A little game for new collectors: Find the auction warning signs!

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Hey everybody,
Lets' play a little game. Let's see if we can find at least 3 reasons why a collector of vintage material should NOT take the risk and bid on this auction. This can be a fun test for collectors on the board who are new to bidding on vintage material.

Here's a hint on one: David Rudd mentions this warning sign on the board practically every week.

The link is below, Have fun!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2751330631&category=31719

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Posted By: warshawlaw

outside of the private auction stuff, it looks legit to me. Is the card counterfeit (I don't like hence know nothing of strip cards)? I do see that the seller has the decade wrong (I think), but any knowledgeable buyer would look in the Standard Catalogue to pin that down readily. Seller is willing to take Paypal, so he/she obviously doesn't mind having a potential account freezing problem if the card is problematic. I'm guessing the price is ridiculous, but there's no law against that. What did I miss??

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Posted By: runscott

...private feedback, no returns, stored in safe since WWI.

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Posted By: leon

Don't dismiss ALL auctions because of some warning signs. Remember the Kalamazoo Bats team card with 700 hits and NO takers....It came back graded a very nice SGC 30. As far as this card goes I don't see a problem with it. There are obvious signs of "scammery" though. I am not really a "w" card collector, and without knowing this particular issue that well I am not sure, but in the scan it looks ok? What am I missing besides, as Adam pointed out, a fairly high price? regards all

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Let me clarify that I'm not necessarily saying that this seller is a scammer, but he or she does seem a little misinformed about what it is they're selling, which in some instances can be just as bad, especially if a lot of money's involved. My issues with this auction are:

1. Private auction

2. All sales final

3. 1000.00?

4. Seller is not wholly informed about what they are selling (wrong date, price)and that's a problem that can be bad for either a seller, a bidder or both.

5. No back scan, 1000.00 dollars and a Ruth card which is bound to attract bidders and no back scan?


These are not really shady issues, I apologize if it seemed that I was implying that, it's just that when your dealing with a card priced at 1000 dollars these things can make a bidder a little uneasy. Not all scammers have bad feedback or do private auctions either. Some of Dr. Bond's "almost real" auctions are not always private and eagle8016's feedback wasn't really too bad until her scam really started rolling. You can't be too careful these days on ebay and some of these small issues can be a make or break an auction for me when dealing with vintage cards, especially pricey stuff. I don't want to take too many chances and get burned if I can prevent it. But that's just me, everyone's got there own set of rules for what works best for them I guess. Thanks for the responses.

--Adam

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Posted By: brian p.

From this scan, the card appears genuine, but the auction certainly has so many icky qualities that one might consider wearing latex gloves when approaching it. Besides the grossly out of line $1000 price, and the fact that it has been stored in a protective case in a bank vault since WW1, and it being a private auction to protect the bidder's investment, my favorite line is "Bid with confidence, all sales final."

Brian

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Posted By: Rob

Baseball cards had zero value until what, the 1970's, when they became collector's items. Why would anybody put them in a vault or, for that matter, a protective case before then?

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Posted By: Hankron

For legitimate sellers, I strongly beleive that having a clearly stated and reasonable guarantee of authenticity and return policy is to their benefit and is condusive to long term sales success. There are a lot of smart buyers who specifically look for the guarantee, not just to see what is the guarantee but to see what type of seller they are dealing with. A seller, who obviously is knowledgeable about the material, and says "I guarantee this is authentic, and if it isn't you can return it for refund" is someone who stands behind the product and someone you want to buy from.

You often will find that the dealers the most confident about the authenticity and quality of the product have the most liberal return policies, because they they know the items won't be returned for being a fake. You will often find that those who are not so confident have the most Draconian return policies.

I beleive that all legitimate eBay sellers should detail their guarantee and return policy in each auction, even if it is only a sentence or two. An added benifit is that, in case there is a dispute with an unreasonable bidder who's delayed too long or wants unreasonable compensation, the terms or return and refund were clearly detailed in the auction before the person bid.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I don't see errors as to the item's date of issuance as being a necessary indicator of a fraudulent auction.

First, misdating undated issues is not unusual. How many T206 card dates have you seen? 1909, 1910, 1911, 1909-1911, etc., etc. If you run each date in the ebay search engine, you are almost certain to pull up new and different T206 listings.

Second, I think we've all bought cards that were harmlessly misdescribed, priced as commons when they were rare variations,etc. Anyone for a Piedmont factory 42 card priced as a regular Piedmont common?? I rarely see anyone popping up and correcting sellers when they get the info wrong in the public's favor (now don't all of you snipe at me for saying this; I know each of us has done a good deed or two from time to time to protect the clueless in such situations, but in general that is the exception to the rule).

Also, I don't think it merits bringing a novice seller on ebay to task for not knowing some facts about their cards when major auction houses often sell cards that are misdescribed and P.robably S.incere A.nalysts who grade cards miss fakes and altered cards too from time to time.

Finally, in no way is a ridiculously hefty price tag an indicator of a fraudulent auction. If anything, it is an indicator of an uninformed auctioneer who has stupidly spent good coin on an inflated listing fee that isn't going to go anywhere.

I guess what I'm meandering around here is that I don't always have a problem with a card seller screwing up a technical description in an obvious way or putting an item out there for a price he happens to like, so long as the issue is unrelated to condition or authenticity, which I don't see as being an issue here. Promisedtreasures comes to mind in this regard; she certainly could have done better describing some of the T229's she sold, but the errors were obviously errors of a novice, not malicious efforts to mislead.

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Posted By: DrNguyenVanFalk

1. Description in ALL CAPS - I hate this, and think it is very unprofessional.

2. If you check his feedback, he responded in an abusive manner to one of his negatives or neutrals, calling the person a "moron" - I never do business with people who do this.

3. As mentioned, private auction, unbelievable story, etc. . . . too many warning signs for me. Even if the card is legit, I would expect that the buying process would be unpleasant and/or difficult.

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Posted By: Hankron

Adam, your points are legitimate. Many eBay sellers buy out the remains of a garage sale and shouldn't be expected to know the history and meaning of everything plastic salt shaker and 2002 Disneyland token.

However, the minimum bid on this item is $1,000. I don't know about everyone else on this board, but I don't have a stack of $1,000 bills on my desk ready to fly out the door at a moment's whim. The seller has to have some pretty strong reasons in order to convince me to write them a check like that.

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Posted By: julie

Just from the information seller gives, it'd be hard to keep a 1920 card in a safe since WW1, unless Johnny Came Marching Home 2 years later than I thought.

I do collect strips, and that's a pretty nice one. The $1000 is out of the question, of course, and--as someone has already pointed out--indicates seller got taken.

Seller will not get opening bid, because it's too high--and that's the bottom line.

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Posted By: the illini

This auction leads me to another question i have about some ebay auctions. Why would you list the opening bid with the same price as your BIN? If someone is willing to bid $1000, why wouldnt they just buy it for that price?

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

If the timing in description was right , Ruth would be in a Boston uniform and then I might bite.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

2 reasons:

1. Deter the bottom feeders who kill the BIN with a lowball bid.

2. See if the ability to close the deal will convince a buyer to pull the trigger. My thinking is that sometimes a buyer who is not willing to bid the minimum and wait a week might give into an impulse and buy a card if he/she can close it right there. I know I've done that a few times.

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Posted By: TBob

Any auctions which include the words "grandfather" "antique desk" "private user id" and "selling it as a reprint."

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Posted By: runscott

...and we should forgive them for that since they are just trying to make a buck.

No, that would be deception, and it's wrong in my book.