The Mets - Same crap as the last crap

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Lot of Met fans who hate Beltran or Carlos Delgado will wax poetic about Joe McEwing. Twisted fan base in a lot of ways.

That feels like a (very) invented argument. Don't know many Mets fans that don't love Delgado, don't know many that love McEwing. Beltran, on the other hand, was a fine player. He'll always get heat in my view for leaving his bat on his shoulder for one of the more important at bats in Mets history. That is what it is. His Astros nonsense doesn't help either. With respect to Lindor, it's hard to judge a fan base that isn't happy with a guy who hit .235 his first full year as a Met and is hitting .215 this year. That's just gross and that, along with his OPS numbers, are a far cry from what he used to do. A fine player but leading this franchise to a pennant does not seem to be in the cards. Mets need to focus on developing talent and not trading for and then signing players that another team is more than willing to give up. Cleveland does not regret trading Lindor. I guarantee it.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Lindor's a good scapegoat due to the contract but he's been fine. I'm just glad we didn't sign Correa! Best move the Mets have made in years

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lindor's a good scapegoat due to the contract but he's been fine. I'm just glad we didn't sign Correa! Best move the Mets have made in years

Bobby,

Not sure how old you are, but do you remember when Bud Harrelson was an All Star SS for the Mets, now a member of the Mets Hall of Fame, and he hit 7 HRs in 16 years. Averaged like 25 RBI for a season.

Just sayin.

Yes, Lindor has been a complete and utter embarassment.

[Snapolit1]

Beltran

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...been-justified

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bobby,

Not sure how old you are, but do you remember when Bud Harrelson was an All Star SS for the Mets, now a member of the Mets Hall of Fame, and he hit 7 HRs in 16 years. Averaged like 25 RBI for a season.

Just sayin.

Yes, Lindor has been a complete and utter embarassment.

Love for Harrelson probably has nothing to do with this:

“Harrelson is the only person to take part in both of the Mets' World Series championships and appear in the first three world series for the team; he won in 1969 and appeared in the 1973 World Series as a player and in 1986 as a coach. Harrelson is also the only person in Mets franchise history to have appeared in four playoff seasons; as a player in 1969 and 1973; and as a coach in 1986 and 1988.“

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bobby,

Not sure how old you are, but do you remember when Bud Harrelson was an All Star SS for the Mets, now a member of the Mets Hall of Fame, and he hit 7 HRs in 16 years. Averaged like 25 RBI for a season.

Just sayin.

Yes, Lindor has been a complete and utter embarassment.

I'm old enough to remember Harrelson the manager, but not the player

[tod41]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Lot of Met fans who hate Beltran or Carlos Delgado will wax poetic about Joe McEwing. Twisted fan base in a lot of ways.

Ridiculous. No Mets fan ever said that. Lindor has a 726 OPS for a number 3 hitter and the supposed star player. He is a big problem. He is a very good fielder that is durable. He is not the impact player that Piazza and Beltran were and there is 8 years left of this.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tod41

Ridiculous. No Mets fan ever said that. Lindor has a 726 OPS for a number 3 hitter and the supposed star player. He is a big problem. He is a very good fielder that is durable. He is not the impact player that Piazza and Beltran were and there is 8 years left of this.

Well Said.

And for me different times and different conversations. Lindor is not living up to his contract but even if he was the team would still be bad. The issues are still how the team was built (Eppler bad job), the performance of many players(Sherzer, Verlander, etc etc), and even the managing has not been up to par. Even the lack of hustles, the lack of discipline the little things.

In the end they can turn it around but We are not expecting it.

They should be sellers leading up to the trade deadline and make space for new players for next year.

Sadly

[Snapolit1]

I'm old enough to remember when people bitched incessanrtly about Piazza. For years. He was never very good until he retired.

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Well Said.

And for me different times and different conversations. Lindor is not living up to his contract but even if he was the team would still be bad. The issues are still how the team was built (Eppler bad job), the performance of many players(Sherzer, Verlander, etc etc), and even the managing has not been up to par. Even the lack of hustles, the lack of discipline the little things.

In the end they can turn it around but We are not expecting it.

They should be sellers leading up to the trade deadline and make space for new players for next year.

Sadly

[Snapolit1]

Yeah, no Mets fan every talked about how special Joe McEwing was. Not one. Never happened. Not one guy.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...c-new-york-met

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Well Said.

And for me different times and different conversations. Lindor is not living up to his contract but even if he was the team would still be bad. The issues are still how the team was built (Eppler bad job), the performance of many players(Sherzer, Verlander, etc etc), and even the managing has not been up to par. Even the lack of hustles, the lack of discipline the little things.

In the end they can turn it around but We are not expecting it.

They should be sellers leading up to the trade deadline and make space for new players for next year.

Sadly

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm old enough to remember when people bitched incessanrtly about Piazza. For years. He was never very good until he retired.

Fans booed Piazza a lot during his first season, its funny how some fans forget that or even denied that it happened.

[Jim65]

Steve Cohen felt he needed to sign Lindor to send a message that the Wilpons were not running the team anymore.

Fans can't see past the contract and will always use that to trash Lindor. The contract does not stop the Mets from signing other players, evidenced by the Carlos Correa contract. Why do fans care so much about a players salary? If Lindor was making $10M, fans would love him.

[TUM301]

The Mets remind me of the Snyder/Redskins days when they just threw truck loads pf money around. Side note, thought they should have gone all in on Mookie Betts. Could they have signed him, who knows, but he`d surely have helped a great deal.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by TUM301

The Mets remind me of the Snyder/Redskins days when they just threw truck loads pf money around. Side note, thought they should have gone all in on Mookie Betts. Could they have signed him, who knows, but he`d surely have helped a great deal.

The Wilpons owned the Mets at that time and they never would've paid Betts.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Fans booed Piazza a lot during his first season, its funny how some fans forget that or even denied that it happened.

It's not about what fans did - it's about what Pizza did. Lindor was paid like he was an impact superstar player which he is clearly not. Piazza, for the most part, delivered.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm old enough to remember when people bitched incessanrtly about Piazza. For years. He was never very good until he retired.

Irrelevant. Has Lindor played like Piazza did from 98 to 01?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by tod41

It's not about what fans did - it's about what Pizza did. Lindor was paid like he was an impact superstar player which he is clearly not. Piazza, for the most part, delivered.

Honestly, I do not care what Lindor makes,it has no effect on signing other players so its irrelevant.

Lindor was an impact player last year and is on pace for 30 HR/ 100 RBI this year and plays good defense. How many shortstops will have those numbers?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Honestly, I do not care what Lindor makes,it has no effect on signing other players so its irrelevant.

Lindor was an impact player last year and is on pace for 30 HR/ 100 RBI this year and plays good defense. How many shortstops will have those numbers?

He’s also on pace for the most strikeouts in his career (by far), the lowest batting average in his career, and the second lowest ops in his career (the only season lower being his first season as a Met).

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Carter08

He’s also on pace for the most strikeouts in his career (by far), the lowest batting average in his career, and the second lowest ops in his career (the only season lower being his first season as a Met).

His BA doesn't bother me, he's hitting .277 w/.878 OPS with RISP and .286 w/.875 OPS with RISP and 2 outs, thats more important to me.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Jim65

His BA doesn't bother me, he's hitting .277 w/.878 OPS with RISP and .286 w/.875 OPS with RISP and 2 outs, thats more important to me.

There’s a point where the batting average and on base percentage is so low that he’s not creating RISP for others, especially since he’s locked in at the top of the order. Hitting .218 is too low for a third batter in my opinion.

[BobbyStrawberry]

At least they finally got rid of Escobar. Time to move some more dead weight!!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

At least they finally got rid of Escobar. Time to move some more dead weight!!

Was happy to see him go and they got some minor leaguers hopefully they are good and will grow with the organization over time. I think they said they were both in the 18-20 range in LA’s minor league system. So nothing glamorous and potentially nothing for the major leagues for a few years.

The bigger issue is the overall lack of offense. Verlander pitched 5 shit out innnings and the team lost.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Was happy to see him go and they got some minor leaguers hopefully they are good and will grow with the organization over time. I think they said they were both in the 18-20 range in LA’s minor league system. So nothing glamorous and potentially nothing for the major leagues for a few years.

The bigger issue is the overall lack of offense. Verlander pitched 5 shit out innnings and the team lost.

And the bullpen, which I think of truly horrific, actually pitched just fine. This just strikes me as a team that won’t put things together. They’ll score 9 in an 11-9 loss or score nothing when the pitchers actually show up. That strikes me as a symptom of purchased guys. Love some of the young guns coming up. Think long term and get prospects that can develop rather than a bunch of older players that you’re locking in for their worst seasons at huge money.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Was happy to see him go and they got some minor leaguers hopefully they are good and will grow with the organization over time. I think they said they were both in the 18-20 range in LA’s minor league system. So nothing glamorous and potentially nothing for the major leagues for a few years.

The bigger issue is the overall lack of offense. Verlander pitched 5 shit out innnings and the team lost.

I agree. And with their bullpen stretched to the limit, Buck uses their best guys in games they're losing and then they aren't available when they're winning!!

[mrreality68]

and we can all criticize Lindor all we want and his low average but he is one the top offensive Shortstops at the moment with his HR's and RBI's

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

and we can all criticize Lindor all we want and his low average but he is one the top offensive Shortstops at the moment with his HR's and RBI's

There are at least 5 guys I think are legitimately better at his very position. The position is loaded. He has not made an all star team as Met (and didn’t at the end of his Cleveland career) and he will not make it this year. Those are not a great signs for your flagship, highest paid offensive player player.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Carter08

There are at least 5 guys I think are legitimately better at his very position. The position is loaded. He has not made an all star team as Met (and didn’t at the end of his Cleveland career) and he will not make it this year. Those are not a great signs for your flagship, highest paid offensive player player.

You are right the position is stacked and I agree he has not lived up to his contract
But amongst all MLB shortstops
#1 in Home Runs with 16
#1 in RBI with 54
#1 in Runs with 46
# 3 total bases with 134
#6 in WAR at 2.4

So his batting average sucks but

So position might be stack but offense wise he is producing compared to his Shortstop peers
And defensively he is still solid

And more importantly his lousy contract looks better then some of the other Shortstops that got monster contracts also

[BobbyStrawberry]

Gary and Keith talking about what happens if Ohtani comes to the Mets. Imagine him wanting to join this dumpster fire!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Gary and Keith talking about what happens if Ohtani comes to the Mets. Imagine him wanting to join this dumpster fire!

Time for the SF Giants to pony up 400m for Ohtani after dodging the Correa bullet.

[TUM301]

Who knows but hearing the number being thrown around is 600 for 10. Pretty soon we`ll be talking NBA money !

[cgjackson222]

Alvarez seems to be getting stronger as the year has progressed. And he has been clutch. I like what I see.

According to Sarah Langs of MLB.com, Alvarez now has five game-tying or game-winning home runs in the sixth inning or later, which is the most in MLB.

Alvarez now has more HRs (16) than any other catcher in baseball this year.

He has two 3 game series this year with 3 Home Runs. The only other Mets Rookie to even have one 3 game series with 3 Home Runs was Larry Elliot in 1964.

He is 21 years old.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Alvarez seems to be getting stronger as the year has progressed. And he has been clutch. I like what I see.

According to Sarah Langs of MLB.com, Alvarez now has five game-tying or game-winning home runs in the sixth inning or later, which is the most in MLB.

Alvarez now has more HRs (16) than any other catcher in baseball this year.

He has two 3 game series this year with 3 Home Runs. The only other Mets Rookie to even have one 3 game series with 3 Home Runs was Larry Elliot in 1964.

He is 21 years old.

He is currently one of their very few shining lights. He has been clutch and he seams to have the qualities to be a star.
Even the way he responded to when he was thrown at and hit on the wrist was like a pro.

On the flip side 5 game winning streak. Looking good but sadly still looking 5 games under .500 and a lifetime away from the Division lead and/or the wild card

[cgjackson222]

After Francisco Alvarez' 2 HRs last night, he has 19 HRs in 219 at bats.

I believe he is #2 in MLB with a HR rate of 8.6% or 11.5 at bats per HR.

The only guy ahead of him is Ohtani, with a HR rate 9.6% or 10.34 at bats per HR.

Aaron Judge last year had a HR rate of 10.8% or 9.19 at bats per HR.

The most HRs by a catcher age 21 or younger is 26 by Johnny Bench.

Alvarez is tied with Josh Jung for most HRs by a 2023 Rookie and is 1 ahead of Corbin Carrol. Carrol and Jung each have more than 100 at bats than Alvarez.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

After Francisco Alvarez' 2 HRs last night, he has 19 HRs in 219 at bats.

I believe he is #2 in MLB with a HR rate of 8.6% or 11.5 at bats per HR.

The only guy ahead of him is Ohtani, with a HR rate 9.6% or 10.34 at bats per HR.

Aaron Judge last year had a HR rate of 10.8% or 9.19 at bats per HR.

The most HRs by a catcher age 21 or younger is 26 by Johnny Bench.

Alvarez is tied with Josh Jung for most HRs by a 2023 Rookie and is 1 ahead of Corbin Carrol. Carrol and Jung each have more than 100 at bats than Alvarez.

He is one of the rare Bright spots for the Mets. He looks like he is the real deal and hope he continues to grow and prosper.

more interesting stuff

He leads all Catchers YTD with 19 Home Runs but needs to get his Batting average a bit higher and On Base Percentage to have even more impact.

Be fun to watch him

As for the rest of the team....????

[cgjackson222]

I would have liked to see Scherzer (assuming he doesn't utilize his no-trade clause) and Peterson compete the remainder of the season to see if they can sneak into the Wild Card spot.

But at least the Mets are getting some young prospects in exchange for their pitching stars from the Marlins and Rangers.

Let's face it, the Mets were too old.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Great move for the Mets. Scherzer on the decline and should be even worse with Texas.

2 prospects is good. 3 would've been a home run.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I would have liked to see Scherzer (assuming he doesn't utilize his no-trade clause) and Peterson compete the remainder of the season to see if they can sneak into the Wild Card spot.

But at least the Mets are getting some young prospects in exchange for their pitching stars from the Marlins and Rangers.

Let's face it, the Mets were too old.

As someone who has watched them all year, they were not making the wildcard. Just my opinion as a traumatized Mets fan

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

As someone who has watched them all year, they were not making the wildcard. Just my opinion as a traumatized Mets fan

Ya Gotta Believe

They had a close to zero % chance, but anything is possible

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Ya Gotta Believe

They had a close to zero % chance, but anything is possible

I blame Lindor for not buying McNeil that car. Jerk move

[mrreality68]

Supposedly from Texas they are getting Acuna’s little brother Luisangel Acuna looks like a good prospect with some power and really good speed. Stole over 40 bases each year the last 2 years. That would be really good.
They just finalizing how much money the Mets will give Texas and then they have to get league approval if the money is over $2 million

They mentioned a lower level prospect also but did not say who yet

[mrreality68]

Not sure I like the deal.

Acuna is really good prospect but the Mets are giving over 36 million dollars and only getting 1 prospect.
So Texas gets Max for this year and next and only give up 1 prospect and not even one of their top prospects(Texas had a deep farm system). So Texas is setup especially with Degrom out till next August.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I'm curious who will be next...Verlander? Pham and Canha should be traded too.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Serious question: not that I’d trust Eppler, but when do you start entertaining trade talk for Scherzer and Verlander ?

Good work, guys.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by bobbystrawberry

i'm curious who will be next...verlander? Pham and canha should be traded too.

100%

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I blame Lindor for not buying McNeil that car. Jerk move

Just weird that someone hasn’t said to him that it looks weird for team chemistry that it’s even a story so just do it. This is a guy that gave thumbs down to the fans his first year with the team though. He gets a lot of props from people for saying the right things and having a positive attitude but he does some seriously questionable stuff too, in addition to sucking at getting hits on the regular. God I want the Mets to be good but I don’t think Lindor on a long term contract helps with that.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Just weird that someone hasn’t said to him that it looks weird for team chemistry that it’s even a story so just do it. This is a guy that gave thumbs down to the fans his first year with the team though. He gets a lot of props from people for saying the right things and having a positive attitude but he does some seriously questionable stuff too, in addition to sucking at getting hits on the regular. God I want the Mets to be good but I don’t think Lindor on a long term contract helps with that.

I agree totally that it's a bad look. Lindor is the better overall player, but as a fan, I like watching McNeil a lot more. The guy moves all around the field as needed and always gives 100%

[D. Bergin]

Maybe McNeil is exacting his revenge on Lindor (and the Mets) by signing a medium term contract with the Mets and being roughly 25% as valuable as Lindor (at least via the WAR stat) in the field.

Just sayin’.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Maybe McNeil is exacting his revenge on Lindor (and the Mets) by signing a medium term contract with the Mets and being roughly 25% as valuable as Lindor (at least via the WAR stat) in the field.

Just sayin’.

Zero doubt in my mind on March 1 that, if this season went in the shitter, which it has, 70% of Met fans will blame Lindor for it first and foremost. Zero doubt. I hear 1 McNeill complaint for every 500 Lindor complaints. Maybe 4 Pete complaints for every 500 Lindor complaints. Odd dynamic. Struggling to figure out why that is. (Well, not really.) Sure Lindor is overpaid. Owner is like the 18th wealthiest person in the country. Why would anyone care what any of these guys are getting paid? Do folks lose sleep over Cohens $200 million art purchases too? Only a certain type of guy who fans care about overpaid. Certainly not Scherzer. Guy is getting paid I think $25 million from 3 different clubs this year. Haven't heard one person raise an issue on his paycheck.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Zero doubt in my mind on March 1 that, if this season went in the shitter, which it has, 70% of Met fans will blame Lindor for it first and foremost. Zero doubt. I hear 1 McNeill complaint for every 500 Lindor complaints. Maybe 4 Pete complaints for every 500 Lindor complaints. Odd dynamic. Struggling to figure out why that is. (Well, not really.) Sure Lindor is overpaid. Owner is like the 18th wealthiest person in the country. Why would anyone care what any of these guys are getting paid? Do folks lose sleep over Cohens $200 million art purchases too? Only a certain type of guy who fans care about overpaid. Certainly not Scherzer. Guy is getting paid I think $25 million from 3 different clubs this year. Haven't heard one person raise an issue on his paycheck.

Lindor was all star level with Cleveland until his last year with them. We gave up good players and brought him over to be one with the Mets. It was players and then a huge contract. He hasn’t been nearly as good as he was with Cleveland. Cleveland saw the decline and was thrilled to get what they did for him. Ask any Cleveland fan if they miss him. Not sure why you seem to want Mets fans to be happy about this.

[packs]

Kind fo a weird trade for the Mets with Lindor under contract for so long. They also haven't gotten to Mauricio yet, though I guess he plays some 2B too and they just drafted shortstop Jett Williams in the first round in 2022.