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Old 10-24-2017, 07:20 PM
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realbigfatdog realbigfatdog is offline
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Default Looking for help identifying these three cards:

I purchased these three cards on eBay recently and I'm having some difficulty identifying the set they are from. The seller had them listed as E121, hand cut from an advertising sheet. He had several for sale, I bought the three Yankees he had. They are Frank Baker, Wally Pipp, and Carl Mays (misspelled May on card). While doing some research, first on Facebook (Tobacco Row), then on a few older threads here on net54, I found that they may be from the 1921 Koester's Bread set D383, or possibly from the 1922 W575-1 strip cards set. But I'm still a little confused. None of the threads mention the Mays card with the misspelling. Also, I have no idea how thick the card stock should be on either set. Help!!!

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Old 10-24-2017, 07:26 PM
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Aaaaaaand, my pictures will not upload. Grrrrrrrr......
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:42 PM
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Auction link?
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:49 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/F56-J-Frank...vip=true&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/F53-Walter-...vip=true&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/F52-Carl-Ma...vip=true&rt=nc

Let's see if this works. These are the auction listings.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2017, 08:33 PM
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They are either W575 or Koester bread. Koester bread card stock is thicker than W575.
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  #6  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quitcrab View Post
They are either W575 or Koester bread. Koester bread card stock is thicker than W575.
Whichever they are, they are horribly trimmed and most likely would/should only get an "Authentic" grade, at best. Calling these "Poor" is an unbelievable compliment, in my opinion! Both issues are supposed to measure around 2" X 3-1/4", and I doubt any of these three are even close.

Also, if these are not Koester bread cards, they are possibly W575-1 cards, not simply W575 cards. There is a W575-2 version issued in 1922 that is decidedly and easily identifiable as different than W575-1 cards. (Which is actually a good question for another thread as to why these two so different sets of cards, issued in two different years, would be be put under the same W575 designation.)

As an earlier poster pointed out, the W575-1 cards are supposed to be on thinner stock than the Koester Bread cards. Is the the thickness on all three of these cards the same? If so, the May(s) card may help to identify the correct issue all three of these are from.

In the Standard Catalog I have access to here at work (2009 version) the checklists for the 1921 E121 and W575-1 cards both include listings for Mays cards with his name spelled correctly and incorrectly on different versions. For Koester Bread cards, the checklist only includes a listing for a single version of the Mays card with his name spelled correctly. Assuming the Standard Catalog checklists are accurate, the fact that your card is the incorrectly spelled version of Mays would seem to indicate it is a W575-1 card and not a Koester Bread card. And if the thickness of all three cards are exactly the same, I would assume the other two cards are then W575-1s also. That is a huge difference in the value of these cards if that is the case, and not one in your favor!
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Old 10-25-2017, 05:03 PM
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Thank you! I was only looking to correctly identify them, the monetary value is really not important to me. They are strictly for my own personal collection (I collect Yankees team sets), so I merely wanted to know what I had. I didn't pay all that much for them (about $65 combined), so no real worries there. The original seller had them listed as E121, but I was pretty sure that was incorrect. I also figured they probably were not Koester's cards since there were only players from the Giants and Yanks produced that year, and the seller had similar cards from other teams (like the Dodgers' Zack Wheat). That led me to believe that they were most likely W575-1's since they were strip cards and these are obviously cut (badly). I just couldn't find a checklist and the May(s) card had ne perplexed, as well. Thank you for digging for me, Bob. I really appreciate it.
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:59 PM
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I'm glad you didn't pay that much for them then. Just out of curiosity how thin do they feel to you? I have examples of both cards but, all the ones I have were graded and you literally can't tell the difference between the W575-1s and Koester cards in holders. I didn't feel like breaking them out just to compare the thickness of the two issues.

Are the ones you have, which are most likley W575-1s then, really paper thin-like or is there still some thickness and rigidity to them? If possible, do you have any other cards you would say the thickness is comparable to? Trying to pick up a little knowledge myself as I don't normally come across dealers local to me that have raw examples of both types of cards that I could just handle to make a comparison with. LOL

Thanks, and glad you're happy to add them to your collection.
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Old 10-25-2017, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
I'm glad you didn't pay that much for them then. Just out of curiosity how thin do they feel to you? I have examples of both cards but, all the ones I have were graded and you literally can't tell the difference between the W575-1s and Koester cards in holders. I didn't feel like breaking them out just to compare the thickness of the two issues.

Are the ones you have, which are most likley W575-1s then, really paper thin-like or is there still some thickness and rigidity to them? If possible, do you have any other cards you would say the thickness is comparable to? Trying to pick up a little knowledge myself as I don't normally come across dealers local to me that have raw examples of both types of cards that I could just handle to make a comparison with. LOL

Thanks, and glad you're happy to add them to your collection.
Great info and thanks for helping.,
The W575-1s in my collection aren't really paper thin. They aren't as thick as E121 but they aren't thin like T213-1 either. That is the way all of them I have handled have been..
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:35 PM
BobC BobC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Great info and thanks for helping.,
The W575-1s in my collection aren't really paper thin. They aren't as thick as E121 but they aren't thin like T213-1 either. That is the way all of them I have handled have been..
Thanks Leon, I assumed they weren't paper thin, just never had a chance to hold a raw version of both in hand at the same to to really compare. What I've always felt/seen was that the W575-1s were more likely than not to be hand cut or trimmed when you see them, while an authentic Koester Bread card would normally be the listed dimensions of about 2" X 3-1/4". Listed as a "W" card, the W575-1s are considered "strip" cards but, not really sure if they came in strips/sheets for people to cut up. If so, that would definitely make sense for all the badly cut trimmed ones you normally see.

In the OP's case, he's just fortunate to have had the Mays spelling error card in the trio he acquired. Since Koester specifically only chose the Giant/Yankee players to be on the cards they distributed, you assume they would have paid attention to which cards they selected to give away, and obviously not made the mistake of handing out Mays cards with his last name misspelled. Without that Mays error card, it would not be so easy to determine if his cards were W575-1s or Koester Bread cards otherwise.
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