1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by cardinalcollector

The SH45 card of Bobby Doerr is a 1975 Sport Hobbyist collectors issue. They have been cataloged in the SCD catalog.

Thank you. It's not in my 1988 SCD edition.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by griffon512

Maybe I missed it in the novella, but it is unclear to me how you are distinguishing "Sport Star Subjects" from "Bond Bread." Please explain it clearly so a layman could make the distinction if analyzing the two different sets, or maybe someone else can if there is validity to it. If there is not a clear distinction in appearance than the presumption you are making below is just based on how packaging differences are likely to impact the condition of the cards, rather than other objective data.

Okay James, You want an answer on how to distinguish the Bond Bread insert cards from Sport Star Subjects cards. I assume we all want the same for the Festberg remainders and other related cards too.

While picture defects in the halftone master used to make all of the molded lead die-cuts used to print the Bond Bread inserts, the Sport Star Subjects, and the Festberg remainders will all be consistent throughout, the specific die-cut defects of those cuts used to print the Sport Star Subject cards will be different than those on the die-cuts used to print original Bond Bread inserts. The Festberg remainder find is reported to have contained less than 5,000 of each card, which could mean that only one die-cut per player was used in printing the cards in the hoard.

We need genuine examples of Bond Bread insert cards to compare against genuine examples of Sport Star Subjects cards to see what non-consistent printing flaws appear on Sport Star Subjects cards. Only one of each original Bond Bread insert card would be sufficient to identify the differences. However, with more than one die-cut per player used to print the estimated quantity of Sport Star Subjects sets made, more than one of each player card from the Sport Star Subjects set will be needed to fully identify all varieties. The cards from one Sport Star Subjects set will give us a good start.

We all owe a thanks to David M., member GasHouseGang, who had the foresight to give us in Post #216 above pictures of the complete Sport Star Subjects set that sold on eBay in May 2020 for $4545. David did the best he could, and acknowledges no higher resolution scans were available from eBay. Those scans may help us identify some rudimentary die-cut flaws distinctions of that set, but without high resolution scans the real details cannot be seen. Scans of cards should be made of cards taken outside of any sleeves, slabs or anything else that could distort the image.

Here is what I propose:

Ted, you started this. You have original Bond Bread cards taken from Bond Bread packages that you collected way back then. If you would kindly post a high resolution scan of the front of each different original package insert card you have, we would have a base from which to identify the distinctive printing flaws of Sport Star Subjects cards that are not on the master halftone from which the die-cuts used to print all of the cards were made. From other scans you have posted in this thread, it seems that you are able to provide sufficiently high resolution to make distinctions even when you post cards in groups of four, six or so. You know the limitations of your scanner and can post accordingly. If you cannot post all the different cards, perhaps, others can fill in the blanks?

I will post most of the cards from the Festberg remainders, as I have many of them loose in card sleeves.

I would ask anyone who has access to any card(s) from the Sports Star Subjects set to post a good scan of the front of the card(s). Both rounded and square corner cards are needed.

If anyone has any other ideas on how we can do this, let us know.

Thanks, Mike

[phikappapsi]

man this has been a lot of words for an "i dunno"

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

man this has been a lot of words for an "i dunno"

I didn't say "I dunno". As I have repeated said in this Appendix, its purpose is to identify the issues, not resolve them, and that would appear in the main text of this article. I have been researching and drafting for that part a reasonable explanation of how to generally tell Bond Bread cards from Sport Star Subjects cards. People accept the absolute opinion of grading card services as to what is a "Bond Bread" card and spend money based on their false conclusions. With every general rule, there may be exceptions. Your response is appreciated because it indicates the need for a rule without potential exceptions before many will consider the issue has resolution and any change in current identifications will be made.

I specifically requested the posting of precise information which if provided will eliminate such exceptions to a rule and fully define the difference between Bond Bread package insert cards and Sport Star Subject cards. If you have any cards you can guarantee are original Bond Bread insert or Sport Star Subjects cards, please post them. Do not dismiss the prior request for posting of cards as many may not be satisfied with just a general rule.

Thanks, Mike

[tedzan]

For you new members that don't know me, as a kid I collected Sportscards from 1947 to 1952. I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my
original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards).
All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones. I have (or had) the SQUARE cornered cards from these boxes,
Baseball and Movie Stars.



Really, it absolutely defies common sense for the BB cards in the Sport Star Subjects boxes to have ROUNDED corners.

What I suspect is that either the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards were "stuffed" into these 4 boxes....OR....the original 1949 SQUARE cornered cards were beveled and
"stuffed" into the 4 boxes. I inquired of other veteran hobbyist; and, they do NOT recall ever seeing this unusual stuff. It appears to me (and others) that this is possibly
a relatively recent "scam"on the hobby.

Why would any one resort to this kind of fraud is anyone's guess. Perhaps, because for a long time the Grading Companies would not grade the 1947 BOND BREAD cards,
and some "genius" thought that this would persuade the Graders to be inclined to grade these cards.

Whatever, I want no part of this shameless scam. I do not accept the legitimacy of ROUNDED cornered cards within Sport Stars Subjects (or Movie Star Subjects) boxes.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[spec]

I'm not quite as ancient as my friend Ted, so I didn't collect these when they were issued, but I have had for many years the four movie star boxed sets (plus another dated 1951) and ALL have rounded corners just like the Bond Bread baseball cards.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

For you new members that don't know me, as a kid I collected Sportscards from 1947 to 1952. I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my
original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards).
All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones. I have (or had) the SQUARE cornered cards from these boxes,
Baseball and Movie Stars.



Really, it absolutely defies common sense for the BB cards in the Sport Star Subjects boxes to have ROUNDED corners.

The reason for the rounded corners will be explained in the main text. Just because you haven't seen them does not mean they do not exist. Just yesterday I posted a Bobby Doerr card I had never seen before. It had been identified by the seller as a Bond Bread card. After it arrived, I asked the readers of this thread what it was. Cardinalcollector responded it was a 1975 Sports Heritage collector's edition. I had never heard of the set before. Two other cards from that set also have the same pictures as used in the Bond Bread insert set - those are that set's #SH144 Ralph Kiner and #SH136 Vern Stephens. We want to prove what all of the cards are. In terms of actual proof, which would have more evidentiary value, "I never seen the cards before" or "I have had [them] for many years . . . and ALL have rounded corners just like the Bond Bread baseball cards?" Look at Post #216 of 5-14 2020 above to see a rounded corner Sport Star Subjects set.

Ted, don't give up. We really need your help. You are one of the few people who still has cards that can be proven to have been taken out of Bond Bread packages. Please post the front of each different Bond Bread insert card you have so that we can make the distinction between them and the Sport Star Subjects cards as I suggested earlier today in Post #252.

Thanks, Mike

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones. I have (or had) the SQUARE cornered cards from these boxes,
Baseball and Movie Stars.

Really, it absolutely defies common sense for the BB cards in the Sport Star Subjects boxes to have ROUNDED corners.

What I suspect is that either the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards were "stuffed" into these 4 boxes....OR....the original 1949 SQUARE cornered cards were beveled and
"stuffed" into the 4 boxes. I inquired of other veteran hobbyist; and, they do NOT recall ever seeing this unusual stuff.

It appears to me (and others) that this is possibly a relatively recent "scam" on the hobby.

Why would any one resort to this kind of fraud is anyone's guess. Perhaps, because for a long time the Grading Companies would not grade the 1947 BOND BREAD cards,
and some "genius" thought that this would persuade the Graders to be inclined to grade these cards.

Whatever, I want no part of this shameless scam. I do not accept the legitimacy of ROUNDED cornered cards within Sport Stars Subjects (or Movie Star Subjects) boxes.
.

Originally Posted by spec

I'm not quite as ancient as my friend Ted, so I didn't collect these when they were issued, but I have had for many years the four movie star boxed sets (plus another dated 1951) and ALL have rounded corners just like the Bond Bread baseball cards.

Spec

How long ago is....." I have had for many years the four movie star boxed sets " ?


Here are samples from my Movie Star set.....




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by tedzan

For you new members that don't know me, as a kid I collected Sportscards from 1947 to 1952. I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my
original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards).
All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones. I have (or had) the SQUARE cornered cards from these boxes,
Baseball and Movie Stars.



Really, it absolutely defies common sense for the BB cards in the Sport Star Subjects boxes to have ROUNDED corners.

What I suspect is that either the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards were "stuffed" into these 4 boxes....OR....the original 1949 SQUARE cornered cards were beveled and
"stuffed" into the 4 boxes. I inquired of other veteran hobbyist; and, they do NOT recall ever seeing this unusual stuff. It appears to me (and others) that this is possibly
a relatively recent "scam"on the hobby.

Why would any one resort to this kind of fraud is anyone's guess. Perhaps, because for a long time the Grading Companies would not grade the 1947 BOND BREAD cards,
and some "genius" thought that this would persuade the Graders to be inclined to grade these cards.

Whatever, I want no part of this shameless scam. I do not accept the legitimacy of ROUNDED cornered cards within Sport Stars Subjects (or Movie Star Subjects) boxes.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Thank you Ted. Well said.

Isn’t it possible individuals are simply clipping the corners off of the cards that originated from the Sports Star Subjects set and passing them off as Bond Breads?

[abctoo]

Here's a scan of the fronts of three cards and the backs of three others from my packaged Screen Star Subjects set. Do you need to see more? You be the judge.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here are samples from my Movie Star set.....




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Mike....or, anyone else interested in this stuff.

We are waiting for a logical, common sense explanation as to why anyone (or a Company) would bevel the corners of these cards (which were SQUARE to begin with),
and were intended to be inserted into SQUARE boxes ? ?

So far, your very elaborate presentation has failed to answer this very elementary question.

.

[spec]

Hi Ted,
Since I purchased my Movie Star Subjects long ago and am satisfied that they are authentic and unaltered, I don't require a "logical, common sense explanation" for the rounded corners. However, I would offer this possibility: The firm that printed the Bond Bread cards later contracted to furnish cards of ball players, boxers and movie stars to W.S./N.Y. (Wildman?), using overstock or at least the same setup they used for the Bond cards. Upon reorder, or running out of overstock, they decided it was cheaper (or at least unnecessary) to round the corners. Of course, this is purely conjecture, but it is "logical."

[phikappapsi]

In reverse, I find it nebulous at best to simply assume that any card with Round corners that also happens to be in good condition; is somehow not bond bread but rather a Screen Star Subject card

seems like an awful lot of sizzle for no steak.

I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that some cards from both the SSS and the BB cards were simply sourced from the same 3rd party manufacturer, hence the crossover in images/print/and corner cropping.

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by spec

Hi Ted,
However, I would offer this possibility: The firm that printed the Bond Bread cards later contracted to furnish cards of ball players, boxers and movie stars to W.S./N.Y. (Wildman?), using overstock or at least the same setup they used for the Bond cards. Upon reorder, or running out of overstock, they decided it was cheaper (or at least unnecessary) to round the corners. Of course, this is purely conjecture, but it is "logical."

This to me seems like the most logical conclusion. Since it's unlikely that Bond Bread was actually printing their own cards in house; I'd believe it entirely possible the exact same setup was used to produce the SSS cards, at the same manufacturer, and then an equipment or process update changed the format from round to squared on all of the above.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by spec

Hi Ted,
Since I purchased my Movie Star Subjects long ago and am satisfied that they are authentic and unaltered, I don't require a "logical, common sense explanation" for the rounded corners. However, I would offer this possibility: The firm that printed the Bond Bread cards later contracted to furnish cards of ball players, boxers and movie stars to W.S./N.Y. (Wildman?), using overstock or at least the same setup they used for the Bond cards. Upon reorder, or running out of overstock, they decided it was cheaper (or at least unnecessary) to round the corners. Of course, this is purely conjecture, but it is "logical."

Hi spec

When I asked when did you acquire Movie Star Subjects, I was hoping you would state a date (year).
As I am trying to develop a timeline when the Square cards (Sports & Movie Stars) first appeared with Rounded corners. So far, four dates have been reported.

Circa 1949/1950 when the original sets of these B/W Sports cards and Movie Star cards were issued, they were only Square cards....PERIOD !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[spec]

Ted,
It's been long enough that I don't recall when or where I purchased my movie star sets, but I believe it was about 20 years ago.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by spec

Ted,
It's been long enough that I don't recall when or where I purchased my movie star sets, but I believe it was about 20 years ago.

Thanks, spec

That date is very consistent with the other dates that have been reported, so far.

Take care,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[abctoo]

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Five (Working)

5. Perforated printed two-sided cards with Sports, Hollywood and Cowboys pictured.

This set consists of 48 cards printed on two sheets of 24 each. Twenty two of the cards per sheet have pictures on both sides. The two others were printed with a picture on one side and half of the sheet description in text on the other. A look at that side of a sheet with description placed right-side up will show the sheet has three vertical rows of perforations and five horizontal running fully through the sheet with its edges imperforate (straight edges). Thus the corner cards are perforated on two adjoining sides, while edge cards are perforated on 3 sides , and those in the middle perforated all around (all four sides). The three side perforated cards that are not perforated on a short side come from the top and bottom of the sheet, while those not perforated on the long side are cards from the left and right sides of the sheet. Again, if looking at the side with the descriptive text reading rightside up, the two adjoining text backs appear in the middle of the second row from the bottom as part of the bottom twelve cards all facing rightside up. The upper twelve cards are printed up-side down to the bottom half , so that if you turned that side of the sheet 180 degrees they would be right-side up at the bottom with the 12 containing the descriptive text upside down.

The most famous card from this set is the one that appeared in a 2011 Bob Lemke blog. The unidentified card he pictured is Randolph Scott with the other side the righthand half of the printed descriptive text. That card was rubbered stamped “HESS SHOES.” Bob Lemke's picture has been used by many since to describe the set and thereby is sometimes mistakenly named the “Hess Shoes Set.”



Description text cards were issued without the “HESS SHOES” stamping. Other than a duplication of the exact picture provided by Lemke, I have been unable to find another one of the same card or any other card with the “HESS SHOES” stamping. That does not mean that Hess Shoes was not actively engaging in the promotion of similar pictures at other times. Shown below are part of a Hess Shoes pre-WWII promotion.












We have reconstructed one of the two 24 card sheets of the two-sided printed perforated cards and are working on the second. Below are scans of cards that we cannot definitively attribute to its other side. These pictures below may include both the front and the back of the same card, but again we cannot say which are matching or which pictures may be missing. In other cases, the scans need to be upgraded. I would personally appreciate anyone who will match any of these cards to a picture or provide a picture of a missing side for any of the pictured cards.








More on other sets to come.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[tedzan]

I will reiterate, my experience as a kid growing up in the 1940's and 1950's and when I got back in this great hobby (1977) is that until recently (circa 1990's),
I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects. I have the SQUARE cornered cards from these boxes (an assortment of BB
cards and a near complete set of the Movie Stars).


..………… V-------- 2 7/16" ---------V by 3 7/16" length (variation is +/- 1/16")


Since some of you do not agree that it absolutely defies common sense for the BB cards in the Sport Star Subjects boxes to have ROUNDED corners.
Then consider this: there was an Album available in the early 1950's to mount these SQUARE cards (there was a scan of this Album in an earlier Post
here; however, it appears to have been withdrawn). It was typical of of Photo albums of that period, where each card fit into four diagonal slots on a
page of "N" number of slots. If these cards had ROUNDED corners back then, these slots would not hold these cards.

Anyway, it is your prerogative to think the way you do concerning these ROUNDED cards. I do not accept the legitimacy of ROUNDED cornered cards
being inserted in original (circa 1949 - 1950) Sport Stars Subjects (or Movie Star Subjects) boxes.

Furthermore, I have compared notes with veteran collectors/dealers who do not recall seeing the boxed cards containing ROUNDED corner cards back
in the 1970's - 1980's.

This "phenomena" appears to be evident since the 1990's. So far, I have surveyed 5 collectors who have such cards (from the 4 SSS boxes), and all 5
have said they acquired them since 1990's and the 2000's.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Harford20]

Although no longer mine as of last month, I owned this card for the last 15 years.

Dave

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Harford20

Although no longer mine as of last month, I owned this card for the last 15 years.

Dave

I like that card. I should have spoken up sooner.

Thanks for posting.

Mike

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Mike....or, anyone else interested in this stuff.

We are waiting for a logical, common sense explanation as to why anyone (or a Company) would bevel the corners of these cards (which were SQUARE to begin with),
and were intended to be inserted into SQUARE boxes ? ?

So far, your very elaborate presentation has failed to answer this very elementary question.

.

It makes no common sense to me to attribute every Bond Bread look alike that has a white back and rounded corners as a Bond Bread insert card. This has been done for many cards posted in this thread. We cannot dispute Sport Star Subjects sets exist with rounded corners, regardless of when manufactured. It is not common sense to apply an arbitrary definition to something it is not.

Ted, I made a simple request to resolve the issue. If you have not mixed the cards you acquired after you returned to the hobby in 1977 with your original Bond Bread insert cards taken from Bond Bread packages and can still distinguish which are the cards you actually obtained from Bond Bread packages, please post scans of the original insert cards so that the Sport Star Subjects cards with rounded corners can be distinguished from them by the molded lead die-cuts used.

Also, if anyone who has the square cornered Sport Star Subjects set would post that, we would have a basis to determine whether a card being offered is a trimmed corner card from that set.

Of course, the scans need to be of sufficient high quality to show the printing details.

Thanks, Mike

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by abctoo

1st
We cannot dispute Sport Star Subjects sets exist with rounded corners, regardless of when manufactured. It is not common sense to apply an arbitrary definition to something it is not.

2nd
Ted, I made a simple request to resolve the issue. If you have not mixed the cards you acquired after you returned to the hobby in 1977 with your original Bond Bread insert cards taken from Bond Bread packages and can still distinguish which are the cards you actually obtained from Bond Bread packages, please post scans of the original insert cards so that the Sport Star Subjects cards with rounded corners can be distinguished from them by the molded lead die-cuts used.

1st
How come you have NOT addressed the fact that NO collector/dealer has seen SSS boxes containing ROUNDED cornered cards prior to the 1990's ?
I have contacted several of the veteran collectors / dealers whom I have known since the 1970's. They all agree that these ROUNDED cards within
SSS boxes are some thing new that first appeared in the 1990's.

2nd
I already have posted scans throughout this thread of several of my 1947 BOND BREAD cards. Have you bothered to see them ? Yet, you continue
to "bug" me with this request.
Well, forget it !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[abctoo]

Ted, You missed my point. You said in Post #255, "I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards). / All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones."

I have seen every card posted in this thread more than one time including those you posted. Along with a glossy picture of Joe DiMaggio from a Team Photo Pack you posted a Bond Bread insert card with two opposite corners not cut through. The card is an excellent example of the edge and corner die cutting not going completely through the stack of cards sheets being cut.

If you look at the die cutting on the Joe DiMaggio card you will see it comes from the same die cutter as used on each card of the four series of the Sport Star Subjects set issued with rounded corners.

Again, I have seen every card you have posted in this thread. It is unclear to me which of those cards you obtained from original Bond Bread packages and which you obtained after you returned to the hobby years later.

I am concerned that since you had not seen a die cut corner on a Sport Star Subjects card, that cards from that set are being misattributed as Bond Bread insert cards.

It's not difficult to look at the cards you already posted, but how do I know which of those you obtained directly from Bond Bread packages and which you did not?. That difference goes to the heart of distinguishing the two sets.

If you are unwilling or unable to post cards that you can definitively say you obtained from Bond Bread packages, would you at least identify which of the photos you have posted over the past 12 years are of original cards you obtained from bread packages and did not acquire at a later date?

As to the rounded corner Sport Star Subjects, most dealers have never heard of the square corner set. It's a little premature to definitively rule out the existence of a rounded corner set before 1980 when some have indicated they purchased one in 1947.

Thanks, Mike

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by abctoo

Ted, You missed my point. You said in Post #255, "I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards). / All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones."

I have seen every card posted in this thread more than one time including those you posted. Along with a glossy picture of Joe DiMaggio from a Team Photo Pack you posted a Bond Bread insert card with two opposite corners not cut through. The card is an excellent example of the edge and corner die cutting not going completely through the stack of cards sheets being cut.

If you look at the die cutting on the Joe DiMaggio card you will see it comes from the same die cutter as used on each card of the four series of the Sport Star Subjects set issued with rounded corners.

Again, I have seen every card you have posted in this thread. It is unclear to me which of those cards you obtained from original Bond Bread packages and which you obtained after you returned to the hobby years later.

I am concerned that since you had not seen a die cut corner on a Sport Star Subjects card, that cards from that set are being misattributed as Bond Bread insert cards.

It's not difficult to look at the cards you already posted, but how do I know which of those you obtained directly from Bond Bread packages and which you did not?. That difference goes to the heart of distinguishing the two sets.

If you are unwilling or unable to post cards that you can definitively say you obtained from Bond Bread packages, would you at least identify which of the photos you have posted over the past 12 years are of original cards you obtained from bread packages and did not acquire at a later date?

As to the rounded corner Sport Star Subjects, most dealers have never heard of the square corner set. It's a little premature to definitively rule out the existence of a rounded corner set before 1980 when some have indicated they purchased one in 1947.

Thanks, Mike

All due respect as it seems you’re trying to add value, but the tone of these posts is grating to me. Seems you’re challenging Ted and putting onus on he and others to prove your theory by posting high resolution scans. Guys like Ted have freely provided input from their research for years, and I think that work is universally appreciated.

I have a headache from reading, trying to interpret the recent posts, but still don’t see clear proof the rounded corner cards sold on eBay actually came from those boxes. Boxes, like cigarette packs (often displayed here) can be re-packaged with cards for display, and sold. Perhaps that happened here.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

All due respect as it seems you’re trying to add value, but the tone of these posts is grating to me. Seems you’re challenging Ted and putting onus on he and others to prove your theory by posting high resolution scans. Guys like Ted have freely provided input from their research for years, and I think that work is universally appreciated.

I have a headache from reading, trying to interpret the recent posts, but still don’t see clear proof the rounded corner cards sold on eBay actually came from those boxes. Boxes, like cigarette packs (often displayed here) can be re-packaged with cards for display, and sold. Perhaps that happened here.

Ted has done an exceptional effort to raise the issues of Bond Bread set and its look-alikes and has contributed much elsewhere to the understanding of obscure cards. His completion of the T206 set with Carolina Brights (correction added) backs is a task none even contemplated could be done. We are all thankful for his efforts.

My concern is that several major auction houses (not eBay) have offered auctions lots over the years which they titled as Bond Bread cards, but both in the pictures they provided and in the text indicated the cards came from Sport Star Subjects boxes. Even today, you can't find the Sport Star Subjects set (square of rounded corners) mentioned in a catalog. OldCardboard doesn't but says for the Bond Bread insert set that it exists with both square and rounded corners, and to compound the matter says that cards with many square and rounded corners exist in high grade. Wouldn't it be nice to know what they are talking about?

My quires to Ted are not to challenge him, but to begin a real effort based on objective fact to tell Bond Bread insert cards apart from the cards in the Sport Star Subjects set.

I'm sorry if it seems like I am being overly critical of Ted. I am not. Without a clear picture of what is a Bond Bread insert and what came from a Sport Star Subjects set, many have been misled and will continue to be misled into believing what they have is not actually what they have. I think that dispelling such belief is part of the intent of this thread.

I hope this does not give more of a headache, but the issue has to be resolved.

Thanks, Mike

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Trying to delete email notice. You can delete this response.

[abctoo]

Many questions over the past years have been asked in this thread about what is Jackie Robinson's first issue.

Below is a scan of the 1946 Parade Sportive newspaper insert picturing Jackie Robinson with the Montreal Royals, the minor league team he reported to after his historic meeting with Branch Rickey. Though it is printed on thin paper and not cardboard stock, among those who know what it is, I doubt if many would turn it down.




P.S. At the end of my Post #269 of yesterday, I sought pictures of certain perforated two-sided cards often attributed to Bond Bread. I have completed reconstructing the first of two sheets of 24 cards and need the information sought to finish. Again, I thank member Hartford20 for his reply in Post #271. Anyone who would contribute such information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Mike

[tim]

Here are the four Sport Star Subject boxes. They are clearly marked as series 1 through 4, each containing 12 cards. 4 boxes x 12 cards = 48 cards. 48 cards is the number of round-cornered cards.

[abctoo]

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Five (Working)

5. Perforated printed two-sided cards with Sports, Hollywood and Cowboys pictured.

UPDATE

My last post on the perforated dual sided cards was Post #269 on June 10, 2020 above. Again, I have reconstruct one of the two sheet of 24 cards in this set and am working on the other. Each sheet has one adjoining left half and right half of a back that when read together states: “46 / TRADING CARDS / ASSORTED SUBJECTS / SPORTS . HOLLYWOOD. COWBOYS / AN ELGEE PRODUCT No. 4575”. The description is sort of a misnomer. Each sheet of 24 cards is printed on both sides with 46 pictures (subjects) and two backs, so that together, the two sheets have 92 pictures (subjects) and 4 backs.

Many simply identify these cards by the printed name of the baseball player or movie star and indicate the back as a “Western” without providing any illustration. That's an easy way and misses the fact that the unlabeled pictures include John Wayne, Randolph Scott, Genie Autry, Hopalong Cassidy and other top stars, who at the time the cards were issued were becoming more popular and more readily identifiable by just an unlabeled picture, than the named person on the other side. I have identified many of the Cowboy (Western) pictures from both sheets as coming from publicity stills of some of the top grossing Cowboy movies of the era. The unlabeled cowboy pictures on the cards can be of the entire publicity still or cropped from it, and show the cowboy pictured in the same pose and cloths as on the stills.

Most of the unlabeled cowboy pictures are from 1945-1947 movies, except at least three from “Red River” that was filmed in 1946, copyrighted in 1947, and released on September 30, 1948. Before the initial 1947 scheduled release of “Red River,” Howard Hughes sued “Red River” producer Howard Hawks over copyright infringement. That and additional editing delayed the actual release until 1948. It is possible that the publicity stills from which the cards are based were available in 1947 for those who wanted to license the use of “Red River” images, but it is still uncertain if 1947, rather than 1948, was the actual date of issue of these cards. A smart set manufacturer would want the latest in his set to drive sales, with first printings a trial to see how big the demand. The fact that these cards are not readily available suggests that a second, third or subsequent printing was not made. The problems with wide circulation of and demand for the cards includes picturing John Wayne (at least twice) before the public saw his performance in “Red River.” John Ford, who worked with Wayne on many films including Stagecoach (1939), was so impressed with Wayne's “Red River” performance that he is reported to have said, "I didn’t know the big son of a bitch could act!"

To date this set and complete reconstruction of the second sheet, I need identification and scans of the opposite sides of cards for which I currently cannot identify. I have no pictures. Below are such cards. These pictures may include both the front and back of a card, but I have not yet been able to associate the two together. Any help will be appreciated.



I've changed the scan from original post as I obtained some of the information the original sought and that is explained in the next post.

Thank you,

Mike


Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[abctoo]

Been able to identify the backs of some cards listed in previous post so removed them from the scan there to avoid any confusion. Now have the backs of the Roy Rogers & Katherine Hepburn adjoining pair and the Gary Grant and Claudette Colbert cards previously pictured there. In fact, these four cards align up as Colbert, Rogers, Hepburn and Grant, for the full four card width of the sheet. The Wallace Beery (Cowboy) card is matched with Phil Rizzuto on the other side -- the same Phil Rizzuto picture used on the other sheet but that one has Lana Turner on the other side. Still need info on the others listed above. Thanks, Mike

[abctoo]

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos with like and similar pictures.

It seems we have come to an impasse in this thread that many readers would like to get resolved. In an effort to do so, I am going to simply list the cards at issue that have been called “Bond Bread” cards regardless of whether Bond Bread issued them or not. I am listing cards that are known to actually exist regardless of when they were issued. I am not asking the question of why anyone would have made them, only if anyone disputes that any of them have not been in existence for at least thirty years (time in which many of them have been mislabeled by grading services).

The list also does not differentiate in the quality of the printing processes used between the sets listed, particularly as to the intensity of the inking, centering or individual printing flaws that may appear on cards with the same picture in one set but not in another.

My more than 10 years of publishing a newspaper and other involvement in the printing business has taught me that printing is neither a precise nor instantaneous process. A press run takes some time to complete the transfer of the images from a printing plate to quantity of paper stock being used. One function of a pressman is to add ink as it is used up and to continually adjust the ink flow to keep the printed images within a tolerable range of appearance. Two images printed one after the other may look alike, but images from other parts of the press run could appear very different with over or under inking.

Likewise, with centering, the trimming of uncut sheets is not a precise process. We know that these cards vary a little bit in size, particularly as to their widths. The cards were printed on uncut sheets one card next to another without any borders in between. That was to be able to print more cards on a single sheet (and thus save money) – just like airlines do when moving seats closer together so they can squeeze an extra row into an airplane. Without a border between cards, no “float” is available to allow the entire image of a single picture to always appear. Many of these cards have a small part of another card at one or two adjoining sides. Attempting to distinguish a card of one set from another by whether the placement of an image is closer to one edge of the card than on another card with the same picture is not fruitful. That's merely a question of centering – one that card grading services love to address. And in so doing, prices for “pack fresh” cards dramatically differ. PSA may grade an off-center “pack fresh” card with perfect corners as PSA 8 (OC), while give a higher grade to a card that is not so pristine. And of course, the marketplace buys by the grade given, and not for the actual condition of the card.

As to printing flaws, these can be temporary, like when a foreign object (such as a tiny bit of paper that came off the cardstock) lodges on the printing plate. It will leave a “spot” on the next few images until it is dislodged (by the press or “wiped away” by the pressman). If a press is stopped, ink can run onto the plate and partially dry. That would be pickup up as lines of ink until all that ink was transferred or removed by the pressman. Printing flaws can be more permanent. As the die cuts in a printing plate wear, flaws unique to the individual die cut begin to appear. As the press run continues, the wear may continue to degrade the cut until it may have to be replaced.

The sets that have been called “Bond Bread” card sets are:

1. Set of 48 Homogenized Bond Bread cards inserted individually into bread packages in 1947-1948, single sided, printed on white cardstock with “rounded” corners.

2. Set of 48 issued in four boxes of 12 (Series 1-4) labeled “Sport Star Subjects,” single sided, printed on white cardstock with “rounded” corners. While not the same set as the 48 Homogenized Bond Bread package inserts, the cards appear identical.

3. Set of 48 issued in four boxes of 12 (Series 1-4) labeled “Sport Star Subjects,” single sided, printed on white cardstock with “square” corners. While not the 48 Homogenized Bond Bread package inserts, except for the square corners, the cards appear identical.

4. Set of 48 issued in four boxes of 12 (Series 1-4) labeled “Screen Star Subjects,” single sided, printed on white cardstock with “rounded” corners.

5. Set of 48 issued in four boxes of 12 (Series 1-4) labeled “Screen Star Subjects,” single sided, printed on white cardstock with “square” corners.

6. Set of 48 Page's Pittsburgh Milk Co. cards. These are identical to the Bond Bread package inserts, with “rounded” corners, but are rubberstamped on the back in either purple or black ink: “PAGE'S / PITTSBURGH MILK CO. / The Sweetest Milk Ever Sold”.

7. Set of unknown size London Dry Beverages cards. These are identical pictures to Bond Bread package inserts, except have “square” corners. They are rubberstamped on the back: “Compliments of / LONDON DRY / TRADE MARK REGISTERED / The Topper of all Drinks (with logo in between) / BEVERAGES.”

8. The “Festberg” find, with the same pictures as 24 of the 48 Bond Bread package insert cards, printed on one side of a card stock with at least the other side uniformly toned in brown, the degree of toning can vary from card to card. On some cards, there is a trace of a much darker brown mold running up an edge from the back towards the front of the card. The cards have “square” corners, and though the same approximate size as the Bond Bread package insert and “Sport Star Subjects” sets, they have a much greater variance in width.

9. Set of 13 Bond Bread special Jackie Robinson cards, issued from 1947 to at least 1949. The first was distributed directly by Bond Bread in 1947 to some neighborhoods along with two slices of bread and by stores that sold Bond Bread. Subsequent issues were available from stores selling bond bread, including some from special displays with cards available.

10. Set of 48 perforated, dual-sided cards issued in Two Sheets of 24. Twenty-two of the cards on each sheet have pictures on front and back, including some of the pictures of baseball players on Homogenized Bond Bread package inserts. Each sheet also has two adjoining printed backs that when read together say: “46 / TRADING CARDS / ASSORTED SUBJECTS / SPORTS . HOLLYWOOD. COWBOYS / AN ELGEE PRODUCT No. 4575.” The "46" refers to the combined number of pictures (subjects) on both sides of each sheet, not the number of cards. In fact, there are 92 pictures (subjects) plus four backs (total 96 printed sides) that make up the 48 cards in the set. [I have adjoining backs each with a picture of one cowboy on the other side, but would appreciate scans of the other two cards with printed backs, one pictures two cowboys and the other pictures three cowboys.] At least 6 of the same baseball player pictures appear on the front of each sheet, but the backs are different. Of special note is that both the Jackie Robinson and Johnny Mize cards appear twice: Jackie Robinson with James Cagney and another Jackie Robinson with Western Back (SCG graded one of these); and Johnny Mize with Bob Hope and another Johnny Mize with Western Back (SCG graded one of these). I would appreciate a scan of either of the Robinson or Mize cards that have a Western back.

11. Set of unknown quantity of Cowboy (Western) Cards, including the cowboys pictured in the 48 perforated, dual-sided card set, printed on one side of white cardstock with “square” corners, the same size as the “square” corner versions of the “Sport Star Subjects” and “Screen Star Subjects” sets. The set has more Cowboy cards than the perforated dual-sided set pictures. While still unknown, this Cowboy set could have also been issued in boxes like the “Sport Star Subjects” and “Screen Star Subjects” sets, and may exist with “rounded” corners.

12. The so-called “Bond Bread Exhibits” as named by various grading services. These are slightly shorter than regular Exhibits issued by ESCO. Other than a similarity of pictures with the Bond Bread package inserts, these cards have nothing to do with Bond Bread. As is obvious from the many different sets with the same pictures, none of these set manufacturers had an exclusive license for use of the pictures. Rather, like the pictures used in the Team Photo Packs sold in the ballparks, they were just one of many manufacturers licensing some of the same pictures. The PSA Registry says these “Bond Bread Exhibits” come in two different sizes, 3-3/8” by 5-3/8” and 3” by 5”.

13. Exhibits (Exhibit Supply Co., ESCO). Exhibits picturing the same images of baseball players, movie stars and cowboys were issued by ESCO for sale in vending machines. In some cases, a variety of the same pictures were issued over the years, including in a variety of colors. These cards often have “PRINTED IN U.S.A.” or “MADE IN U.S.A.” at the bottom and though occasionally mislabeled as “Bond Bread” cards, they have no association with Bond Bread.

14. Pictures printed on one side of 6 5/8 x 9 inch thin paper stock (sometimes identified as from 6½ to 7 x 8½ to 9¼ inches). These are often mislabeled as “Bond Bread Premiums.” The paper can be found folded. More white space appears at top and bottom of a picture than at its sides. These may be from Printed Team or Multisport Packs. Pictures of baseball players and other sport activists than those in the 48 of the Bond Bread package insert set are also part of this set, which is of unknown size.

15. 1975 Sports Hobbyist Collector's Edition of 80 cards, contains three cards with the same player pictures as the Bond Bread package insert set. The three Sports Hobbyist cards have numbers printed on their fronts: #SH137 Ralph Kiner, #SH144 Vern Stephens and #SH145 Bobby Doerr.. The three are usually found with blank backs, but some may have an advertisement for The Sports Hobbyist printed on the back. The cards are 3x5, though some say 3 x 5½.

I have not addressed clearly distinguishable sets that have cards with the same pictures -- like the 1947 W602 Sports Exchange Miniatures Series 3 Andy Pafko card (a cropped picture of the one shown in the Bond Bread package insert set) and the various 1948 Blue Tint R346s -- as others do not have seem to have any difficulty distinguishing them from Bond Bread cards. However, if I missed a card or set that gets misattributed as Bond Bread, let us all know so it can be added to the list.

Thank you,

Mike

P.S. Is there an on-line catalog out there that will actually start distinguishing these sets?


Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by griffon512

Maybe I missed it in the novella, but it is unclear to me how you are distinguishing "Sport Star Subjects" from "Bond Bread." Please explain it clearly so a layman could make the distinction if analyzing the two different sets, or maybe someone else can if there is validity to it. If there is not a clear distinction in appearance than the presumption you are making below is just based on how packaging differences are likely to impact the condition of the cards, rather than other objective data.

"Most cards with white-backs and rounded corners attributed as 'Bond Bread' cards in a grade of 'Ex' or better apparently come from the 'Sport Star Subjects' set, not Bond Bread packages."

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos with like and similar pictures.

Distinguishing the Bond Bread package inserts from “Sport Star Subjects” cards

An easy method exists for telling apart many of the Bond Bread package insert cards from cards in the “Sport Star Subjects” set, but it does not work for distinguishing all cards from these two sets.

People who actually obtained Bond Bread cards from bread packages, and those who purchased such cards directly from them, have said the backs are white and without any bread stains. That tells only half the story. While there are few bread stains on any of the Bond Bread package inserts, all were affected by being next to the bread. My original bond bread cards and those I have seen, as well as the scans of all of cards for which there is direct evidence that they were actually obtained from Bond Bread packages, show a less bright white back than the 'Sport Star Subjects” cards in better grades. I cannot say what is the impact on the brightness of the backs of “Sport Star Subjects' cards that have worn down to a lower grade.



All cards could be told apart between the two sets by comparing pictures that clearly show the details of the die cuts used in the "Sport Star Subjects" set against pictures that clearly show the details of some of the die cuts from the original Bond Bread insert set. That would identify any individual die cut flaws specific to the "Sport Star Subjects" not appearing on the die cuts used to print the Bond Bread set. To do so is more than a one person job and would require the help of others reading this thread.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[abctoo]

Here are better comparative images of the backs of cards similar to the 1947 Bond Bread package inserts. I've added a brown toned Festberg card back to show its difference from the two different set versions of the white backs to avoid any confusion.



Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[Exhibitman]

I came across this image in my file and thought it would be helpful:



If anyone has one I would be interested in acquiring it.

[abctoo]

As you know, I've been working on reconstructing the two 24-card sheets of the perforated dual side printed set that contains some of the same pictures of the baseball players of the Bond Bread package insert set and of the movie stars in the Screen Star Subjects set. Below are pictures of one side of various cards that I have not yet associated to the specific picture that appears on the other side. Actually I could be picturing both sides but don't know which picture goes with which. These scans are an update of prior postings and have added text for a clearer explanation. If anybody has any information, or better yet, can provide a scan of both sides of any of these cards, it sure would help. Thanks again. Mike








Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[Exhibitman]

Anyone have any perforated examples of boxers besides Louis?

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

Everything that was interesting about this topic can be found in the thread above. Staying away from round/cropped corners is everyone's safest bet

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

Everything that was interesting about this topic can be found in the thread above. Staying away from round/cropped corners is everyone's safest bet

The referenced thread and those threads cited in it provide the extensive detailed work of net54 member CharleyBrown and others into understanding and dating the 13 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson giveaway cards going back for several years.

In fact, Charley Brown still has not stopped his continuing research. Last week I received a message from a member asking about those 13 cards, and naturally I responded by referring him to CharleyBrown's thread. The recipient replied by identifying himself as CharleyBrown -- still looking for more information. He will go to no end to date those 13 cards and is unafraid of the consequences.

For at least 30 years prior to his efforts, the entire 13 card set was believed to have been issued in 1947, Robinson's rookie year in Major league Baseball. It had been discovered that one of the cards in the set came from an ACME Newservices Photo taken in 1949, thus opening up the question when each of the 13 cards was issued.

In looking at CharleyBrown's thread again since his message, I found an outdated link to Robert Edwards Spring 2012 auction with Lot 497, six of the first card from the set (the Jackie Robinson, Portrait, Facsimile Autograph card). Here is an updated weblink to that auction listing: https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...psa-collection and a scan of the lot.



That auction lot is important because it provides the story of how the original owner of those cards, a nine year old back in 1947, obtained a quantity of this first card from a Bond Bread driver delivering them to a store for the giveaway that Bond Bread's 1947 newspaper advertising promised. That and the newspaper advertising establish that at least one card of the set was issued in 1947.

What has caused many people confusion about the dating of those cards is that several cards are enhanced or modified versions of the original pictures on which they are based. For example:



This is the so-called “Bat Follow, White Sleeves” card. The original photo, from International News Photos, was taken after Branch Rickey signed Jackie Robinson in August 1946 and pictures Robinson in his Montreal Royals minor league team jersey. The picture printed on the card was modified to change the team name on the jersey from Montreal to Dodgers, to remove the minor league team colors from the jersey to conform with Dodger jersey colors, and to make Robinson's face more distinguishable. The “Portrait, Glove in Air” card is likewise a modified photograph of Robinson in his Montreal jersey. Other pictures shown on some of the cards in the set also have minor modifications.

Since the discovery that a 1949 photo was used on one of the cards in the set, the question has remained about several of these cards as to the dates of issue (i.e., are they a rookie card or not?). Most cards of this set have been selling for four figures for years and are now approaching five figures.

Original work Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the original work of others.

[abctoo]

A collector of film star cards has confirmed the "Screen Star Subjects" set with "rounded corners" comes in both the 1st printing boxes (with a clear "W.S. / N.Y." printed on back) and the 2nd printing boxes (with the "W.S. / N.Y. obliterated). It appears the "Sport Star Subjects" with "rounded corners" may be in similar 1st and 2nd printing boxes.



This set is listed in Post 283 above as "4. Set of 48 issued in four boxes of 12 (Series 1-4) labeled “Screen Star Subjects,” single sided, printed on white cardstock with “rounded” corners."


Original work Copyright 2020, by Michael Fired, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the original work of others.

[phikappapsi]

Mike - Maybe I'm missing something here - but it appears all your efforts are basically finalizing themselves in an attempt to tell Ted and anyone else that physically removed rounded corner bond bread Jackie Robinson cards from packages of bond bread - that they in fact did not. (bold claim) and that all the rounded corner cards that have been identified as Bond Bread cards are in fact Sports star subject cards.

Am I missing something? or is that ultimately what you're trying to say (VERY long-winded-ly)

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

Mike - Maybe I'm missing something here - but it appears all your efforts are basically finalizing themselves in an attempt to tell Ted and anyone else that physically removed rounded corner bond bread Jackie Robinson cards from packages of bond bread - that they in fact did not. (bold claim) and that all the rounded corner cards that have been identified as Bond Bread cards are in fact Sports star subject cards.

Am I missing something? or is that ultimately what you're trying to say (VERY long-winded-ly)

Phikappapsi,

Do you deny the fact that two separate sets of 48 virtually identical cards with "white backs" and "rounded corners" have existed for more than 30 years? The sets I am referring to are: (1) the Bond Bread package insert set distributed one per bread package in 1947-48, and (2) the "Sport Star Subjects" set issued in four series of boxes of 12 different.

Why is it whenever I mention the two different sets, someone thinks I am criticizing Ted? I am not.

The thrust of Ted's initial issue in 2009 was to distinguish white back "rounded corner" cards of the Bond Bread package insert set from the "square corner," toned "brown back" cards of the Festberg find. At the time, many of the "brown back" cards were being identified by dealers and grading services alike as "1947 Bond Bread" package inserts when none of the "brown back" cards ever saw a Bond Bread package. Ted provided an easy way to distinguish the two sets by saying the Bond Bread package insert cards had white backs and rounded corners, and the Festberg cards had toned brown backs and square corners.

With the potential of more than 3,000 cards of each player in the Festberg find reentering the market after their initial release in the 1980s, Ted's 2009 distinction alone prevented many from paying outrageous prices for a higher grade Jackie Robinson "rookie" card than the price of an actual card that had come from a Bond Bread package.

Since Ted's initial post in 2009, most people who did not get caught in the trap being foisted in the marketplace about the cards of the Festberg find owe Ted a great deal of thanks for distinguishing between the two sets.

But, what started out as an excellent way to tell Bond Bread package insert apart from the Festberg find (white back & rounded corners vs. toned back & square corners) does not apply to distinguishing the Bond Bread package insert cards from the "Sport Star Subjects" cards.

A solution to the problem of distinguishing Bond Bread inserts from "Sport Star Subjects" cards is what I am trying to provide. The cards of both sets appear on their face to be virtually identical. That is not criticism of Ted. In fact I believe that Ted started this thread with the intent of separating all of the Bond Bread lookalikes from actual Bond Bread package inserts.

If one is only going to read my stuff thinking I am criticizing Ted, then one will miss the point and be caught in another misidentification trap in the marketplace.

Some people may not like what I write and others may have interests in protecting the value of misattributed cards they bought. But please, let us all get past personal issues and try to do what Ted intended -- show the differences between actual Bond Bread package inserts and its "impostors."

Original work Copyright 2020 by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the original work of others.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Anyone have any perforated examples of boxers besides Louis?

In addition to the Joe Louis card you posted (Hopalong Cassidy is the cowboy pictured on the other side), I think the only other boxer in this perforated dual sided set is Marcel Cerdan with Joan Crawford on the other side. Sorry about the scan below, it's the best image of the Cerdan/Crawford card I have been able to reconstruct.



If anyone has any information about the other perforated dual sided cards I sought yesterday (July 3, 2020) in Post 287 above, your help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike


Original work Copyright 2020 by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the work of others.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by joeadcock

Pat.....guess you can call this an imposter. I dont recall the name of this set. It has the same front of Aaron Robinson one side(as one of the cards you have) and an actor(recognize the face but dont know actor's name) on other side of the card. Presumably same year.

In response to your Post #54 above (12-09-2013), the actor is Dane Clark as pictured in "Deep Valley" (released in 1947).

I sure would appreciate any help anyone can provide with the fronts and the backs of this two-sided set that I cannot match together. See Post #287 (07-03-2020) above.


Original work Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the works of others.

[toledo_mudhen]

Interesting thread - Quick search turns up this complete set of Robinson issues - will these seriously go for $40K+

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Jackie...9ba761d58a1103

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Interesting thread - Quick search turns up this complete set of Robinson issues - will these seriously go for $40K+

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Jackie...9ba761d58a1103

The first card pictured in the eBay lot (which PSA labeled as "Portrait, Facsimile Auto") is the first card Bond Bread issued in this set. It's a 1947 Jackie Robinson card issued during his first year of playing in the Major Leagues. That card was widely distributed and is now more available in higher grades than any other card in the set. The rest of the cards in the set were issued from 1947 to 1949, so many are not Jackie Robinson's "rookie" cards.

The eBay listing of this "Portrait, Facsimile Auto" card shows it has been graded a PR 1 (as are most of the cards offered in this set), the lowest grade PSA gives. Only a very few single high grade cards from this set have sold in the low 5 figure range, as have sets.

Over the past year or so, depending on demand, individual cards from this set that were graded poor have brought between $550 and $2,500 each. With all 13 different cards of the set being offered in the eBay lot, even at $1,000 a card, that's Thirteen Grand.

The eBay lot is a "Buy It Now" listing at $42,000, with a "Make Offer" option. Unless money is of no concern to a potential buyer, anyone who is serious about buying the lot would be foolish not to make an offer.

The demand for Jackie Robinson "rookie" cards by investors in "rookie" cards has not only driven up their prices, but permitted dealers and grading card services to misdescribe and wrongly date many of his post-war cards from the 1940s.

Such misdescription is an ongoing issue that Ted Zanidakis widely opened up in starting this thread in 2009. The Festberg find cards (which included over 3,000 Jackie Robinson cards) were coming on the market graded as "1947 Bond Bread" cards when they never saw a Bond Bread package. Now, more than 10 years later, would those Festberg "rookie" cards, all in higher grades, be worth $1,000 per card? Perhaps some investor is willing to spend real money on the Robinson cards of the Festberg find as 3,000 cards at $1,000 each is $3,000,000?

Original work Copyright 2020 by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521. No claim to the original work of others. Your fair comment and criticisms are welcomed.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by abctoo

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos with like and similar pictures.

Distinguishing the Bond Bread package inserts from “Sport Star Subjects” cards

An easy method exists for telling apart many of the Bond Bread package insert cards from cards in the “Sport Star Subjects” set, but it does not work for distinguishing all cards from these two sets.

People who actually obtained Bond Bread cards from bread packages, and those who purchased such cards directly from them, have said the backs are white and without any bread stains. That tells only half the story. While there are few bread stains on any of the Bond Bread package inserts, all were affected by being next to the bread. My original bond bread cards and those I have seen, as well as the scans of all of cards for which there is direct evidence that they were actually obtained from Bond Bread packages, show a less bright white back than the 'Sport Star Subjects” cards in better grades. I cannot say what is the impact on the brightness of the backs of “Sport Star Subjects' cards that have worn down to a lower grade.



All cards could be told apart between the two sets by comparing pictures that clearly show the details of the die cuts used in the "Sport Star Subjects" set against pictures that clearly show the details of some of the die cuts from the original Bond Bread insert set. That would identify any individual die cut flaws specific to the "Sport Star Subjects" not appearing on the die cuts used to print the Bond Bread set. To do so is more than a one person job and would require the help of others reading this thread.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

I stated (some time ago) that I was not going to continue participating in this thread, anymore. But, after reviewing this particular post, I cannot let this stand.
This is mis-leading information....."FAKE NEWS" if you will.

Shown below are examples from my 1947 BOND BREAD set. As most of you know I collected these cards in the Summer/Fall of 1947. I have 44 cards (just the
Baseball subjects). I chose as examples to display the major Rookie cards. The backs of 42 cards in my set are clear WHITE (as shown). Two of the cards in my
set (Yogi Berra and Larry Jansen) exhibit traces of black/gray spotting. I recall that I up-graded my original Berra card. And, I recall purchasing the Jansen card
in the early 1980's, since it was not in my original collection.






This Berra and Jansen (with back stains) were not originally in my collection




The point of this response is to contradict the above QUOTED myth that the bread in the BOND BREAD packages stained the backs of these cards.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I stated (some time ago) that I was not going to continue participating in this thread, anymore. But, after reviewing this particular post, I cannot let this stand.
This is mis-leading information....."FAKE NEWS" if you will.

Shown below are examples from my 1947 BOND BREAD set. As most of you know I collected these cards in the Summer/Fall of 1947. I have 44 cards (just the
Baseball subjects). I chose as examples to display the major Rookie cards. The backs of 42 cards in my set are clear WHITE (as shown). Two of the cards in my
set (Yogi Berra and Larry Jansen) exhibit traces of black/gray spotting. I recall that I up-graded my original Berra card. And, I recall purchasing the Jansen card
in the early 1980's, since it was not in my original collection.


The point of this response is to contradict the above QUOTED myth that the bread in the BOND BREAD packages stained the backs of these cards.

TED Z

Ted, You misread what I wrote and only got half of the story. You cannot go around telling people that only genuine Bond Bread cards have rounded corners and white backs and ignore the rounded corner "Sport Star Subjects" set that also has white backs and rounded corners. I did not say the Bread stained the backs of the Bond Bread insert cards.

Read what I wrote again: "While there are few bread stains on any of the Bond Bread package inserts, all were affected by being next to the bread." To me that specifically says that most Bond Bread cards had no stains from the bread . . . but like any piece of paper next to bread, the bread can take away some of the brightness of the white cardstock. That's not a stain. It's still white, but not as glossy.

I know you have original cards and the few original cards I have are not in as good a grade as your many cards, so my photos were not good. Look at your photos of the backs of genuine Bond Bread cards you posted in 2009 in Posts nos. 8 and 11 of this thread.

Please help us all out by posting a scan of the back of a genuine Bond Bread insert next to the back of a genuine "Sport Star Subjects" card. We all would like to see it.

[CharleyBrown]

Hey Michael. I appreciate the shout out. Will send you a private message response later tonight. I'm going to post this in my original thread, but as Michael mentioned, I've been doing more research on the set of 13 Bond Bread series. I'm not sure if this will post properly, but here's a newspaper article from July 1947. This article shows that the original Facsimile card was distributed for free to the majority of Black families in Harlem, NY prior to July 1947. In July 1947, it was distributed in promo packages with 2 slices of bread. ANYBODY that wrote to General Baking / Bond Bread was given for free a copy of the card. While I am still researching, this article also indicates that other "picture cards", which I now believe to be the other six attributed to 1947 were distributed at newsstands, candy stores, ice cream stands, etc. At the end of the article, it states clearly that this issue was not limited to NY, but rather distributed in other cities with large Black communities, including but not limited to Philadelphia, Washington DC, Baltimore and Detroit. This covers essentially all the MLB cities in 1947, indicating that this issue was not regional as it was once believed to be.