Machado to Padres

[packs]

Machado doesn't really fit in anywhere on the playoff squads. Yankees have Gregorius, Torres and Andujar; Boston has Bogaerts and Devers; Houston has Correa and Bregman; Cleveland has Ramirez and Lindor; Atlanta has Freeman and Swanson; Chicago has Russell and Bryant; LA doesn't need him with Seager and Turner.

The Brewers might have made sense but they spent their money early on Grandal. They aren't the kind of team who is going to pay 300 mil either.

Harper is more of mystery.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Machado doesn't really fit in anywhere on the playoff squads. Yankees have Gregorius, Torres and Andujar; Boston has Bogaerts and Devers; Houston has Correa and Bregman; Cleveland has Ramirez and Lindor; Atlanta has Freeman and Swanson; Chicago has Russell and Bryant; LA doesn't need him with Seager and Turner.

The Brewers might have made sense but they spent their money early on Grandal. They aren't the kind of team who is going to pay 300 mil either.

Harper is more of mystery.

Good analysis but as a Red Sox fan, leaving aside the baggage for the moment, I would take Machado over Devers or Bogaerts in an instant. We're talking about an elite hitter, and a fine infielder. I think he would have been great in Fenway. That said, I understand not wanting to lay out that kind of money and disrupt a championship team.

[packs]

I realized I'm off on Freeman. I remember him playing third in 2017 but he didn't play 3rd at all in 2018. They had Camargo there. He played reasonably well.

I think Boston probably passed because signing Machado would have meant trading either Bogaerts or Devers. Devers is cheap and they've got a lot of players coming up for free agency next year (Bogaerts included). I can see why they'd rather spread the wealth than put it all in one place.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

I realized I'm off on Freeman. I remember him playing third in 2017 but he didn't play 3rd at all in 2018. They had Camargo there. He played reasonably well.

I think Boston probably passed because signing Machado would have meant trading either Bogaerts or Devers. Devers is cheap and they've got a lot of players coming up for free agency next year (Bogaerts included). I can see why they'd rather spread the wealth than put it all in one place.

Freeman is a first baseman- 2017 only happened because they had signed Matt Adams while Freeman was injured...and Freddie volunteered to play third, even though he had not done so since HS (if my memory serves) - Adams was swinging a hot bat at the time, but Freeman was a liability at third.

Also, the Braves signed Josh Donaldson early on this offseason, looking to have him at third and using Camargo as a super-sub.

[packs]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Freeman is a first baseman- 2017 only happened because they had signed Matt Adams while Freeman was injured...and Freddie volunteered to play third, even though he had not done so since HS (if my memory serves) - Adams was swinging a hot bat at the time, but Freeman was a liability at third.

Also, the Braves signed Josh Donaldson early on this offseason, looking to have him at third and using Camargo as a super-sub.

They've also got Austin Riley knocking on the door for 3B too. Forgot about Donaldson but he may ultimately be a non-factor anyway depending on what he has left.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

Machado doesn't really fit in anywhere on the playoff squads. Yankees have Gregorius, Torres and Andujar; Boston has Bogaerts and Devers; Houston has Correa and Bregman; Cleveland has Ramirez and Lindor; Atlanta has Freeman and Swanson; Chicago has Russell and Bryant; LA doesn't need him with Seager and Turner.

The Brewers might have made sense but they spent their money early on Grandal. They aren't the kind of team who is going to pay 300 mil either.

Harper is more of mystery.

I don't know if Harper is an underachiever who will never reach the level expected or just not as good as a lot of us thought.

He is still young but has had ample opportunity to get back to his MVP level, which, in hind-sight, may turn out to be his peak. I hope not though...I have almost as many Harpers as Trouts.

IMO, until he shows some consistency, he's not worth the 'max' deals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I don't know if Harper is an underachiever who will never reach the level expected or just not as good as a lot of us thought.

He is still young but has had ample opportunity to get back to his MVP level, which, in hind-sight, may turn out to be his peak. I hope not though...I have almost as many Harpers as Trouts.

IMO, until he shows some consistency, he's not worth the 'max' deals.

Indeed in light of so many off years from Harper I might take Machado over Harper. Heresy perhaps.

[Bagwell-1994]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I don't know if Harper is an underachiever who will never reach the level expected or just not as good as a lot of us thought.



He is still young but has had ample opportunity to get back to his MVP level, which, in hind-sight, may turn out to be his peak. I hope not though...I have almost as many Harpers as Trouts.



IMO, until he shows some consistency, he's not worth the 'max' deals.

My thoughts exactly. Harper is (assuming) trying to command a record-setting type free agent deal.. A-Rod/Pujols/Cabrera type money but he has nowhere near the consistency or numerous prolific seasons that any of those guys had to earn their hefty contracts. He has one brilliant 10-WAR season, and three 1-WAR seasons, all in all averaging 3.9 WAR per year. That's not elite/record setting money-worthy IMO. His best season is what Trout AVERAGES over every year of his career (9.1 WAR... close enough) perhaps not fair to compare people to Trout, just for point of reference.

Even Machado has averaged 4.8 WAR per season and has much more consistency in elite performance than Harper.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bagwell-1994

My thoughts exactly. Harper is (assuming) trying to command a record-setting type free agent deal.. A-Rod/Pujols/Cabrera type money but he has nowhere near the consistency or numerous prolific seasons that any of those guys had to earn their hefty contracts. He has one brilliant 10-WAR season, and three 1-WAR seasons, all in all averaging 3.9 WAR per year. That's not elite/record setting money-worthy IMO. His best season is what Trout AVERAGES over every year of his career (9.1 WAR... close enough) perhaps not fair to compare people to Trout, just for point of reference.

Even Machado has averaged 4.8 WAR per season and has much more consistency in elite performance than Harper.

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The book is still very much out on Harper, but given the undeniable potential, teams are going to take risks.

[packs]

I guess the question is whether or not there is potential to be better or only a potential that he continues to trend the other way.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The book is still very much out on Harper, but given the undeniable potential, teams are going to take risks.

Looks like the only team to take the risk may be Philly. If I'm Philly, my offer is less now.

Aside from Harpers MVP season way back in 2015, he led the league in 1 category ( over a 7 year career ). That was last year in walks.

Huge chunk of change for a player that doesn't lead the league in anything, except walks one year.

I just don't see it. Maybe someone else does, but his stats don't add to 300 mil to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Looks like the only team to take the risk may be Philly. If I'm Philly, my offer is less now.

Aside from Harpers MVP season way back in 2015, he led the league in 1 category ( over a 7 year career ). That was last year in walks.

Huge chunk of change for a player that doesn't lead the league in anything, except walks one year.

I just don't see it. Maybe someone else does, but his stats don't add to 300 mil to me.

It's the promise of that one great season, plus flashes of his undeniable talent and the belief that he can somehow put whatever has held him back behind him. I'm not sure he's worth it.

[Bagwell-1994]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The book is still very much out on Harper, but given the undeniable potential, teams are going to take risks.

I would understand taking a risk due to the potential upside as he enters his peak years. But it seems to me a shorter deal for high annual average salary would be more fitting and safe for the team involved. Reportedly turning down a 10-year $300 million offer from Nats implies he was searching for even MORE than that which is just ludicrous in my view. Gigantic money should be rewarded based on proven performance, not on potential, IMO.

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[KCRfan1]

Yes every MLB team can afford the top FA's.

However on the owners side, they still run a team as a business.

Is the team near the luxury tax? What will that cost me if I go over? How does the player fit the team in the coming years? Can the player help me win? Anticipating which players are going to the FA market in the next couple of years? Will I get a return on my money in attendance, merchandise sales not only this year but the years to come? What is the character of the player? Are they a leader or a mentor?

Players side, what's in it for me?

Do I want to win? If so, how long will I have to wait? Will I like the organization? Do I like the community or location? Will this move help my career? Is it only about the money? How important is my legacy with the team I was with prior to FA? Are there family obligations to location?

In terms of how long it has taken for Harper or Machado to sign, teams just aren't going to throw 300M around quickly.

And neither player was in a hurry to sign quickly anyway.

THEY said so themselves.

I'm not sure why other players are upset about how much time has passed.

It seems that the players have forgotten the agents work for the players. The players have received VERY poor advice from their agents.

Moose is a perfect example. Turned down a 17M qualifying offer last year from KC, tested FA and strongly rumored to have turned down a 4 and 60 from the Angels. Ended up signing with KC for 6 or 7 M. This year, reups with the Brewers for 1 year at 10M.

Surprisingly, Moose kept his agent rather than firing him. Boras.

The agents have failed to adjust to a changing market for the players.

Teams will spend, they're just being smarter with the dollars.

Players in their early 30's are not going to get a 5yr deal. 2 maybe 3, but not 5.

Kimbrel wanting all sorts of years and cash.....many times closers are interchangeable . Does a team spend the cash for Kimbrel or look internal or at a reasonable external player with a closer mentality?

Again, the agent needs to be in touch with market climate and honest with his client, the player. Teams are viewing Kimbrels ask as unreasonable.

There's no collusion. Owners are spending smarter. Time will tell if the Padres spent well on Manny. Hosmer needs to show better.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the FA market plays out and who ends up where.