Fro Joy Babe Ruth Cards

[HBroll]

Here is a photo of my Ruth premium I rescued from a 1920's/30's scrapbook. There is definitely a blue tint to the premium. The debossed center surrounding Ruth's image is also a great way to confirm authenticity.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by vintagecpa

It is too bad the Fro Joy market is so screwed up with reprints. They are nice cards that I will just never bother to own because I don't trust any of them. Heck, if the original plate is still in existence, somebody is probably printing some out as I type.

If a plate does exist, it would have to be of the sheet, not the factory cut singles. The cards on the sheet are different compared to the factory cut singles, therefore they can be identified as authentic or not. From what I've read, a counterfeiter could not print them today as they did in 1928. It seems the reprint problem originated pre-1980.

Any single card that has characteristics of uncut sheet cards is not authentic; it is a counterfeit. Amid heavy research, I have only found one black and white counterfeit of the machine cut single, and it was horribly done, very obvious. It was artificially aged and brownish.

As I mentioned before, I purchased a single from a counterfeit uncut sheet with limited knowledge of the issue. But even so, I knew it was counterfeit as soon as I received it and held it. Paypal refunded, and I still have it because the seller would not provide his return address. I subsequently purchased a BVG graded Fro Joy crack fielder and immediately noticed the difference. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have purchased it.

Based on what I've read, a lot of which was from old threads here, the problem has always been that we didn't know the cards on the sheet possessed different characteristics compared to the factory cut singles. Knowledgeable collectors have always informed others to watch out for the dotted cut lines, the text box gaps, and lack of photo clarity, but they didn't know why they were saying that (full sheet characteristics). They were saying that because people were purchasing singles that were cut from a counterfeit sheet.

If a printing plate exists, would it have sold by now because of its uselessness? It is ridiculous that authentication companies can't authenticate this issue. Beckett has complete confidence, with the cards that is.

It's as simple as this:

Characteristics of cards on a full sheet, both authentic and counterfeit:

• dotted cut line on front
• gaps in the corners of the text box on the back
• lack of clarity in the photo, lesser quality than the machine cut singles

Characteristics of cards on an authentic full sheet:

• cardboard color back (like the Fro Joy premium)

Characteristics of cards on a counterfeit full sheet:

• whitish back like the machine cut singles

Characteristics of an authentic machine cut single:

• Solid text box on the back
• Photo clarity on front compared to the sheet, better quality
• No dotted cut lines

Characteristics of a counterfeit machine cut card single:

• Color photo
• Blue Photo
• Cards that are brownish from manufactured aging

Here's one of those repli-cards, which is a black and white counterfeit of the factory cut single. It also has the connected text box on the back. It's next to an authentic:

[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

If a single card matches the description of a card on the full sheet, it's a counterfeit, period.

It's not as difficult as it seemed.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by HBroll

Here is a photo of my Ruth premium I rescued from a 1920's/30's scrapbook. There is definitely a blue tint to the premium. The debossed center surrounding Ruth's image is also a great way to confirm authenticity.

Thank You! That's a nice one,

May I send mine to you with a postage paid return envelope? Will you photograph it next to yours, please?

Greg Martin

BTW, mine is only the center area.

[HBroll]

Hi Greg,
Sure. I will send you a PM with my address.
Howard

[Clutch-Hitter]

Spoke to Robert Lifson today when he followed up from the message I sent. He was a very nice man and was very generous with his time.

__________________________________________________ ___________

Howard, thank you for your generosity.

Hi Greg,

I got your Ruth premium today. Its a nice piece. These are very scarce and even though yours does not have the outside border, the image of Ruth is very nice. These premiums are extremely hard to find in ANY condition. Yours is 1000% authentic.

The first 2 photos (front & back) are with the flash of my camera on and the next two are with the flash off.

[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

Hi Greg! Based on the scan, this looks 100% authentic to me. 100%. 100%. 100%. (it is, however, trimmed).
Sincerely,
Rob L
Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[Clutch-Hitter]

These would possibly fool people because they appear to be old. The seller is honest and stated they are likely reprints in the auction.

The cards have characteristics of singles cut from a sheet, so they are without a doubt 30+ year old counterfeits:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-FRO-JO...item1c189c9384

[shimozukawa]

.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by shimozukawa

I think if the seller were completely honest, they would put reprint into the auction title. By saying "most likely" reprints in the description, they are trying to play on the greed of the individual who will think "but what if it's not!!!"

Just my thoughts on it. If you know something is a reprint, the auction title should say so, and the description should be simple and say "These are reprints." If you got them from someone else and there's a 0.01% chance they're not, then I'm sure the buyer won't complain if they're real.

You're right, good point.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Here's another authentic uncut sheet. Note the cardboard color of the reverse.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123

[Clutch-Hitter]

Wow,

I disputed the charge made to Beckett for authentication only of my Fro Joy Premium and just learned they will not be crediting my account, citing services were rendered. Beckett did indeed render apathetic services. Beckett lackadaisically rendered an incorrect opinion, threatening a seller's reputation and an important collectible in the process. Beckett's reputation remains the same, bottom of the pack.

Owner of Robert Edward Auctions, Robert Lifson, has handled these Fro Joy premiums in the past. His opinion was that mine is authentic.

Howard owns a full size premium, and compared mine to his in person, concluding mine is authentic.

Based on data from the Beckett web site, they've never handled one. It seems they measured the card and rendered a decision, collecting nearly $50.00 in the process. I'm disgusted. They'll holder a strip card or a T206 that has been cut in half, won't they?

Their population report for Fro Joy premiums remains 0, but at least they now know what a premium should look like.

Howard, thank you again for comparing and photographing my trimmed Fro Joy premium next to your full size premium.