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#51
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Henry, |
#52
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
Found an obit for Penn's son here: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-153163047.html |
#53
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Men, I think we may have a match here... Though its not real clear, the spacing and everything is almost the same. I am posting now so perhaps someone can find a better side shot. |
#54
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
I have also found this notation, for what its worth... |
#55
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Great research JON, DAVE, and SHAWN......very informative. |
#56
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Scott M.
Ted, |
#57
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Scot Reader
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#58
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: J Hull
Scott, great find. |
#59
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
Wow, eagle eyes on those press clippings! |
#60
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Is this a coincidence or what??? F.R. PENN Tobacco Co. "Georgia Cracker" Tag! |
#61
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Fantastic stuff, guy. You have proven to to be our Net54 resident detective when it comes researching archival stuff |
#62
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: JimB
Scott, |
#63
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
JIM B |
#64
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: JimB
Hi Ted, |
#65
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: J Hull
Here are the front and back pictures from the tin sold by REA a couple years ago. Putting together the two images, the side of the tin says "For Pipe and Cigarette". |
#66
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
The Penn's tin that I listed above states "Pipe & Cigarette" and it "Chews Good Too"..... |
#67
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
That Penn button says Reidsville, SC but there is also a Reidsville, Georgia. May not mean anything but the Georgia connection is intriguing. |
#68
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#69
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
er, yes that is an "n" after careful scrutiny..... |
#70
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: fkw
Cobb Back is NOT a T206.... it has a glossy surface, and we all know T206 cards are not glossy. Thats enough right there. |
#71
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
In my searching, I had considered the F. R. Penn Tobacco Co. as possibly being the mysterious |
#72
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mike Dalton
This board is great! I am what I believe is usually referred to as a lurker and am just going to chime in here.I did a google book search and found some links that have more info on F.R. Penn. |
#73
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mr. Moses
managed to take the tobacco leaf and manufacture many different products - from plug to snuff. Typically a factory provided ONE type of product but it could be processed and sold in many forms. You couldn't smoke snuff in a pipe or roll it - you couldn't chew tobacco that was processed for cigarettes. With time the factories were looking to reach greater markets and utilze all of the plant and excesses. Plug was a form of chewing tobacco - most often combined with ingredients to sweeten or enhance the taste like fruits, honey, and other flavoring. Plug was about the cheapest form of tobacco other than "clippings". People with "armpit" money would alternatively smoke the chew so to speak. The companies then packaged "cut plug" which could be smoked. "Granulated" cut plug was a natural extension and offered to the public so as to fill their pipe OR roll into cigarettes. This is off the top of my little head - I have doccumentation and better identification somewhere for the terms if they are actually needed - but I think not. Penn tobacco was a widely marketed brand and offered in MANY different style containers. |
#74
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Mr Moses, |
#75
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Anonymous
The Ty/Ty that I had was from an original circa 1910-1911 collection acquired by my wife's grandfather when he was about 10 years old working in his father's hardware/dry goods store in south Alabama. I don't believe he got the card from a VIP party in Georgia. |
#76
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Below is an excerpt and a link that is just slammed full of "Penn" and "Durham" tobacco company info. I think if someone reads through the entire thing they may find some answers. |
#77
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mr. Moses
and most of their other containers are common enuff and don't get big money. The Penn 1 pocket (pocket tin collectors are well established as is the supply demand equation) is extremely tuff and sells in rarified air - it's circa 1900. Of note however is an entry I found: |
#78
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mr. Moses
That appears to come from an American Tobacco Company edition I have on the shelves. I'll glance thru it this weekend.... |
#79
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I think at last count there are only 13 (or perhaps 14) Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb cards. My understanding is that some |
#80
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: leon
I thought this was pretty cool... Notice the factory # on the front of the building. I post this in part, because it could provide a lead to someone? Who knows... |
#81
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
Paging thru my copy of Sold American!....F.R. Penn is described as a "plugmaking subsidiary" that made Penn's Natural, Red J, and Gold Crumbs. Penn's No. 1 also seems to have been produced as plug and smoking tobacco and there is a railcar pictures describing Gold Crumbs as smoking tobacco as well. There were four primary subsidiaries in the plug group (chewing tobacco)and Penn seems to have been the smallest. |
#82
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Anonymous
Double post |
#83
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Let us see what we have learned here. Early in 1910 national newspaper's were reporting of |
#84
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: E, Daniel
I'm starting to believe.... |
#85
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: 1880nonsports
Snuff, plug, and other minor tobacco manufacturers were slowly being bought up by the ATC up until the breakup. Cards had already been proven a successful marketing tool. Most of their production was in cigarettes but they were diversifying as they grew, They decided to name a brand after a southern superstar baseball player. It was a relatively new (and short lived) "granulated plug tobacco" that could be smoked in a pipe (least popular mode after snuff of ingesting tobacco in the period) or rolled in a cigarette. They designed a tin showing him with a bat on pose and so a portrait image was suggested for the card to differentiate it from the image on the tin - or as the manufacture and sale of these minor types of tobacco products came with small margins - perhaps there were extra sheets laying around and they just used them. I personally would have switched the two images . Maybe as few as 2 sheets might have been produced and but a handful of tins as they planned to introduce the brand. We have no evidence of the tin with tobacco actually ON the shelves..... |
#86
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I'm curious as to why you are saying this ?........ |
#87
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: 1880nonsports
a dangerous undertaking - that if it were closer to the dissolution of the trust - then it would be more credible perhaps that the factory 33 became a part of the ATC later into the distribution of the cards (perhaps already declining) - the idea came about for the cards - and then with the dissolution - the Adams company gets taken over by different owners/management or sumptin and aborted the idea of the brand. It may even have happened that in 1910 they were already part of the ATC - sold before the breakup and just as the brand was about to go into production - the idea is aborted for legal or other reasons. |
#88
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
JIM B |
#89
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
I am not sure what the article below is about, because I do not have a subscription to the site... I sure would like to read it though! I have noticed that the "Ty Cobb" brand advertisements are prodominately in the "Macon Weekly Telegraph" paper in Ga. The months seem to be Feb. and Mar. of 1910. If someone has a subscription to genealogybank.com, it would be nice to see some of the full adds. (there seems to be some full page adds) |
#90
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: packs
Here's my opinion: |
#91
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Nice stuff.....thanks for posting. |
#92
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
SHAWN |
#93
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Hey JIM B |
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