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#1
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
This PSA graded Nodgrass is very obviously no good because of the entire S missing. This card was originally sold by George Hober aka greenhornet on ebay years ago. He was the person doctoring the Nodgrass cards at the time. |
#2
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Matt
nice job Dan! |
#3
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Interesting to see that Mastro pulled it even though PSA claims it is ok. Dan, did Mastro tell you that you were the first person that tipped them off to the card being a fake? I thought this was an obvious fake due to the full "S" missing. I wonder if the consignor informed Mastro that REA had rejected the card as a fake first. |
#4
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: barrysloate
I don't think this card is known with a Cycle back. That should be a tip off. |
#5
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
No partial "S", wrong back. I guess PSA and Mastro missed this one together. |
#6
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: John
Barry you are correct. |
#7
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: DD
We now have a card and a Babe Ruth signed ball that have concerns in this auction. If you have the knowledge, you can determine for yourself if the item is good or not. If you don't have the knowledge, and the experts differ on their opinions, whom do you trust? |
#8
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: MVSNYC
this one was no good, missing the complete "S"...i used to have a real PSA 3 (partial "S")... |
#9
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: TODD EVANS
Can someone give me some info on George Hober aka greenhornet that sold cards on Ebay? Was he doctoring cards? |
#10
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Matt R
As a guy that got flamed to death and eventually kicked off on the PSA board for being critical of PSA, would it be appropriate if I laughed at this? |
#11
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Matt, perhaps your experience occurred because your criticism was made on a PSA-owned board? Just a thought. |
#12
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Mark B.
Or perhaps it was because Matt asked for an opinion on a GAI graded card that PSA would not cross multiple times for him. Did not like the opinions so Matt got upset (according to his own postings he cried) and took out his agression on PSA and it's board members, which I will note I am one. |
#13
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: B.C.Daniels
manufactured about 12 of these in one year after no new ones being known for maybe 50 years! Amazing! |
#14
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: leon
I think we all know that there was some crap going on on the PSA board with Matt and some others. As I have told Matt and a few others he can have a clean slate here on Net54. Please don't continue to bring up the issue from over there on this board as all that does is perpetuate the issue. Let it go. I am not taking sides and if I had to guess there was probably more than 1 party at fault in the whole issue. I am sure Matt said things he shouldn't have and so did others. This is a different forum and I think everyone should be given a chance. Please. Lets get back to collecting cards......take care |
#15
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
I went on a PSA board once when they lost my Magie card. Talk about bad mistakes! I left there in pieces. I should have known better I guess. On the other hand, this board not only helped me through that nightmare, it provided me with excellent legal representation that I am forever grateful for. Dan. |
#16
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: B.C.Daniels
call me! I found that Magie card for you! |
#17
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/about/interviews.html#SCD |
#18
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I'm sure this post will result in me getting a tongue lashing in this thread from Doug Allen at some point, but I have to ask this question: why did Mastro have a disclaimer at the end of this listing basically putting the blame on PSA in case it was later determined that this Nodgrass card was a fraud (which it was)? I don't remember ever seeing a disclaimer like that on any other PSA-graded card that Mastro has offered in any auction, so why did it put one here -- unless they had prior knowledge that the Nodgrass was a fake? |
#19
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: John
Jeff, really good point something just doesn't add up on that, kind of odd IMO. |
#20
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Seth Nagdeman
There was a bad "Nodgrass" on eBay recently with the entire "S" missing: |
#21
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
Yikes...if you look closely at that ebay card you can see the entire faded "S" is still there. |
#22
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
Kevin, Hober's Nodgrass cards are so well done that with a 10X magnifier they look great and the paper is not disturbed. You MUST hold the card raw and about a foot away and tilt it under a normal light bulb to see the restoration. You will then see a dull round spot where the S was removed very skillfully.
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#23
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: John
"This item has been examined, reviewed, and affirmed as genuine by PSA; the piece is being described and sold as a "Nodgrass" version on the basis of that company's determination." |
#24
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: JimB
I have what I believe to be real Nodgrass. I will post scans later. It is raw. I bought it in a large lot of T206s years ago. Neither I nor the seller noticed it at the time. There are two small print points on the right side of what would have been the "S". Somebody (presumably in 1910) hand-wrote in the "S" to correct the mistake. WIll post scans tonight. THey are on my home computer and I am at work. |
#25
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
That is interesting Jim, yes please post scans though I am not sure if we can tell with the handwritten S over the spot. Very cool though, thanks Dan. |
#26
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
Can we get a few PSA cult members to chime in here??? What do you guys think PSA should do here? Should they refund the original buyer or just say "sorry about your luck"? |
#27
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: cmoking
"... here I thought third party graders were invented to protect collectors etc. or at least that’s the dream that was sold to me." |
#28
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: JimB
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#29
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Cool card, Jim. As a tip in the future, try to control yourself with that pen of yours. |
#30
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: JimB
I just couldn't help myself. With Barry's influence, I've become a freak for spelling. |
#31
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
Jim that is very cool! I am going to go out on a limb here and state that there is just too much of the right side of the S present and that the crease running through wiped out the rest and caused the oldtimer to ink it in. But hey, God knows that I have been wrong before. Dan. |
#32
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: John
Ok wow I can’t believe I’m going here but oh well no turning back now… |
#33
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
Very well put Mr. John |
#34
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
John, don't hold your breath watiting for an explanation. |
#35
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
Well imagine that...I couldn't agree more with what John stated. Talk about hitting the nail on the head! |
#36
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: John
Jeff, I won’t be but thanks for the advice I agree I’ll be waiting for some time. |
#37
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
John, I called Mastro Monday afternoon to ask about a five-figure card that I thought might have paper loss but was not so indicated in its description; still waiting for a call back. Somehow I suspect that if I'm not getting a response to my question, you won't be hearing anything anytime soon either. |
#38
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Matt
Jeff - Mastro is just bud at geting back to people - I've been waiting on a few scans for almost 2 weeks. Their loss. |
#39
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: cmoking
"How nobody has picked up on this is beyond me" |
#40
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: petecld
Jeff, |
#41
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Pete, thanks for the response. No, I didn't get the email but thanks for the info. |
#42
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Matt
Pete - would it be possible to get the scans I requested? I just sent you an email with the details. |
#43
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
all hope that the ORIGINAL OWNER gets compensated by PSA!!!!!!!!! |
#44
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
This subject is huge. PLEASE let's here from the grading collectors. Should PSA refund or not?? |
#45
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: B D
they should not as it would eat into the profit margin and effect the value of my 2 shares of stock! |
#46
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Tim Kinserlow
I don't have a horse in this race, but if PSA thinks the card might not haunt them some day, they could be wrong. You would think they would want to buy it back, and put the ordeal to rest. |
#47
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
Brian u r a mess, but I still luv ya. |
#48
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: Brad L.
Can we get a few PSA cult members to chime in here??? What do you guys think PSA should do here? Should they refund the original buyer or just say "sorry about your luck"? |
#49
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BAD PSA graded Nodgrass
Posted By: dan mckee
I agree Brad, these mistakes are a small percentage based on the volume they grade. The problem is that there is no one at PSA educated enough in the pre-war field to know any better. Also, I will tell the owner who is out $9500.00 that you don't think this is a big deal.
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