Highest graded T206's by board members...Total Value (Whew)

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Cool...I'll add both in the morning at work when I have a calculator at hand...

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

I'm sure these will be topped by someone soon, but I have these four in SGC 50

Clarke, Fred Batting
Evers, Johnny Cubs on shirt
Griffith, Clark Batting
Keeler, Willie Portrait

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

scott b. where were you?

i thought you were the one with the Plank(s)...

good work.

MS

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Scott's Plank PSA 3 really boosted up the total value...I guess I could offer my house to everybody to the board for the entire T206 collection...

[Archive]

Posted By: Dylan

I thought there'd be a few more 7s and 8s, dont we have some MM-MT T206 collectors on the board?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

then we'd have a permanent meeting place...could turn it into a frat house

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Dylan,
Here's a few to add:

1. Cobb Bat On PSA 5
2. Cobb Bat Off PSA 4 Piedmont 42
3. Baker PSA 6 Piedmont 42
4. Bender Trees PSA 4 Carolina Brights
5. Bresnahan Portrait SGC 70
6. Bresnahan Batting SGC 88
7. Clarke Port PSA 4 Hindu
8. Clarke Batting PSA 4 Hindu
9. Duffy PSA 7 American Beauty
10. Evers Cubs on shirt PSA 3 Hindu
11. Flick Batting SGC 60
12. Griffith, Batting PSA 5 american Beauty
13. Johnson Hand at chest PSA 5 Red Hindu
14. Marquard, Rube Hands at Thighs PSA 4 Hindu
15.McGraw, John Glove at Hip SGC 70
16.Speaker, Tris Batting SGC 70
17. Tinker, Joe Bat on Shoulder PSA 5 Tolstoi
18. Wallace, Bobby Portrait PSA 4 Hindu
19. Willis, Vic Throwing PSA 5 Lenox
20. Mathewson, Christy Black cap PSA 5 Piedmont 42
Be well Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Dale

One nice card!

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

If someone wants to list them I have 130-140 psa 8s, a couple 9s and a couple less along with a couple old sgc cards that psa would not grade.

All except the SGC cards are on the PSA set registry.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

The list is for the HOF'ers only.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I have one I could add, Elberfield Washington portrait. But I won't. I haven't broken him out yet. But eventually I'll help him escape.

If I went mad, sat down with scissors, and began cutting my T206s in half, I have dozens that I'd rather keep whole than the graded Elberfield.

I consider his graded status a temporary flaw, that I'll eventually correct. I'll value him more when he's out of his slab.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Curious if don't want one slabbed why you would have paid the price on one just to bust it out?

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Got a good deal on him...

Had been bidding and losing on the card and the card in slabs for months, finally won this one in a slab. I'd guess I bought about a dozen of my white border cards slabbed. This Elberfield is the only one not busted out.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Not sure how you'd get a good deal on a high grade slabbed card unless your wanting a slabbed card...If we are talking PSA 8, I'm sure it was AT LEAST in the three thousand dollar range?....seems most guys not into slabs would only go a couple hundred max for an Elberfield raw in nrmt shape.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

DAVE

What you are implying in your latest post is that us "naked card lovers" are inflexible.
That we only acquire cards in their naked state and never Graded ones.

But, it appears that the devoted Graded card lovers are the inflexible ones, who would
never dare to buy a naked card.

Just like Frank's acquisition of the Elberfeld card, if I see a good deal on a tougher card
as the the Elberfeld (Washington portrait), I don't give a crap if it is naked or graded. I
go after it. And, whether I crack it open or not is my prerogative.

I have many cards still in their plastics that are Graded 4, 5 , 6, 7, and a couple of 8's.
For now, I leave them encapsulated for future trades or sales or however I intend to
dispose of them.

You guys have to get off this "critical kick" of yours towards collectors who don't quite
agree with your collecting habits. It's a big, big world out there in BB card hobbyland.

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Your taking my comments a little out of context. Honestly I don't care either way if people collect graded or ungraded. My point was...within the graded card industry, there is a significant market price on a PSA 8 Elberfield portrait. The prices they go for in a PSA 8 or an SGC 88 are not the same prices that the card would go for ungraded...do you not agree with that? My only question was why pay that much of a premium for a PSA 8, when your not going to keep it incapsulated? That card that may go for $9000 in a PSA 8, I seriously doubt if sold after being cracked you'd get much more than $500 for it...

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I didn't buy Elberfield to sell him... I got him to collect him. To collect the white border cards, plus the Kid had an interesting career.

For me, collecting cards isn't about the money. Nor their value. I don't doubt that some of the slabbed cards, no, I'll grant you that ALL of the slabbed cards that I've broken out will now sell for less. No big deal, I'm not selling them. For me, they're now easier to store, they fit in the little business card box that currently holds about 600 T cards. I can sort through them easier to look at the series progression, the uniform and pose changes. I find the slabs clunky, bulky, and a pain.

I keep thinking about starting a Net54 forum that is about old baseball and old baseball cards, and absolutely not about slabbed cards and card values. I suspect a few folks here would migrate over. But I'm not Leon, I lack the skill, patience, and wisdom he demonstrates daily, hourly, here. I don't have time to constantly monitor such a site, either.

My point wasn't to change the direction of this thread, I just noticed that there had not been an Elberfield Washington portrait mentioned.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

No argument that a Graded card in today's environment (especially Ebay) will sell for more $$$$
than it's naked counterpart. Unless, it's a private transaction where both buyer and seller fully
trust each other. And Dave, that's the way it was for many years from the 1970's to the mid-90's.
Now, I suspect a large number of Graded card collectors on this Forum are so conditioned in their
card buying habits, that they would be very suspect of any sharp looking naked card.

So, I would like to understand this.....1st..did you collect cards back in those years, prior to the
BB card Grading phenomena ?

2nd..If so, were you very meticulous or selective from whom you bought (or traded) cards with ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Ted,

That is the heart of the issue. Seems to be that before grading, collectors did need to establish a relationship with someone before they were comfortable with transactions through the mail. Otherwise, most was face to face, at shows or seeking one another out. Condition has always been a concern, but seems to me that most collectors were happy with Ex cards, nrMt wasn't necessary. The more it became about the money, the more dissatisfied folks were with G or VG cards. For me, I didn't try to put T206s together in Ex. I was after the cards because of the set itself and the players depicted, not because of value. I was generally content with VG cards. I'd have never gotten them together if I was after Ex, cost would have been too much for me then, way too much now.

So when did you start collecting, Dave? And what did you initially collect?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

You guys have just raised an interesting issue and Dave is right: collectors that don't want slabbed cards may be forced to pay an inflated rate for certain cards they want but are only to be found slabbed. Maybe the problem is not as acute for low to mid-range conditioned cards but for 7s and up the disparity between the raw and the slabbed version of the same card is exponential. In essence, buying the card slabbed and then breaking it out immediately causes the value to plummet in the marketplace. So the Teds and the Franks out there are knowingly willing to erase some of the value of their cards (at least until they are re-slabbed) in the name of collecting what they want and how they want, with relative value thrown to the wind. You guys are basically the anti-Jim Crandells -- who claims to knowingly have trimmed cards in his collection and won't dare have them released from the slabs for fear of losing value, despite his desire to clean up the hobby by spotting trimmed cardds! Interesting. Let me know when the two of you are ready for your invitation to the NYC Dinner Thread III Dinner.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Jeff, I'd not thought it through like that, but I agree with what you've said.

I'm working up an appetite for a NY Dinner (should I use all caps for that?), just takes a while for a Ky fella to stack enough nickels up to afford the trip. I'll get up there one day.

Frank.

[Archive]

Posted By: Judson Hamlin

Jeff- You're right; and I include myself in the Frank/Ted camp. I have found that the further along I go with my 206 and 205 sets, there are just not that many raw cards to choose from, from buyers that I would trust sight unseen. Also, many of the dealers that I do trust and have dealt with for years now sell graded cards almost to the exclusion of raw cards. That doesn't make me want to stop doing business with them, it just means that I have to buy graded cards, sometimes at a premium, to progress these sets. I haven't started to exhume the graded cards (yet) but I agree with Frank that they take up way too much space as compared to a top-holder.

OT for Jeff- Tacopina's trial down here starts on Monday- he's been busy warming up his rightous indignation muscles, so he should be ready

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Jeff did kind of bring more point more to light than I was able to do...it being the opposite of many...buying cards and knowing that when your taking them out of slabs the "general consensus" of what they are worth falls. Grading has indeed done some ridicilious things with card prices...I agree. When a common T206 (and I'm guessing on a book value) in near mint condition is said to be worth $400, but put in a PSA 8 holder than instantly sells for $2200...it is all about the slab of course.

Ted and Frank, the both of you may very well have no problem buying high end slabbed cards and ripping them out (if it is a card you just plain need). Obviously most people couldn't do this for finiancial reasons to begin with...from what I've gathered about both of you on the board that isn't really an issue.

Wanted to also say I wasn't trying to come across as a smartass to either of you. I'm a huge T206 guy...I don't have the years in it either of you have and have learned alot from both your posts on this board. I'm 31...so my collecting in the 70's obviously was limited to diapers and rattlers. I did what everyone my age did..collect the mass produced modern crap in the 80's...got back into cards about three years ago after getting married and started on a 1952 topps set. Sold that last year to focus on prewar and eventually just T206's after coming up on this board a year ago. So again...the relationships and trust built buying from the local card shop or the card show in town, neither of those have been available to me when it comes to vintage. For me, all experience have been about slabbed cards...I'm not in it for the money, as I said i'm 31 with three small kids and a wife...I collect PSA 1-3's. Obviously not Jim Crandell material. The day may come when I get sick of the slabs as well and bust everything out...but for now, it makes more sense for me to have them slabbed. In the grades I buy, the card actually comes cheaper being slabbed if you figure in what somebody spent to get the card graded. Also with a nine year old son, who does occasionally like to look at what I have, I dont have to worry when he quickly grabs up a T206, its encased and immune to his accident waiting to happen hands.


Dave

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

My youngest kids turn 16 Sunday. Oldest is 35...

When my twins were 4ish, they saw me with cards, and wanted some of their own. I gave each of them a ring binder with 9 pocket sheets, and a few dozen beat up 1960s and 70s Topps cards, most with pen marks on them where someone created a game years ago.

Having a 9 year old son is a good reason to have the cards in slabs. Good enough reason for me, Dave.

I didn't buy slabbed cards to have a slabbed card (well I did only once, because I was going to give the card as a gift), I bought a slabbed card for the reason Judson stated, options at filling holes are few as one progresses into a set.

After the first few cards were broken out I started saving the little slips with the numbers and info on them. Don't know what I'll do with them...

And in thinking back on it, I wasn't buying cards from but half a dozen folks, for the most part, years ago. I'd stumble onto a dealer, buy a few cards from him, and if I liked the cards, the grading, the service, then I'd stay loyal... If they didn't grade to suit, or if they yanked me around with ordering delays and high shipping, then I'd move on. Reflecting on that, the price of the card didn't rile me near as much as shipping costs. Jeff's post got me to see that. Thanks.

Sometimes I bought cards face to face, from folks I knew. And I bought a few at shows. Some dealers were helpful, knew cards, and liked to talk about cards and baseball. I'd make repeat trips to those guys. Some would tell me I couldn't afford whatever card or type I'd asked about, even if he had one, I'd move on, even if I had half a dozen of the type already in my pocket. (Used to put cards in top loaders and pack 'em in pockets in those days, I haven't been to a big show in ten years, anyone still walk around with cards in their pockets?)

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

The other reason at least for the time being is at least in my case, you never know when you may need the emergency money. Of course I have an emergency fund in bank accounts..but never know what can happen. IF I ever needed to get some quick money and had to sell my T206's, which I'd hate to have to do, I feel I could at least get back the money I put into them having them slabbed.
Again, may all change in the future as I get a little older, build a little more equity...living in Atlanta while I know isn't as expensive as living in the northeast, it still isn't cheap. I'm also going to take a wild guess being a Judge (and to what level Judge you are and what you make of course a response isn't necessary), although I'd assume a Judge of any sort makes pretty good money. I've said it before but i'm a estimator and project manager for a asphalt paving company (damn lost out on that bid this morning), i'm not rolling in dough...yet anyway. Things as they are, if I ever go the route of collecting just raw cards, I would probably sell most the ones I have as is and then start over raw.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

And frankly, they are right. A judge in LA County makes about the same as a 1st year associate at a major firm. I know more than one lawyer who would like to take a shot at the bench but cannot afford to take a judicial position. We lose a lot of good judges every year to the private arbitration/mediation business.

As far as slabs go, I definitely see the financial value of slabbing stuff to sell but I am sick of the storage headaches and costs of slabs for cards I don't want to sell. I haven't submitted a card for slabbing in quite some time and my submittals probably will be few and far between in the future. Not in any way a critique of slabbed cards, simply my growing preference not to have thick, heavy plastic cases to deal with.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Amen to both, warsawlaw....

And I AM guilty of getting some T210s and a T206 graded by SGC when I decided to sell them. Maybe that is the time to get a card graded...


And Mr. Boxing Card Man, I revived your Tomorrow Life Begins spring training thread..

Frank.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Crandell

Jeff,

Wrong again.

I don't know that I have trimmed vcards in my collection. I presume that a small percentage have been altered because some get by even the keen eyes of the best card analyzers in the world. Once they are in the holders it is hard to say and they all seem to have incredible value in the grade I collect.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Crandell

To get my list of T206s on the PSA Set Registry go to psacard.com. Then go to PSA Set Registry and then baseball sets and then T206. I rank 25th or so in this set and all my cards are listed.

I don't know how to do links.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

I'll take a look at your set. By the way, I'm in the mood to not fight tonight.

Dave

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, as noted in the other thread you wrote that you were "sure" that some of your cards would not regrade. Now you claim that you simply "presume" this to be true. Sorry that I took you at your word. I had forgotten for a brief moment who I was dealing with.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Crandell

Dave,

Oh nuts--I was looking forward to it--couldn't wait to get home from the TOC squash championships to go at it again.

Jeff is always ready for a skirmish but I have been warned by many to steer clear off him--so go ahead Jeff--you will win because I won't respond.

Jim

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, I'm not looking for a fight -- it just pains me to find you always insulting everyone and then crying about the treatment you receive here. And despite your many offers to "debate" me now you are running away? Jim, you are a lot of things but I never expected you to be a coward.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Said I wasn't in the mood....however that obviously doesn't change the fact your still a LOLLYGAGGER



Dave

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

You just flat out have nothing to say that indicates any level of intelligence.

Jeff,

I am running away???? I have offered to debate you several times and you never respond.

You don't understand Jeff--I don't care about the treatment--and I am only responding to what people say to me. Why should I go out of my way to insult people like Bretta and Dave who have nothing intelligent to say. I am only responding to their insults.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, last night you claimed that you have been warned to "steer clear off [sic]" me and that you won't respond -- and today you respond. I find it funny how at a last resort you claim that you have anonymous support on the board when we both know that there is not a single person here that can stand you. You've even managed to insult Joann. I guess she's bad too. It must be tough to live in a world where you're the only one who is always right and everyone is always wrong. I've never seen a guy who is so blind to his own stink.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andrew Parks

I just want to say I don't mind either of you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

I get so sick of this "Dave and Bretta have nothing intelligent to say" line of crap you keep spewing. I haven't seen where either of us are doing anything but responding to your typical ramblings. I told you last night I wasn't in the mood, and what do you do? You act like a jerk, again. Maybe it has nothing to do with the cards...maybe it has nothing to do with the collectors...maybe you just have problems getting along with everyone in your life?? Do you find in your daily life everyone you encounter rolling thier eyes as they see you coming Jim? Give up this crap about us not having anything intelligent to say. Once again, and as always...Lollygagger.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff,

I have no idea what you mean. You and others keep saying I am disliked on the board. WHO CARES--this is not a popularity contest. I could care less what anyone thinks here--I just tell it like it is or how I see it. You and others seem to take great comfort in that there are others who don't like me--

Dave the Dunce speaks again--ha ha ha.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ok, Jim. Go to work. There is no comfort here in the fact that you are roundly reviled, believe me. I wish you were a more positive person and liked by many. Really.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Why don't you go sit in a cold, dark room with your PSA 8's and 9's....and cuddle with them? At least that would give everyone here a break from you.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

"Roundly reviled"--good one.

You just cannot stay away from the personal attacks.

Appreciate all the support non card alteration--ha ha.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, I do actually wish you were a nicer person and not so ugly. I think your children would benefit and their children would benefit and so forth and maybe at least a part of the world would be nicer, less paranoid and more giving. Imagine what your children would think if they read this asinine crap you post out here. Do you ever think of that?

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff,

Do you ever have any hobby thoughts or do you just like to attack me all the time.

You said you were supportive? All I know about you is you and Colt were trading insults and you both took them down.

If you have anything positive to say please say it--did you ever think of that?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, what you fail to realize is that there can hardly be any discourse when you are around -- in any venue. Something bad must have happened to you to make you this way. I wonder what.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff,

That is about 6 personal insults in a row--not once have I stooped anywhere near your level.

Where is all this vigorous support for my positions you said you made...looking and looking and looking.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, do you not recognize that T206 agreed to back off of you-only to be attacked by you again? How is it insulting for me to point this out? Do you have a framed picture of Richard Nixon on your wall?

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff's tenth persoanl attack in a row--I think its getting obvious that the guy has serious issues that he feels the need to continue this.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, are you reaching out to the board in a desperate attempt to get any support? I think you'll find that your desperate pleas are falling on deaf ears. Personal issues? You think I have some personal issues because I find myself trying to dial down your nastiness and to get you to play nice? Jim, I'm just curious: what personal issues do you think someone like me would have that would cause me to respond to you the way I have? Please enlighten me.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff,

You just don't get it--I don't need support--I don't want support--but something is wrong with a guy who attacks someone time and again while I have said nothing about you. You hate me--I get it--the board gets it--is it necessary to say it 20 different ways and bring my family into it?

Can't you talk about hobby issues. I have asked you numerous times to talk about all this substantial support you weere giving me that I can't seem to remember?