TRIVIA.....Will history be repeated ? ?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, that's the liberal question, of course; it would seem many lefties can't imagine anyone not voting for Obama but for the color of his skin. I consider such a belief to simply being stage 2 of dealing with loss: anger.

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Posted By: John K

Jeff, if Hoover looses, don't be sad; you'll always have the Klan.

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Posted By: paulstratton

Jeff,

For a life long Dem you sure have come around nicely.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, smart conclusion: if I vote for Obama I'm brilliant; if I don't, I'm a racist. And you wonder why Obama's chances are slipping away by the minute..with more and more people every day thinking that he and his party are arrogant. Look at the bright side: you know he's getting another book deal after the election.

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Posted By: Tim

I think Obama is a bright person. Unfortunately he and I have different views of what the goverments role should be.

In the Bill O'Rielly interview his statements about income redistribution bothered me.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

BIll O'Reilly is a horse's patootie. I have never seen such a self serving interview in my life.

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Posted By: John K

Jeff, your invective gives you away as a racist: Obama is arrogant, another variation on the black-guy-doesn't-know-his-place Jim Crow jive. Another variation we've seen is he's the One, a celebrity, uppity, the waves will part. How dare he! Shame on your greedy old party.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, you're hilarious, seriously. "Arrogant" is now a racist codeword! I suppose "McCain" is one as well!!! Believe it or not, many Hilary supporters have claimed Obama is arrogant -- I guess they're racist bastards too.

And when did liberals get so damn angry and hateful? What about peace, love and understanding?

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

Sarah Palin is the first candiate on both Republican & Democrat tickets, for either President or VP, since Theodore Roosevelt - who knows how to field dress a moose.

I found that one funny.

Didn't read the whole thread so not sure if this was already posted

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Posted By: Tim

"And when did liberals get so damn angry and hateful? What about peace, love and understanding?"

Great question!

I'm not a defender of Bill O'Rielly but his interview was fair. I know at times he cut Obama of or talked over him, but he was only given 30 minutes to interview him and tried to extract as many real answers from him as he could.

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Posted By: David Goff

I have no idea yet of who I will vote for in November. I was a Republican for 15 yrs and just turned to the Democratic side last year. I like McCain and I like Obama. I am leaning towards Obama due to the fact that McCain picked Palin. She SCARES me very much! I dont know if anyone watched the interview with Charlie Gibson last week, but I dont care what you say, that woman is not ready to lead our country. And for that reason, I will not vote for McCain.

I dont know how many on the board remember the JFK election, but my mother said that Obama reminded her of him. Just the way he presented himself while talking to crowds. She is very excited about him. I would like to know if anyone else feel that way as well.

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Posted By: David Goff

Rhys..Barry

I have been looking for that Perot/Stockdale SNL skit for years and can not find it. That was one of the funniest skits on SNL of all-time...I still laugh just thinking about.

Stockdale--I AM HUNGRY!!

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Posted By: Tim

"I dont know how many on the board remember the JFK election, but my mother said that Obama reminded her of him. Just the way he presented himself while talking to crowds. She is very excited about him. I would like to know if anyone else feel that way as well."

David-

I hear a lot of people say things on both sides like your mothers comment. People love Obama for his presentation, or like Pahlin because she's more like them than the Washington elite. It's how we pick our president and that's really a shame.

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Posted By: jdrum

Obama extremely impressive, charismatic, etc. But I am not electing an orator. Jury is still out for me. I will admit the VP selection of the Repubs has only heightened my level of cynicism.

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Posted By: Tim

David-

Here's your Stockton video.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=23764953

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Posted By: David Goff

Awesome!!! Thanks Tim..I guess I didn't look hard enough LOL

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Posted By: Jason

The only good thing about this thread was the memory of SNL skits it elicited from me. Thanks for that.

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Posted By: John K

David, I was a freshman in college when JFK was shot. The country loved him and has never recovered from his loss (also RFK and MLK Jr.). JFK is still one of my heroes. Obama recalls him very much.
Why is the South Republican? Because JFK, RFK, and LBJ fought for racial equality. It's hard for the Dems to win when they have to spot the GOP the South.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Yeah, Florida has been deciding for awhile but last time I checked, there are a lot more important states in the North, Midwest and West. That also makes it sound like everyone in the South is racist.

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Posted By: John K

Not EVERYONE in the South. Reductio ad absurdum, eh Jeff.

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Posted By: JimB

"For me it's McCain....he is an American hero "
What makes him any more of an American hero than Obama? As editor of the Harvard Law Review, Obama could have made millions at a fancy New York law firm. Instead he chose to dedicate himself to work for poor and disadvantaged Americans. He sacrificed his own gain for the welfare of his countrymen and women. That is a real American hero. I am so tired of the rhetoric that implicitly claims that the only way to be patriotic or an American hero is through military service. To my mind, the greatest patriots during the Vietnam War were the protesters here who helped bring it to an end and saved countless American lives. McCain had the unfortunate coincidence of being a POW for five years. It probably damaged him psychologically, but it does NOT qualify him to be president. In fact, given that he has supported torture of American held POWs, I think his integrity is highly questionable. He has been a rubber stamp for the Bush agenda, voting with him over 90% of the time over the last 7 1/2 years. If we want four more years of America headed into the toilet both internationally and domestically, then McCain is the guy. But if we want to turn this recent disaster of the Bush failures around, we need to elect Obama.

Leon, this is not directed at you, my friend. Your comment just inspired me.
JimB

Edited to add "NOT". Just an oversight.

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Posted By: JimB

P.S.
I am headed for 36 hours of planes and airports in a little while, so I may not be able to respond promptly.
JimB

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Posted By: leon

First and foremost you are a friend. I think Obama is a very good guy and could make a good President. That being said (as the saying goes)….. I assume by you referring to him (McCain) as being a prisoner “does” qualify him to be president, you were mistaking and merely having a subliminal reality awakening? If that is not the case and you in fact intended to say “doesn’t” qualify him to be President, then I agree with you; It doesn't. It is his character and what I have seen and read so far that has qualified him, to me…..I haven’t looked into the divorce issue he had so don’t want to go there….and I might not want to go there anyway, but if we are looking at integrity, then I guess that has to be deliberated, if not only to decide to allow it or not. When you say he has supported the torture of American POW’s why do I get the feeling you are taking that statement out of context, or not giving the other side. Here is what McCain said:

“ When we passed the Military Commissions Act, we said that the C.I.A. should have the ability to use additional techniques,” Mr. McCain told reporters Friday in Oshkosh, Wis. “None of those techniques would entail violating the Detainee Treatment Act, which said that cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment are prohibited.”

I saw him quoted many times as saying he is against waterboarding but I don’t blame him for not voting to pass the legislation. As long as the Detainee Treatment Act, which is sited above isn’t violated, then I am ok with what he did as it's the law which PREVENTS cruel and inhumane acts. Every single argument can have another one against it or for it, for either candidate. That is why I said to myself……....Myself- when I analyze these 2 candidates, with everything I know right now, who do I want to lead me, Obama or McCain?…It is McCain( at least so far)...I don't have to fully play my hand until the day to vote ....….have a safe trip…..

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Hey Jerks,

Chet Brewer's full name was Chester Arthur Brewer.

Oscar Charleston's middle name was McKinley, presumably after the later assassinated president. Charleston was born on October 14th, 1896. William McKinley was elected the 25th president of the United States on November 2nd, 1896.

This all comes full circle because in 1899, McKinley's vice-president Garret Hobart died in office from heart failure. This meant that McKinley would have a new vice-president for the 1900 election in which he was re-elected to a 2nd term. As we all know, McKinley was unable to complete his 2nd term as president to due his being assassinated in 1901. This, of course, meant the vice-president would become the president.

And that's how Sarah Palin became president of the United States.

-Ryan

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Posted By: JimB

Leon,
The great thing about this country is that good people can disagree on politics and still be friends. I would consider you a friend even if you voted for Attilla the Hun (almost as bad as Dubya ). Hopefully everybody here can discuss these issues without getting personal or too angry.
Jim
P.S. Thanks for pointing out the missing "NOT" in my post above. I just edited and changed it.

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Posted By: jdrum

I hope I never have the unfortunate coincidence of being a POW for five years. I do have the unfortunate coincidence of living in The South for the last 15 years.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, don't worry about your vote -- McCain has already won Texas. Move to NJ or NY quickly -- those are two states Obama's lead is slipping away as we speak; your vote will be more valuable there.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Wow--its a tough world out there. Have not written anything here for a while and have not thought too much about cards. The financial business is undergoing tremendous turmoil--don't want to talk about my company but its been brutal.

My two cents is that because of Palin I am a strong McCain supporter. I would have voted for McCain anyway but without a lot of enthusiasm. Palin makes me extremely enthused. I am a low tax, limited government, pro-life republican. I certainly am against any kind of animal cruelty and agree with what many of you say in this regard but I think human life is a larger issue and I think abortion is a tragedy. Don't want to impose my political views on anyone else but want to point out that there is a segment of the electorate that is very enthused about Gov. Palin and what she brings to the ticket.

Jim(Dav)

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Jim- sorry to hear about all the things that have gone on with your company, and don't want to bust your chops too hard under the circumstances, but...the thought of McCain dying and Palin becoming president is a more than frightening thought.

Sound bites and a pretty face are one thing; but leading the greatest country in the world demands a great arsenal of skills that she is lacking. Being pro-life and believing in creationism will not be sufficient.

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Posted By: Brian Martin

>believing in creationism will not be sufficient.


I didn't realize that the earth was only about 7,000 years old and that dinosaur bones were put in the earth by demons to shake the faith of man. At least that's what a coworker who believes in creationism told me.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry, I can think of a scarier thought: Obama being elected and staying for four years.

Oh and this: "Sound bites and a pretty face are one thing; but leading the greatest country in the world demands a great arsenal of skills that he is lacking."

I just removed the letter "s"--now we're talking about The One.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Sorry to disagree Jeff, but Obama serving four years is something I would embrace. He's a super smart guy who will be able to deal with big issues; I don't believe either McCain or Palin is his equal in that regard (and yes, he is not a perfect fit, I will concede that).

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"Barack Obama gets a rare tweak from CNN on his inability to perform off-script. While appearing at a campaign rally in Pueblo, Colorado, Obama made a joint appearance, not with Joe Biden or Senate candidate Mark Udall, but with a more critical member of his campaign — his Teleprompter. The Illinois senator used a teleprompter at both his Colorado events Monday — making for a particularly peculiar scene in Pueblo, where the prompter was set up in the middle of what is normally a rodeo ring."

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Posted By: Rhys

Jeff

You started out liking Obama and then changed your mind? I thought that once you went Barack you never go baaack. There goes my theory.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Sorry Barry--I believe Obama is less qualified than Palin to be president and the thought of a president Obama scares me a lot more than a president first.

Perhaps on raw intellect Obama is smarter, but Palin's instincts toward limited government, a strong US defense and presence, lower taxes and a culture of life are a lot more attractive to me than the higher taxes, increased role of government in daily life and cut and run defense policy that Obama and the left wing of the democratic party advocate. Obama has the most liberal voting record in the US Senate according to the non-partisan National Jourtal. Teddy is #2 and Biden #3. McCain is at the left wing of the reppublican party. Moderate republican over far left democrat--Barry if you are ever going to support a Republican now is the time.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Rhys, I think you used a code word in there.

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Posted By: Tim

Not a jab but a serious question.

For those of you that support Obama, are you OK with him taking money from you and giving it to someone who makes less because he believes its fair?

I understand raising taxes to generate more revenue for the treasury (if in fact that would work) but I don't agree with taking my money and giving it to someone else simply because they make less than me.

I also know that you don't pick a candidate based on just one issue but this one for me gets to the core of who Obama is and what he believes to be the role of goverment.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- I will never support a Republican, and now is as bad a time as ever, given what they have done to this country the last eight years. I'll take my chances with a liberal.

How are you holding up personally? You must have had a brutal week.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

What an interesting thread. I hope it's okay if I chime in.

I'll be voting Obama in the upcoming election, and I'll be doing so with more passion and enthusiasm than any Presidential election has ever stirred in me.

Why? Because Obama's positions mirror mine, in virtually every instance. I like his position on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and on foreign policy in general. I like his position on education, and how he wants to tie tax incentives for secondary education to community service (a plan that could save me a considerable amount of money when my kids are of college age). I agree with his philosophies on social issues, and support his desire to encourage more young people to become teachers. His tax plan is favorable to people in my income bracket, as well as in most others. And while he is a proponent of a strong defense and proper equipment for our troops, he seems to be less hawkish than his opponent. Equally importantly, his opponent is on record as being in favor of a military draft - something that is important to me, considering my oldest son will be 17 when the next presidential term ends. Plus, as an added bonus, Obama has the ability to inspire and mobilize millions of people, which he has demonstrated during his entire campaign - that is a skill I don't take lightly.

I also have to consider the potential Supreme Court appointees during the next term, and whether a candidate will make appointees that he feels are best for the country, as opposed to appointees that serve a political objective. During this campaign, each candidate has had to make precisely one appointment that has had to take into consideration the question of what is right vs, what is politically prudent - the selection of their running mate. In my mind, the right political move for Obama would have been to choose Clinton, and yet he chose Biden - someone with immense experience and foreign policy knowledge. To me, this shows he's making decisions that he feels are in the best interest of the country, as opposed to furthering his political agenda. His opponent, in my opinion, chose his running mate with the exact opposite goals in mind.

In my opinion, all the rest is just background noise that distracts people from the actual issues - I've often found myself distracted by it as well.

Just my opinion.

-Al

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Tim in a word, yes. I do however have a large issue with taking my middle class money and transferring it to the very wealthy, including many politicians.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Al- you said it better than I could. Now, is anybody listening?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes, some people are listening, Barry. Just not as many as last month, last week or yesterday. But more than tomorrow.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Tim, Peter,

Without getting specific or personal, Obama's tax plan would increase taxes on incomes over $250,000. This is the top 1.5% of national incomes. Do you really think that is "middle class"?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I know Jeff, he's losing support, and if he doesn't find a better way to get his message across, he will lose. That's the way it goes.

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Posted By: Tim

Al-

Though I disagree I respect all of what you had to say. You are making an informed decision based on the issues that are important to you.

I have a lot of respect for Obama but as I've stated before we just differ on to many issues for me to vote for him.

I understand the anger over the state of the economy and blaming the current administration, but I don't hear much from those that support Obama about what the Democratic congress has or hasn't done in the last two years to help. Do they not shoulder any responsibility?

I know this may sound silly to some of you but I would be more inclined to vote for Obama if there was a Republican controlled congress than to vote for him with the current congress and its leaders.

Edited to add:

Jim-

I know $250,000 is a lot of money to more people than not, but it's not as much as it used to be either. And like I stated I don't have so much a problem with the tax being raised and the money going to the goverment for its use, as I do the money being taken from me and given to someone else. I don't belive that someone that already doesn't pay any income tax, has goverment programs available to them, etc. should now in addition to that, be sent a check in the mail.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Jim, I was referring to my middle class income which is ,well, middle class certainly not $250,000.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, you bring up a good point about the tax increase issue -- though I assure you that 250K in NYC is a lot different than 250K in Idaho. That being said, Obama's anticipated massive increase in capital gains tax and other associated taxes hits everyone, not just those in the top tax brackets.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Obama's plan hits the upper bracket the hardest...McCain's plan will give the top 1-2% the same generous breaks as Bush did. That alone is reprehensible.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry, what is reprehensible is paying more than 50% of gross income to taxes. Which is what I'll be doing should The One win.

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Posted By: sagard

Four years of Obama would be great for the nation and give the Republicans a chance to regroup and get back to what they stand for. The country has survived the last eight years of egregious spending and Obama would not be worse. Obama has mentioned postponing the tax increases on the highest brackets if the economy is struggling, but wants to push through his tax cuts on all the other brackets.

The bottom line is that both parties are going to spend like drunken sailors. The Republicans are going to max spend on wars and national defense and spend only enough to get by on social services. The Dems are likely to do the opposite. Neither will address social security, medical care and energy.

I will vote for whose energy policy I prefer the most. I'm not impressed with "Drill Baby Drill" and I'm less impressed with the Dems who oppose it with no rational reasoning behind their position. To me there is only one reason not to drill and it has nothing to do with the Dems faux-environmental concerns.