What is next in 21st century card collecting

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Ted, with all due respect, you don't see the comments coming from the 'ungraded school of thought' because those comments are not directed at you, so evidently you don't read them. They are incessant.

Without digging in and scouring his posts, here's the first one I pulled up from Mr. Wakefield's vast lexicon of non-insults:

"But then what am I to expect with mindless, lemminglike following of the grading lunacy."

Even in this thread, it is stated that the concept of grading is "fundamentally wrong" and "nuts", and the people who use "cardpriceonthenetdotcomknucklehead" services are "ludicrous". And while it may have been meant as a tounge-in-cheek post, the intention, once again, was clear.

-Al

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Posted By: Cobby33

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

You are "definately" right (only seen that one spelled wrong 1000 times).

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

The way I see it ,you slabheads are overly sensitive. And you raw dudes are insensitive brutes. One thing for certain though - we are all ostensibly responsible adults with a strong penchant for spending large sums of money for little pieces of old cardboard with a picture of a dead guy on it. Many might deduce that we're all morons.

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Posted By: JimB

Frank said,

"1), but now also pay someone a fee each month so they can know what their card is worth... That seems ludicrous, too."

Frank,
Did you know they had price guides even in the age of dinausors? The difference is that the online sites record actual final sale prices rather than numbers thrown out by dealers that may have been dictated by their current inventories or other issues that raise conflicts of interest.

Other than being rude and offensive at every turn, you strike me as somebody who absolutely cannot or will not think outside of the 1975 box. Things change! Sometimes they change for the better. One example is price "guides" based on actual verifiable sales.
JimB

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Well we have a "consensus of 3".....that objectively understood the gist of Frank's post....unfortunately,
we are a minority on this board. Everyone else responding has taken it as a "jab" at the grading industry.



And, PAUL M.....let's reprise your latest remarks.....

"Fanatic

This would be a useful time to explain to your grandchildren the dangers of fanatic ideologies,
unwavering in their views of the world and unbending in the face ofoverwhelming logic to the
contrary. Explain to them that Grandpa has no interest in questioning his own value system
and is interested instead in only challenging the values of others."

Who are you to tell me anything regarding any member of my family. My oldest Grandchild is in his 1st
year in College and doing great. I have been his Father figure for most of his life since his Dad passed
away when he was a youngster. He is a great kid and is an "A" student in Engineering at the U of Maine.

YOU HAVE CROSSED THE LINE....with your above remarks....its bad enough that your negative language
is directed at me, but now you have expanded it to my Grandchildren and that is beyond the pale. You
are despicable....I do not want to hear from you again.

TED Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

Maybe we need to take a break here.

And there is a board rule that we should not talk about anyone's family, so I think Paul's post was inappropriate.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry, thanks; I was starting to lose it.

Jim makes a good point. The old price guides contained prices of Nm, Ex and VG and then when you went to a show everything was Nm in the dealers' eyes, even the dog-eared cards. The reason why the pricing sites make sense is that, like any market which contains buyers and sellers, you can learn the most recent sales prices -- which is the best indicator as to what a card is worth going forward. The pricing sites simply gather up that public info and put it into an easily navigated, one-stop-shopping site. The fact is, they are very helpful and have saved me big money thus far.

Cobby's point is one that I've made a hundred times: get beat for $1000 on a fake card just one time and you'll become a slabhead in no time -- presuming that you spend some serious money on cards. No one likes to get beat and the third party services are your best bet to avoid that (usually).

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Posted By: Cobby33

Whilst we did not take the initial post as a "jab" to the grading industry, we took it as a "jab" to those who prefer graded cards.

With statements like:

"We'll tell you what to collect, SGC and PSA will tell you what it is you've collected, and some cardpriceonthenetdotcomknucklehead can tell you what it's worth. Collecting on autopilot! With all the worries removed!! Like cruise control. Like that parallel parking system... like a mutual fund where the fund manager makes the decisions."

How could we not take it as a jab? The most important thing I leaned in my first college English class was to substitute the word "you" with "one." Here, that could have made all the difference, regardless, it seems clear that the initial post was suggesting that those who get their cards graded and/or subscribe to pricing periodicals/websites, are a bunch of sheep who could and should be led anywhere they're told. I don't think one would have to read too far into the initial post to acquire that understanding.

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Posted By: leon

Just so everyone on earth knows my biggest PET PEEVE with 0 tolerance is mentioning people's families. I have struck that paragraph from Paul's remarks. All of us are fair game....NO ONE'S family is. Thanks for your understanding. It is very rare that I edit a post except to resize scans. Mention anything about anyone's family and I will censor so fast it will make your head spin. This isn't personal either...it goes for everyone....thanks and sorry if I offended anyone.

edited to add I do note that Ted (hi Ted) did bring up his grandchildren first so there is a little mitigation there....we can talk about our own family...I won't stop that....but no one can talk about others families.....At least I do understand that Paul didn't really start that...but that board rule is very firm...I will always over compensate on it...

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Posted By: T206Collector

I was not bringing family members into the equation. I was suggesting Ted set a better, more open-minded example.

But since I obviously upset him, I will send him a personal e-mail apologizing.

[Edited to add, that I sent an apology by personal e-mail to Ted.]

Disagreements about valuing baseball card collections are not folly for making people feel that they have been personally attacked. I do not believe that I crossed the line in this regard, but I can understand how a reasonable interpretation of my remarks could be miscontstrued that way. And, for those offended, I do offer a sincere apology.

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Posted By: PC

Deja vu.

A rule is a rule, and Leon does a great job keeping order around here, but IMO Paul only responded to a hypothetical, and there was nothing directed personally at anyone's family.

If posts are going to be uniformly deleted because of people's heightened sensitivities to imaginary attacks, then this thread (and many others) wouldn't exist.

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Posted By: John

For the record, Leon I understand you cant catch them all. But I didn’t see Paul taking any shots at Ted’s family he was just trying to make a point.

In fact I seem to remember this thread where Daniel gave James parenting advice that was certainly harsher than anything Paul said to Ted.

“Doesn't bother you so much? That's great, no doubt your children will appreciate your devotion to freedom of speech were they to experience such defiling description. You'll be their absolute hero, no doubt!”

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1176390572/last-1176406078/moderating+on+the+board#bottom

Yet no edit or delete on that one…

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think references to a generic family or family members are different than actually calling out an inidividual's family member. Paul didn't mean anything insulting and Ted is, rightly so, sensitive about his family. Just a miscommunication in my opinion.

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Posted By: John

Agreed Jeff well said.

Handsome, smart and a baseball card collector Lichtman is the full package!

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Could you at least explain where that statement came in terms of the thread.


Edited to add: Its probably silly of me to ask that of you because in that particular thread I ended up in an ongoing series of private emails to you, in which you constantly misinterpreted who my posts were directed to....and I don't want to really have to go through each of those posts again to make them clearer.


I too, apologize, if I offended anyone's children or family.


Daniel

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ahh, but John, if only I could figure out that damn photoshop...I'd be deadly behind this computer.

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Posted By: John

Daniel I don’t have too, I have link to the entire thread....I wasn't going for a play by play of your morality/freedom of speech danger lecture with James here. I was just pointing out too Leon a gray area in which I though Paul got hammered on.

That’s all is that ok, with you?

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Posted By: E, Daniel

But parsing out quotes from long threads is not always an accurate representation of what was said.

Of course, no one needs to tell you anything, and I won't be starting.

Daniel

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Posted By: John

Daniel since once again it’s the E, Daniel show. You emailed me several times after you threw down in the thread, directly to James and I before it was locked explaining how I was not as worldly traveled or as enlightened as you. In which I politely told you to pound sand. Then you continued to email your drivel to me, then you emailed back saying you were directing those to someone else disregard. How many wonkaticket’s do you have in your email system again??

Regardless if any one needs to tell me anything or not. Daniel I can assure one thing you are the last guy I’ll be looking for advice from. Lighten up Daniel.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Amazing you can take from what I just posted that I was putting on a show.
And your hostility totally fails to match anything I've said to you.
But if you've found yourself a villain you wish to ongoingly engage, I guess I can't do much to change your mind.


Daniel

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Posted By: John

Daniel…thanks but not in the market for a villain right now, besides I would want to be the villain anyone who reads comics will tell you the villains are the best!

Besides there are only 2 super heroes here in my book!



Also for the record villains are generally exciting, ruthless & cunning and a worthy adversary.





Daniel you’re mildly annoying at best.




Look Barry & Jeff I didn’t put “your”

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dick Dastardly. Now there is a name from my youth. I can't tell you how psyched I was when my kids found the Boomerang cartoon channel on TV and on came Wacky Races with Dick Dastardly and Muttley. Is there a better cartoon character than that snickering dog? I think not.

Edited to add: John, you are to be commended for your you're. Just think how confused Barry and I would be if your you're would have been you're your!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Excellent John How come Leon gets to be in all your pictures with Mr. Mint? You realize they are dressed as the Ambiguously Gay duo?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- look at the time. We both posted at 6:59. We did it again!

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Posted By: leon

I understand Paul wasn't attacking Ted's family members per se. I get it. Please understand that I am hyper-sensitive to a few things. 1. Anything to do with family members. 2. Protecting anyone, especially a banner advertiser. I will over compensate in these 2 areas. I have already exchanged emails with Paul. I don't think he (hi Paul) was attacking a family member he was only referencing what Ted had already said, as my edit states. Trust me guys...you might all hate me or leave but I will continue to be overly protective of family members. We can argue amongst ourselves all day and it's ok, though I would prefer we didn't. I won't apologize for my policy in these 2 areas mentioned. I would rather be safe than sorry....I still think most of what Frank said in the first post was tongue in cheek but I do see how it was construed differently. It's very difficult to get expressions and personal idiosyncracies through a keyboard. best regards

edited grammar though I still stink at it

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Posted By: John

Shhhh Barry don’t let the cat out of the bag on Leon, he told us about his "type card" lifestyle in confidence remember?

Agreed Jeff, Dick Dastardly was the best; in fact somewhere on my computer I have cell phone ring tone of Muttley’s laugh. Good stuff!

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Posted By: leon

I don't delete threads unless it's an absolute troll. I will lock them but not delete them. That way if I have a change of heart I can unlock. If I delete, it's gone. Also, John- you are correct. I don't catch every single innuendo in every thread. If I do see stuff about family members I will take care of it. I will also try to be more careful (less sensitive) about folks generically saying something as opposed to really getting personal. The best censoring is no censoring in my book.....thanks again

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Posted By: John

Leon good stuff, that’s why you will always be my network 54 super hero in tights!

Thanks for the response and good points.

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Posted By: barrysloate

For the record I called Ted and we spoke in length about the post. Ted basically raised his grandson under difficult circumstances, and he turned out to be a really great kid. While we can argue the intent of Paul's post, ultimately Ted was deeply hurt. If that's the end result, then the post was inappropriate and Leon did the correct thing by deleting it.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Must have been a slow day at work today for Frank W., allowing him to make his umpteenth post on his aversion for professionally graded cards.

I wonder how a post by Frank E. would have fared if it discussed 21st century collecting in an era spoiled by people devoted to over-graded, altered raw cards?

Frank