to do with cards that are receiving high numerical grades which translates to $$$$ (many cases it's not petty cash).

There's a lot in play. Start with "ethics: Those that trim for the purpose of deception; grading companies that turn a blind eye; sellers that don't give a crap; investors that only care about making a buck and don't care about the hobby impacts.

Proceed to FRAUD. The end result is a community of hobbyist/collectors/investors that all have different views on it. Go back to ethics and start there.

[molenick]

I am trying to complete a high grade Diamond Stars set. I do my best to avoid cards that have been "outed" on the Blowout board or that look trimmed to my eye, and I only buy from reputable auction houses. But at this point, it is possible probable that I have some trimmed cards. I don't have the heart to research every one and it makes me wary of buying any more cards in higher condition.

After Blowout started posting before/after photos of trimmed cards, I was contacted by PWCC and they offered to buy back the cards they sold me that were listed (I got an email from them about each card). I can't remember, but this was maybe two or three Leafs in total. I also found an E card that was listed and they bought that back as well. I am guessing this was in 2019 or 2020. I have not had this happen with other sellers. Of course, PWCC was the one selling the trimmed cards in the first place, so that doesn't absolve them. But at least they bought back the cards they sold me that had been publicly identified as trimmed or altered.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by molenick

I am trying to complete a high grade Diamond Stars set. I do my best to avoid cards that have been "outed" on the Blowout board or that look trimmed to my eye, and I only buy from reputable auction houses. But at this point, it is possible probable that I have some trimmed cards. I don't have the heart to research every one and it makes me wary of buying any more cards in higher condition.

After Blowout started posting before/after photos of trimmed cards, I was contacted by PWCC and they offered to buy back the cards they sold me that were listed (I got an email from them about each card). I can't remember, but this was maybe two or three Leafs in total. I also found an E card that was listed and they bought that back as well. I am guessing this was in 2019 or 2020. I have not had this happen with other sellers. Of course, PWCC was the one selling the trimmed cards in the first place, so that doesn't absolve them. But at least they bought back the cards they sold me that had been publicly identified as trimmed or altered.

Good thing the "Hobby Clowns" (according to the Snowman here) brought needed awareness to this fraud, or you never would have been refunded.

Aside from those "Hobby Clowns", the only other reason you got refunded was that another Board Member here (who legally represented PWCC while the FBI was investigating them) advised Brent to offer full refunds on all the altered cards that were exposed. He probably kept Brent out of jail in doing so.

The "Hobby Clowns" put in countless hours (with no pay and no benefit to themselves) to expose the blatant fraud, and still probably caught less than 5% of the doctored cards out there. The hundreds of hours and level of detail they had to dig into was overwhelming. So to see them demeaned in a thread like this is misguided and imbecilic.

[G1911]

Nobody should be surprised to see this from the guy who spends most of his posts shilling for known fraudsters or trying to justify why it’s okay to do when even he can’t think of a defense.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Good thing the "Hobby Clowns" (according to the Snowman here) brought needed awareness to this fraud, or you never would have been refunded.

Aside from those "Hobby Clowns", the only other reason you got refunded was that another Board Member here (who legally represented PWCC while the FBI was investigating them) advised Brent to offer full refunds on all the altered cards that were exposed. He probably kept Brent out of jail in doing so.

The "Hobby Clowns" put in countless hours (with no pay and no benefit to themselves) to expose the blatant fraud, and still probably caught less than 5% of the doctored cards out there. The hundreds of hours and level of detail they had to dig into was overwhelming. So to see them demeaned in a thread like this is misguided and imbecilic.

Yes, I really should thank the Blowout crowd and the lawyer who advised PWCC to offer refunds.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Good thing the "Hobby Clowns" (according to the Snowman here) brought needed awareness to this fraud, or you never would have been refunded.

Aside from those "Hobby Clowns", the only other reason you got refunded was that another Board Member here (who legally represented PWCC while the FBI was investigating them) advised Brent to offer full refunds on all the altered cards that were exposed. He probably kept Brent out of jail in doing so.

The "Hobby Clowns" put in countless hours (with no pay and no benefit to themselves) to expose the blatant fraud, and still probably caught less than 5% of the doctored cards out there. The hundreds of hours and level of detail they had to dig into was overwhelming. So to see them demeaned in a thread like this is misguided and imbecilic.

Again, I was not referring to BODA when I said "hobby clowns".

Brent likely could have represented himself and nothing would have happened to him. An auction house selling graded cards that trimmers consigned is very clearly not a crime. Even if they knew about it.

In fact, I'll take that a step further. I believe Brent could have sat on the witness stand and openly admitted to trimming cards himself, getting them regraded, putting a "PWCC-S" eye appeal sticker on it, and reselling it on his platform for massive profits and he still wouldn't have been convicted of committing a crime.

"Less than 5%" lol. Yes, 0.00001 is less than 5. Your math checks out