T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley

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Posted By: Richard

Morning Folks,

Is there any chance somebody can post a scan of Joe Kelley's T215 Red Cross card? I suspect the pose is the same as his T206, T213 and T214 poses, but wonder if the card lists the team as Toronto or New York.

Any chance somebody knows?

Thanks!

Richard.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Here you go:

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Posted By: Richard

Wow Rob, that was quick!

Secretly I was hoping the card listed him with a team other than Toronto so that I didn't have to add it to my wantlist (shifting focus to include pre-war Toronto cards) -- I don't imagine that card comes around too often.

Thanks!

Richard.

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Posted By: Paul

I know he is listed with New York in some sets. Does anyone know what role he played with New York? I have a Sporting News book that attempted to list every Hall of Famer's relationship with each team, including managing, coaching, and in some cases even scouting. But it has no reference to Kelley with New York.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

I believe John Brush owned the New York Giants and The Cincinnati Reds at the same time, when he hired Kelley as playing manager of the Reds. That's the only connection to New York, however tenuous, that I'm aware of. That is, aside from the New York AL designations on some cards.

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Posted By: Andrew

Richard,

I'm new to vintage baseball (I collect pre war hockey, sorry, haha) but I check this board daily and your question really made me curious, a Toronto team? What league would this have been in? (I'm so interested because I live only 45min. away from Toronto and I thought we only had the Blue Jays as a big league team.)

Good question!!

Thanks to whoever posted the scan.

Andrew

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Welcome Andrew,

In 1912, Imperial Tobacco issued a set of minor league cards for the International League. It was given the American Card Catalog # C46. Here is the lone example that I own of a catcher, Bradley Kocher,who played for Toronto.



Patrick

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Posted By: Richard

Hey Andrew,

Technically, I think the Blue Jays are Toronto's first big league club, but they're certainly not the first professional team out of TO.

Toronto has had professional teams since at least the 1890s that have played under different names and in different leagues. If you look back, I think you may find that the baseball team beat the hockey team to the name 'Maple Leafs' by a few years.

More recently, the 'Toronto Maple Leafs' play in the Intercounty League and play their home games at Christie Pitts.

Anyway, I'm still reading and learning about this stuff myself, so rather than rehash this like I'm some kind of expert, I'll refer you to a handful of links that I've found in the last little while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Maple_Leafs_%28minor_league_baseball%29
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/history/top100.jsp
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Toronto_Maple_Leafs

Anyone else out there have any good links for pre-war minor league baseball?
Anyone know of any books that get into roster/statistical details of the Eastern League and/or International League?

Regards,

Richard.

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Posted By: Richard

Great card Patrick.

Other pre-war issues that I've found contain Toronto players:

T206 (5 players)
T213-2 (2 players)
T201 (single card; 2 players)
E254/E270 (around 10-12, still checklisting)
T215 (single card)
M116 (single card)
1933 Goudey (single card)


Anyone know of any others?

Richard.

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Posted By: Andrew

Richard,

Thanks so much, those links will keep me busy tonight!!

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Richard, just off the top of my head I can think of a few you are missing...

1887-90 N172 Old Judge
1898 Cameo Pepsin Pins (team pin)
1912 C46 Imperial Tobacco
1936 World Wide Gum
1937 R314 Creamy Canadian Players (Designated as type D or Set 5 depending on who you listen to)

-Rhett

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Just thought of another one...

1939 V351 World Wide Gum

-Rhett

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Posted By: fkw

Here is an example of the very rare 1936 R314D/R314 type 5/V352 cards (includes many International League Toronto and Montreal players).

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Posted By: Richard

Oh gees...I have those N172s in my checklist and forgot to include them. I didn't know about the 1936 WWG or the 1937 R314s though. Thanks!

Frank -- can you tell me more about the V351 issue? I've never even heard of it, let alone that it includes some Toronto players.

Turns out another set that I forgot is the 1950 V362 WWG set.

Guess I have a bit more checklist work to do.

Thanks guys!

Richard.

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Posted By: fkw

Rhett's card above mine is the V351. The Scarcella is listed in the ACC as V352 but most collectors call it a R314D or R314 type 5.

There are 39 different Canadian players in the set (Montreal or Toronto). Very tough cards, Im always looking for them and only see maybe 2-3 a year on eBay if that.

Almost all of the info I have learned about these cards (and other R313/R314 style cards) is from a 7 page feature in the Old Cardboard magazine issue #7 (Spring 2006) by Tim Newcomb.

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Posted By: Richard

Thanks for the extra info, Frank.

And thanks for yet another reason to go to OC and buy a run of their magazines. One of these days I'll do it.

Regards,

Richard.