Can't fight City Hall- eBay protecting their large sellers (probstein content)

[bbeck]

[QUOTE=Leon;1367663]No it's not unreasonable. We in the auction house business do monitor our auctions. No, we aren't perfect but we will respond to any situation that doesn't look to be on the up and up. And I know for a fact several other auction houses do it too as I have gotten calls from them concerning these kinds of issues.

And I am with you David, because someone submits a card to a company and doesn't shill it doesn't mean it doesn't happen (and happen often) with their other consignors. I personally don't have proof of the Probstein issues other than what has been pointed out on this board. And they are worrisome.

In Probstein's defense, I asked him about this one time and he sent me a list of at least a hundred (I think it was a few hundred) bidders he had blocked on ebay, due to these type issues. Is he doing enough, I don't know?[/QUOTE

I find it hard to believe his block bidder list is solely predicated on possible shill bidders, more likely on bidders who have called him out on specific issues they have had with him or accused him of wrong doings. He doesn't want those low feedback dings to kill his ebay discounts.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by bbeck

He doesn't want those low feedback dings to kill his ebay discounts.

As with several of the other large sellers on ebay (PWCC 4SC/NESC, battersbox) who are a part of the Emerging Verticals program, each of their additional ebay discounts (the form of discount varies from seller to seller)are pre negotiated and locked in. These sellers have an Emerging Verticals Account Manager,who is over the sports card category, to personally assist with concerns that arise. The goal of this program is to drive sales for ebay (category by category) by increasing the sales of the largest sellers within each category. A top down approach to driving sales.

This is the explanation that I received from an ebay EV AM of a different ebay category.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

As with several of the other large sellers on ebay (PWCC 4SC/NESC, battersbox) who are a part of the Emerging Verticals program, each of their additional ebay discounts (the form of discount varies from seller to seller)are pre negotiated and locked in. These sellers have an Emerging Verticals Account Manager,who is over the sports card category, to personally assist with concerns that arise. The goal of this program is to drive sales for ebay (category by category) by increasing the sales of the largest sellers within each category. A top down approach to driving sales.

This is the explanation that I received from an ebay EV AM of a different ebay category.

Take-home message is that if you are not part of the 'Emerging Verticals' program, you are part of the 'Bent Over Vertically' program.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by runscott

take-home message is that if you are not part of the 'emerging verticals' program, you are part of the 'bent over vertically' program.

lol!

[stlcardsfan]

eBay is a publicly traded entity that needs to satisfy analysts quarterly earnings estimates. That is where all of this originates.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Take-home message is that if you are not part of the 'Emerging Verticals' program, you are part of the 'Bent Over Vertically' program.

Excellent post . Accurate and funny.

I stay away from Probstein and the others mention. I know they are shilled.

The whole process lends itself to it.

The ball card world has a lot of unscrupulous people in it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Excellent post . Accurate and funny.

I stay away from Probstein and the others mention. I know they are shilled.

The whole process lends itself to it.

The ball card world has a lot of unscrupulous people in it.

Some are...some aren't. When I see a common PSA 3 sell for just as much as the same card in a PSA 6, then yes, I think something funny is going on with the PSA 3. There is nothing that I can add that hasn't been rehashed time and time again.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hi Guys, I normally post on the football board, hope you don't mind me jumping in... Here are 2 scenarios:

Case 1: Card has market value ~100, high bidder at 80 with hidden reserve at 100.01

The card would have sold for 80 except the owner of the cards jumps in with a schill bid of 99.99

This is basically the OP's case - cheated out of 20 bucks in my scenario. The amount doesn't matter - it's illegal, immoral, etc. I get it.

Case 2: Same as Case 1, except schill bidder gets aggressive and bids 104.99. Now he wins!

What happens next? Does he say: "Um, excuse me Mr. Consigner, I accidentally won my own item, can you please auction it again?" How awkward would that be? And even if the consigner had no ethics, how would the consigner know it isn't a sting?

Does the schiller just quietly buy his own item? Let's do the math. Say he paid 95 originally, 104.99 + 3.50 shipping, so he's up to 203.49. But he gets a consignment check for 104.99*.88 = 92.39. So he's out 111.10 on the card now. If he sends it in again and gets say 110 on the second attempt - he still loses. Plus he paid to ship it in twice which I didn't even count. Is it worth it? Might it not be more rational to let the card sell on its own (legally) rather than play this schilling game?

If anyone out there isn't already burnt out on this toplic, thanks for your thoughts.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Hi Guys, I normally post on the football board, hope you don't mind me jumping in... Here are 2 scenarios:

Case 1: Card has market value ~100, high bidder at 80 with hidden reserve at 100.01

The card would have sold for 80 except the owner of the cards jumps in with a schill bid of 99.99

This is basically the OP's case - cheated out of 20 bucks in my scenario. The amount doesn't matter - it's illegal, immoral, etc. I get it.

Case 2: Same as Case 1, except schill bidder gets aggressive and bids 104.99. Now he wins!

What happens next? Does he say: "Um, excuse me Mr. Consigner, I accidentally won my own item, can you please auction it again?" How awkward would that be? And even if the consigner had no ethics, how would the consigner know it isn't a sting?

Does the schiller just quietly buy his own item? Let's do the math. Say he paid 95 originally, 104.99 + 3.50 shipping, so he's up to 203.49. But he gets a consignment check for 104.99*.88 = 92.39. So he's out 111.10 on the card now. If he sends it in again and gets say 110 on the second attempt - he still loses. Plus he paid to ship it in twice which I didn't even count. Is it worth it? Might it not be more rational to let the card sell on its own (legally) rather than play this schilling game?

If anyone out there isn't already burnt out on this toplic, thanks for your thoughts.

ive mentioned this many times as a reason shilling really polices itself...on the big auction houses you would lose 20 percent...yeah some may want to protect what they think is a steal and pay the 20 percent..but really how many times can you do that as 10-20% really eats away at any profit you want to realize... just doesn't make sense as well if you have a 200 dollar card and its up to 250 which for example is 50 over VCP..why risk 'winning' the card if lose 10-20% when already way above VCP .

I keep seeing how people are saying the same card a week later on PROBSTEIN auction goes 3x what it went for last week...it really doesn't make sense...who the heck would risk 'winning' the card when they own the card when already sky high over what they would hope to expect.

there are also lots of people on net54 who say they consigned cards and got terrible results...so it cant be both ways...everyone cant be selling their cards way below market and everyone else who is buying cards that are consigned are being shilled way over market..

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Hi Guys, I normally post on the football board, hope you don't mind me jumping in... Here are 2 scenarios:

Case 1: Card has market value ~100, high bidder at 80 with hidden reserve at 100.01

The card would have sold for 80 except the owner of the cards jumps in with a schill bid of 99.99

This is basically the OP's case - cheated out of 20 bucks in my scenario. The amount doesn't matter - it's illegal, immoral, etc. I get it.

Case 2: Same as Case 1, except schill bidder gets aggressive and bids 104.99. Now he wins!

What happens next? Does he say: "Um, excuse me Mr. Consigner, I accidentally won my own item, can you please auction it again?" How awkward would that be? And even if the consigner had no ethics, how would the consigner know it isn't a sting?

Does the schiller just quietly buy his own item? Let's do the math. Say he paid 95 originally, 104.99 + 3.50 shipping, so he's up to 203.49. But he gets a consignment check for 104.99*.88 = 92.39. So he's out 111.10 on the card now. If he sends it in again and gets say 110 on the second attempt - he still loses. Plus he paid to ship it in twice which I didn't even count. Is it worth it? Might it not be more rational to let the card sell on its own (legally) rather than play this schilling game?

If anyone out there isn't already burnt out on this toplic, thanks for your thoughts.

There is no penalty to a buyer if they win something on ebay and don't pay for it...Thus, a consignor who shills their own auction and wins simply doesn't pay for it ...The item then gets put back up for auction and/or given back to the consignor...

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Case 2: Same as Case 1, except schill bidder gets aggressive and bids 104.99. Now he wins! What happens next?

The shiller (now knowing the legit bidder put in a max bid of $100.01) would likely retract his bid and then re-bid to $100, pushing the legit bidder to his max.

That's why when you see accounts with large amounts of bid retractions, suspicions are aroused. I've been on ebay for probably 15 years and don't think I've EVER retracted a bid. But there are accounts with a year or two of service and 50+ bid retractions. Doesn't make sense.