Baseball Hall of Fame Vote

[Fred]

For those of you that like Larry Walker you guys gotta love Todd Helton:

Split

                  Home     Away

Games         1039       1015

AB              3688       3637

Runs            826         503

2B               296         258

3B                26             9

HR               212         135

RBI              788         520    

B.A.             .354        .291

SlgAve         .620        .478 

OPS            1.071       .869

I suppose, even with the Denver bias he's still a pretty good hitting machine.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Fred

For those of you that like Larry Walker you guys gotta love Todd Helton:

I suppose, even with the Denver bias he's still a pretty good hitting machine.

I was joking before when I blew off the Colorado factor. But yes, Walker, Gallaraga, Burks, Castilla, Helton, Holliday, Tulo. I can't help it. I've always been a fan of those Colorado sluggers. Helton power splits shouldn't be that different. Helton only played 5 seasons pre-humidor.. However, they did build that stadium with a deep outfield to account for the pre-humidor power surge. So nowadays, it's a great park for doubles and average.. Walker and Helton are still hall worthy in my book though, and Tulo's gotten off to a great start.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I was joking before when I blew off the Colorado factor. But yes, Walker, Gallaraga, Burks, Castilla, Helton, Holliday, Tulo. I can't help it. I've always been a fan of those Colorado sluggers. Helton power splits shouldn't be that different. Helton only played 5 seasons pre-humidor.. However, they did build that stadium with a deep outfield to account for the pre-humidor power surge. So nowadays, it's a great park for doubles and average.. Walker and Helton are still hall worthy in my book though, and Tulo's gotten off to a great start.

Gallaraga was one of my favorite players... i wish he had better stats.. To come back from what he went through and dominate is astounding.

I think Helton is well on his way to the HoF.

[abothebear]

"My point is that no one considers Finley or Reuschel to be HOFers and rightfully so. Why all the love for Morris?"

Because it isn't the Hall of Statistics.

[David W]

Back a few posts to the strike/lockout comment.

Harold Baines would be a hall of famer except for the 1981 and 1994/95 missed games, as he would certainly have made 3000 hits and 400 HR's.

McGriff gets to 500 homers without 94/95.

Neither is likely to get in......

[kcohen]

In the Rizzuto v Conception debate, I find the contention that the latter played against superior competition to be highly questionable.

[Chris Counts]

"In the Rizzuto v Conception debate, I find the contention that the latter played against superior competition to be highly questionable."

It's easy for me to believe. Even though the Indians integrated in '48 and the White Sox two years later, the American League wasn't completely integrated until 1959. Most teams dragged their feet on it. The Yankees didn't lift their ban until 1955, when Rizzuto was essentially done. So there were many African-American and Latino players who never had a chance to play against Rizzuto. Because the National League integrated much faster — and raised its level of talent, its teams dominated the 1960s (Dodgers, Cardinals), while the Yankees steadily declined. They didn't win again until the late 1970s, when players like Reggie Jackson, Willie Randolph, Chris Chambliss, Mickey Rivers and others raised their talent level ...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by David W

Back a few posts to the strike/lockout comment.

Harold Baines would be a hall of famer except for the 1981 and 1994/95 missed games, as he would certainly have made 3000 hits and 400 HR's.

McGriff gets to 500 homers without 94/95.

Neither is likely to get in......

Completely agreed. McGriff played 50 post-season games, around the same as he missed because of the 94/95 strike. In those 50 games he hit 10 HR's...That would've put him at 503. Gehrig coincindentally, also had 10 post-season HR's. That would also put him at 503. Counting post-season. Sam Rice goes over 3000 hits.

Those I believe are the only 3 players that go over major milestones(300 W, 500 HR, 3000 K or H) if you were to count post-season stats..

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by David W
Back a few posts to the strike/lockout comment.

Harold Baines would be a hall of famer except for the 1981 and 1994/95 missed games, as he would certainly have made 3000 hits and 400 HR's.

McGriff gets to 500 homers without 94/95.

Neither is likely to get in......

I'm not so sure McGriff won't get in. Some of the writers are already saying that they are looking at him again and what he did without PED's. I think that with the fact that they won't be voting for any of the steroid guys (at least for the first few years) it will give McGriff a chance to get in within the next 5 years. I'm really curious as to how Morris will do in the next couple of years. If he doesn't get in, he will be only the 2nd person ever to get over 50% and not get in...the first and only so far is Gil Hodges, and don't get me started about that

[Irwin Fletcher]

Originally Posted by abothebear

"My point is that no one considers Finley or Reuschel to be HOFers and rightfully so. Why all the love for Morris?"

Because it isn't the Hall of Statistics.

That may be true, but I'm not aware of any other way to evaluate a player's performance and, just as importantly, compare a player's performance to that of his peers.

[Kenny Cole]

I would suggest that watching the person play is another, better, way. Doesn't work for the old timers, obviously, but having watched a person play and having access to the player's stats is better than simply crunching the numbers IMO.

[mr2686]

Kenny, you said a mouth full. You can't just crunch numbers and get the full story of a player. I think some of the new analytics have been great for the game and have helped further discussion, but they've also been bad in that they over analyze things. Example, the adjusted stats based on home ball park. Does that really tell you that a home run that a player hit in ball park A, would not have been out of ball park B? I mean, if you it the ball 380ft it's gonna go out of most parks (this does not include Coors field for obvious reasons). I think Hodges was hurt the most by this type of stat (although it sure doesn't seem to have hurt Snider).
Now, to another point. There are no right or wrong answers to any of this...that's what makes baseball great. The ability to have two people argue over their favorite players, or even two random players, and try to convince each other who was a better player. These types of questions and arguements have been going on for as long as baseball has been around. From Ruth vs Gehrig, to Mantle vs Mays vs Snider, to Rizzuto vs Reese, and now Larkin vs Trammel. It makes you want to learn more about your player so that you have more of an arguement...and in the process, you learn more about baseball in general. Great sport.

[yanks12025]

Going by stats Jackie Robinson shouldn't be in the hall of fame. He just had basic stats. I know he didnt start his career till 28 and is the first black player in mlb.

[FrankWakefield]

And to add to what Mike just said about Mr. Hodges, from the first person accounts I've heard, Mr. Hodges was a kind gentleman.