HOF Election - and the Elephant in the Room:

[Seven]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

I agree with the sentiment, and to me the biggest problem is that it's a large hall instead of a small one. If Bonds or one of the others isn't able to join Ruth, Mays, Mantle, etc. for breaking rules it's not such a big deal but when guys like Harold Baines are basically sent in his place it becomes a joke.

I think this is a very valid point. The Hall however, moved away from the "Small Hall" mentality, when the original Veterans Committee, started committing acts of cronyism and electing all of their buddies to the Hall of Fame.

I'm in the camp that Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez, etc should be in the Hall. I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in my opinion, but the more guys like Pudge Rodriguez, David Ortiz, and if this election goes his way, Gary Sheffield get in, it's harder to find justifiable reasons to keep those first three guys I mentioned, out.

[packs]

I don't think Sheffield has a real chance of getting elected. My guess is he tops out at 60%.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think this is a very valid point. The Hall however, moved away from the "Small Hall" mentality, when the original Veterans Committee, started committing acts of cronyism and electing all of their buddies to the Hall of Fame.

I'm in the camp that Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez, etc should be in the Hall. I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in my opinion, but the more guys like Pudge Rodriguez, David Ortiz, and if this election goes his way, Gary Sheffield get in, it's harder to find justifiable reasons to keep those first three guys I mentioned, out.

Personally, I'm against any of the 'cheaters' getting in...putting them on the same level of honor as someone like Hank Aaron is just WRONG.

Remember, it's an honor, not a right.

If they ever get in, it should be posthumously...or at least after I'M DEAD!


.

[Touch'EmAll]

MLB has always wanted to send a very clear message that certain things are not acceptable.

Do they change their tune now, after over 100 years ? If they do change their tune, what impact will that have going forward ? And if they change their tune now, will a very clear message still be sent that certain things are not acceptable ?

Answers not needed, just food for thought.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Personally, I'm against any of the 'cheaters' getting in...putting them on the same level of honor as someone like Hank Aaron is just WRONG.

Remember, it's an honor, not a right.

If they ever get in, it should be posthumously...or at least after I'M DEAD!

.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I totally understand where you're coming from, and I respect that opinion. I fully agree, it should be an honor, and not a right.

To be frank, however, the sanctity of the Hall has long since been violated in my opinion. Cheaters are already in, cheaters will continue to get in, long after we are all gone.

[Mike D.]

Sheffield is at 75% now, but no way he gets elected this year. I think the PED crowd eventually gets in, but it'll probably be in a certain order, with Bonds/Clemens first, then McGwire, then some of the other guys, with the "failed a test after testing" guys last or never.

On Ivan Rodriguez, I feel he was "punished" by at least part of the electorate. He got in his first year with 76% of the vote. If not for PED suspicions, that % would have been 90%+ (he's #3 all time among WAR for catchers).

Same for Bagwell, who took SEVEN turns on the ballot to get elected. Piazza? Four times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think Sosa and Palmeiro will only get in on a very cold day in hell. I don't see anyone making their case.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think Sosa and Palmeiro will only get in on a very cold day in hell. I don't see anyone making their case.

I think Palmeiro would've had a better chance had he not openly lied and pointed at congress, that he didn't do steroids only for him to ping a positive test a few days later. Felt like a scene out of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Personally, I'm against any of the 'cheaters' getting in...putting them on the same level of honor as someone like Hank Aaron is just WRONG.

Remember, it's an honor, not a right.

If they ever get in, it should be posthumously...or at least after I'M DEAD!


.

Originally Posted by Seven

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I totally understand where you're coming from, and I respect that opinion. I fully agree, it should be an honor, and not a right.

To be frank, however, the sanctity of the Hall has long since been violated in my opinion. Cheaters are already in, cheaters will continue to get in, long after we are all gone.

But, this is how standards get eroded, one negative step at a time...viewing past errors as acceptable.