Red Cross - Is it really a Louisiana exclusive?

[RCMcKenzie]

I have not associated the N cards with T215. I have not heard that the N226 cards are found in LA.

T215 are so rare, that it's hard to say there are a lot from LA. I have always heard that T215 are found in LA. T219 RC are also rare. I think gfg recently bought a large collection from a guy in LA. I think we both grabbed some from that sale.

For T213, even today, they pop up in LA and East Texas, and were certainly originally offered there.

A board member found more than half the known T207 RC from a guy in Baton Rouge around 2010. REA sold them as the "Louisiana Find".

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I have not associated the N cards with T215. I have not heard that the N226 cards are found in LA.

T215 are so rare, that it's hard to say there are a lot from LA. I have always heard that T215 are found in LA. T219 RC are also rare. I think gfg recently bought a large collection from a guy in LA. I think we both grabbed some from that sale.

For T213, even today, they pop up in LA and East Texas, and were certainly originally offered there.

A board member found more than half the known T207 RC from a guy in Baton Rouge around 2010. REA sold them as the "Louisiana Find".

The N cards were issued by the same brand that issued T215; it's the same Red Cross. I have not heard regional claims for them; in large part I suspect because less claims are made and become hobby fact about sets that do not feature base ball players.

I have no doubt T215 and T219 were issued in Louisiana. I have some doubts they were issued exclusively in Louisiana, or very close to its borders, as is normally said, as it is not a regional branding in 1911 as has always been said. I bought most of the cards from Dave's find that were sold; I think every card you didn't. I know I talked with Dave about it on the phone for awhile but I don't remember the state of origin of the walk-in. May well have been LA.

T213 I have never researched. ATC's brand managers do not own all brands at X factory; so they may or may not be related in the organization.

The T207 may well be a very small geography if even issued properly at all. This one I think is much more likely to be a weird ATC 'rule-breaking' distribution.

[RCMcKenzie]

Call Dave and ask him. Maybe I misunderstood what he said to me.

Here's why I brought up T213 when you talk about Red Cross. T213-2, T215-2, and T214 have blue captions. What do you make of that. Why aren't the Tri-state East Coast old-timers jumping in and saying, "Rob is wrong, Red Cross, Coupon, and Victory with the blue cations were always there at the Philly Show."

[jingram058]

I used to smoke, rather heavily before I went into the Navy and early on in the Navy. My first ship, USS Midway CV-41, I think EVERYONE on that ship smoked, officers and enlisted. Hell, if you didn't smoke, and drink on liberty, you were looked on very carefully. "What's wrong with that guy?" You lived for the "smoking lamp" to be re-lit. It was out throughout the ship while transferring fuel, during unreps alongside an oiler. There were no women on that ship, or any other ship in the Navy other than tenders, at that time, early 1980s. Because of working during flight ops, it was pretty much impossible to get to the mess decks for chow. My healthy diet consisted of coffee, "Cup Noodles" ramen, and cigarettes. The cigarettes of choice were Marlboro reds, 35 cents a pack, $3.50 a carton, in the aft smoke shop or main deck ship's store.

Shift gears to the early 1990s, Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm and Operation Southern Watch in the Persian Gulf on USS Independence CV-62. You could still smoke, but while I was serving on that bird farm, the smoking policy changed from all authorized spaces to only designated places outside, i.e., sponsons. I now saw women occasionally; aviators who would fly out for "car quals" (arrested landings and cat launches) and sometimes have to remain on board overnight. Because I was now a 1st Class Petty Officer, a supervisor, I could now eat regular meals. And I cut way back on my smoking.

Now shift again to USS George Washington CVN-73. A new ship, and women all over the ship. The policy now is the smoking lamp is out. Now I am an officer, LT(jg), and I stand bridge watches and qualify as OOD (officer of the deck) underway. Now I have to set the example. Everything the enlisted people have to do, I have to do, only better. Otherwise, how can they have any real respect? My smoking and drinking days are far behind me. Now, instead of smoking, physical fitness is the thing during hours not on watch; running laps on the flight deck, push-ups, sit-ups, etc.

At some point before I quit "cold turkey" smoking altogether, I changed from strictly Marlboros to the occasional pack of Newports. Those cigarettes were made by Lorillard. Still around since the days of t205, t206, t210 and t211.

[Pat R]

I'm not sure what cards they would be but these ads are from 1891

Red Cross The_Times_Democrat_Tue__Sep_1__1891_.jpg

Red Cross The_Times_Picayune_Tue__Sep_1__1891_.jpg

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I'm not sure what cards they would be but these ads are from 1891

Nice find. These must be the circus scenes or the actresses; the pugilists could not have appeared before 1893. Neither of these 2 sets are "cutout" in the sense they have cuts or are die-cut or are stand-up type cards. The subjects are portrayed without much of a background, so perhaps it is referring to that aesthetic of portrayal.

[brass_rat]

I have seven of these but only screenshots of two right now. I've only ever seen them once... All are non-sports but are really pretty.

I can get out and actually scan them at a later date.

Cheers,
Steve

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Here's why I brought up T213 when you talk about Red Cross. T213-2, T215-2, and T214 have blue captions. What do you make of that.

I make of it that the lithographer who did these and had one of the sets or the set of printing material from the original T206 runs made an aesthetic choice. I would think these are probably all from the same lithographer; ALC or the same partner.

If you are suggesting these blue caption cards are all related at a business level, I am not sure how a L&M brand and a Lorillard's brand would be working together as a department post-breakup, or how the color of the caption serves as a geographic key. During the ATC days (t213-1, T215-1) we know that all brands at a factory are not grouped together in the internal structure, nor does it relate to geographic end distribution. Grouping does not seem to relate to the production system much. For example, Mecca, Tolstoi and Lenox, at the time recently expanding from its launch in the Chicago territory (this is when we find geographic limits on ATC brands - when new brands are being launched and tested, not after decades of distribution), are a department in late 1910 with a shared manager.

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Why aren't the Tri-state East Coast old-timers jumping in and saying, "Rob is wrong, Red Cross, Coupon, and Victory with the blue cations were always there at the Philly Show."

I would suspect this crowd by and large agrees with you that it is a Louisiana regional exclusive - it is the conventional narrative precisely because the old-timers believe this. That, of course, is not evidence.

I have no real opinion as of yet. Primary source material strongly suggests that this was not a regional Louisiana brand, which would make it unreasonable not to examine the traditional claim. I hope to learn the evidentiary basis for the traditional claim. Wherever evidence leads, one should go.