NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
Old Cardboard

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main PreWWII Forums > Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-15-2012, 07:20 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default T205 Graham discussion

A while back I posted that there was 2 different types of T205 Graham Signature variations. One is a "Blue Signature on front" variation and the other is "Black Signature on front" variation. Since both of these can be found on Piedmont and Sweet Caporal as well as some others this would fall into the actual variation "CLAUSE" right? There seems to be no lack of either but the Black Signature would be the scarcer of the 2 since the blue is almost on all known backs and the black is only on a few. There is no premium added to either since they both sell at the same price but I feel as time goes the blue signature may carry a very small premium since there are less of them.

I am looking for input on this subject. Would a nice write up with pics of the cards F/B be enough for SGC, SCD, PSA to recognize? I am just wondering because they did the Matty Cycle error but never heard why they did finally recognize it. Hope to hear some good thoughts/opinions on this.



a few links and pics. only the pics are/were mine


Graham Blue Pied. Fact. 25 courtesy of Tim/abravefan:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-D...2520Graham.jpg

Graham Blue PB Fact. 6:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T205-GEORGE-...#ht_2356wt_956

Graham Black Pied. 25:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T205-Pi...#ht_720wt_1189

The pics are of a Sweet Cap Fact 42, Broadleaf Olive green Fact. 25, American Beauty Black Fact. 42, and Cycle Fact.25.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg graham signature variation.jpg (77.8 KB, 353 views)
File Type: jpg graham signature variation_0001.jpg (73.3 KB, 351 views)

Last edited by Pup6913; 04-15-2012 at 10:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:30 PM
Wite3's Avatar
Wite3 Wite3 is offline
Joshua
J0shua Le.vine
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,047
Default

Still not convinced especially since your two links show that the sig. Is black on pied. 25...still have not seen a piedmont 25 blue scan yet...I would consider this a variation like cycle Matty...

Btw...do people consider the different m or e cards(like globe, Indianapolis brewing, sporting news, etc.) which use the same format, same pics, but different advertising as different sets or variations? I view the Matty cycle just like this..not a variation but a different card set or subset with different advertising.

Joshua
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:35 PM
familytoad's Avatar
familytoad familytoad is offline
Brian Lindholme
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ridgefield, WA
Posts: 738
Default pass?

Andrew,
I can clearly remember passing on the first T205 Graham I saw that had the blue signature...I thought it was overwritten or traced by some kid with blue pen. That was probably 17-18 years ago, Albany NY card show. I was very early into the T205 set.
It took me a little while to see another in person (I wasn't on eBay... if it even existed then) and then I noticed it again...and looked closer to determine that it was a non-altered card. I don't have a scan handy, but when I do...I'll post here.
So I have had the Graham a long time, meaning I passed at looking for more of them over the years. In fact I probably don't even have a black-ink version...but maybe.
I do think this is a legitimate variation, and should be in the "master set".

FWIW, I'm less fond of having the Cycle Back Mathewson listed, as that card only exists with one back type (as you point out) and looks like a simple misprint rather than a true unique version. What I mean is...like say, the Collins/Bresnahan/Chase/Wiltse pose variations or the different signature lines (Crandall, Graham, Leifield)

Here's another opportunity to promote my proposed new website
damnyoukaiserwilhelm.com
__________________
Thanks!

Brian L
Familytoad
Ridgefield, WA

See my SGC HOF Collection here:
http://www.sgccard.com/customsetcomposition.aspx?id=463
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:11 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Matt Wieder
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 2,334
Default

The difference between this and the 37-1 Matty (and different add backs) is that with the 37-1 Matty, there is clearly a different printing text used for the non-advertising part of the back. It's as if a player had his team listed as Philadelphia on one card and Pittsburgh on another; regardless of if such a variation corresponded to a certain advertising back or not, it is categorically different than something like this Graham printing issue, which could simply because by a different mixing of the inks.
__________________
To send me a Private Message, click here.
Please check out my albums and my Trade/Sale Listings.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:26 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Piedmont Fact. 25 Blue Signature on front link fixed.

This would make for a variation then. There is a Piedmont Fact 25 for both Blue and Black, and would say the Blue Signature on front is of lesser quantity.

Last edited by Pup6913; 04-15-2012 at 10:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:34 AM
Wite3's Avatar
Wite3 Wite3 is offline
Joshua
J0shua Le.vine
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,047
Default

Andrew...now I see that there are two versions for the piedmont and I would consider this a variation. Thanks for fixing the link.

Joshua
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:37 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 2,906
Default

Cool! a T205 thread I can contribute to. (I have maybe 20 of them and haven't studied them much. )

My Graham is P25 black sig.

Some color differences can be from the ink mixing, but black was nearly always done with various forms of carbon as the pigment,(For printing inks ca 1911) and it just doesn't fade and didn't need to be mixed.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-16-2012, 08:02 AM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So here is the million dollar question then. Should it be only the Piedmont Fact 25 Blue Signature on front or should each card be labeled as such with the appropriate signature color and the emphasis being that Pied fact. 25 Blue being the hardest. I would think that Graham Blue Signature on front for only the Piedmont Fact 25 would be a good label. Any thoughts?


Even though the Black signature is far less plentiful on the Graham FB combos the Blue Signature Piedmont Fact 25 will be the the rarer of the 2. There can at anytime be 5 to 1 Black to blue Piedmont 25. I have only seen a few over the past few months and think there will be far less now.

BTW if anyone has any to show it would be nice to possibly see what the ratio we as board members may have. I also believe that the sweet caporal reds have the same blue and black signature variation

Last edited by Pup6913; 04-16-2012 at 08:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:49 PM
dherm360 dherm360 is offline
Dave
member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 141
Default

I have a Piedmont 25 with Black Sig
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:46 AM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Please if any of you have any others not shown especially the Sweet Caporal backs post them. Or what ever you have for that matter for a better count on blue to black Pied 25
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New T205 Variation Graham "Blue Signature" Pup6913 Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 9 08-11-2011 12:13 PM
T205 Peaches Graham Questionable Ebay Auction T's please Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 05-14-2009 04:10 PM
For Discussion: Relative Values of T206 and T205 Archive Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 06-02-2006 09:57 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:03 PM.


ebay GSB