Gone with the stain

[Jim65]

I always found it strange that some damaged antiques/collectibles gain value by being restored but restoring a baseball card is considered fraud.

I wouldn't want a restored card but I can see how others might not care, if the restoration is not detectable.

[ALR-bishop]

Butch— I never brush off wax residue. Not because someone might consider it an alteration but because a wax residue gives a card character. Same with gum stains. . Wax wrappers and gum. Great combo.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Butch— I never brush off wax residue. Not because someone might consider it an alteration but because a wax residue gives a card character. Same with gum stains. . Wax wrappers and gum. Great combo.

Understood. Well, I do and I don’t give it a second thought. Heck, I even did it when I bought cards way back in the 60s-70s. Mind you, I used a washcloth back then, not knowing about nylons at the time. But, I still did it. As for wax on the back of a card, I don’t care about them and it stays.

Edit: I miss the smell of the gum. Call me a card romantic.

:shrug:

Butch

[irv]

In my opinion, a "Doctored" card is one that has been trimmed, had corners repaired, had color added and creases and wrinkles pressed out.
Removing wax with nylons, removing cardboard/paper (due to being stuck in a scrap book) via soaking in water is not.

Read a gazillion of these backs and forths over the years and it will never be settled, never have an agreeable set of rules/guidelines.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by irv

In my opinion, a "Doctored" card is one that has been trimmed, had corners repaired, had color added and creases and wrinkles pressed out.
Removing wax with nylons, removing cardboard/paper (due to being stuck in a scrap book) via soaking in water is not.

Read a gazillion of these backs and forths over the years and it will never be settled, never have an agreeable set of rules/guidelines.

That's about where I land on this subject. There's a thousand "Well, what about....?" scenarios, but removing surface material that is not supposed to be on a card does not qualify as 'doctoring' IMO. Sort of like washing your car.

Just one collector's opinion.

[jchcollins]

Again, the whole thing just smacks so much of moot point to me. Even after a major scandal amongst graders / PWCC in 2020-21, we are back to business as usual. Stuff trumps all for the most part, assuming it's in a nice slab with a number grade. The graders aren't going after card doctors. The auction houses aren't going after card doctors. Those who would mobilize the wherewithal to go after them in the hobby simply don't exist in significant number. And whether or not what these folks are doing extends to "illegal" over and above just "immoral", the FBI and the federal government don't appear to be going after them either.

Seems the most we can do is talk about how bad / frustrating it all is. Repetitively.

[Exhibitman]

One thing no one seems to be talking about is that within our lifetimes, many of our cards will deteriorate to the point of no return unless they are properly conserved. That means de-acidified, cleaned of foreign materials, and stabilized. Most of our stuff was made using wood-based pulp that is rife with lignin and acids. Many 100-year-old strip cards, postcards and Exhibit cards are already quite brittle, and many prewar newsprint items are falling apart. I have boxing pieces that are nearly 200 years old and are fine because they were made with cotton rag paper, and I have thrown away wood-pulp based items that are falling apart after 100 years.

Is it going to be 'doctoring' if a collector takes steps to address these conditions with proper conservation techniques? Because if the answer is "yes", you better get ready to say goodbye to a lot of W cards, premiums and memorabilia.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I always found it strange that some damaged antiques/collectibles gain value by being restored but restoring a baseball card is considered fraud.

I wouldn't want a restored card but I can see how others might not care, if the restoration is not detectable.

The fraud is when the ‘restoration’ is not disclosed, as happens 99% of the time. The trimming and altering in and of itself isn’t.

[ALR-bishop]

If the listing says "For Sale As Is", is that disclosure ?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

If the listing says "For Sale As Is", is that disclosure ?

I recent one by a short time member. "It wasn't sold as unaltered".

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I recent one by a short time member. "It wasn't sold as unaltered".

It was a brilliant defense. Too bad he scarpered before giving us more in the way of explanation of his motives and the extent of his chicanery.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

It was a brilliant defense. Too bad he scarpered before giving us more in the way of explanation of his motives and the extent of his chicanery.

What chicanery? He didn't say they weren't altered