What are the odds?

[Vintagecatcher]

Jumping from team to team was quite common place in the minor leagues in 1910. Players also occasionally played under assumed names as well.

Because of these factors, early newspapers are invaluable in our attempt to help identify whether players may have actually played for a certain team in a given year.

In sets like the T210 Old Mill set, players sometimes are immortalized with having their picture on a baseball card. They were fortunate enough to have been with the team when the photos were taken. Unfortunately, they sometimes never officially make the team roster, and move on to other teams in the hope of "catching" on.

The 640 card Old Mill set was printed in 8 series... representing specific Southern Leagues.

Series 1: South Atlantic League
Series 2: Virginia League
Series 3: Texas League
Series 4: Virginia Valley League
Series 5: Carolina Association
Series 6: Blue Grass League
Series 7: East Carolina League
Series 8: Southern Association

Which brings me to my question:

Is it possible that certain players may have multiple T210 cards as they jumped from team to team and even league to league in their attempts to make team rosters?

The answer is absolutely... yes!

As the set was produced in the eight series, the photos were clearly taken a different times for each of the leagues. The multiple cards of the same players prove this to be true.

This possibility was brought to my attention when Tom Hufford responded to an earlier thread on July 2, 2018 with regards to helping me confirm the identity of a player MACCONACHIE, Norfolk (Series 2.)

https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=256849

To date, here are two T210 catchers that have two different cards for two different teams.

George Keifel has a Series 2 card catching for Richmond Colts (Virginia League) and a Series 6 card batting for the Lexington Colts (Blue Grass League.)

Gerald Oscar (G.O,) MacConachie also has a Series 2 catching card with the Norfolk Tars (Virginia League) and a Series 5 catching card with Winton-Salem (Carolina Association.)


How many other players have multiple cards?

Patrick

[FrankWakefield]

George Keifel... gotta love those Red Border cards, and I have a fondness for the Blue Grass League players.

Thanks for the post. There may be other 'two card' players.

[edjs]

Well, there’s always Van Landingham with Lexington and Shelbyville.

[Vintagecatcher]

Thanks gentlemen for your responses.

Looking to hear from the diehard T210 collectors as well.

Patrick

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Thanks gentlemen for your responses.

Looking to hear from the diehard T210 collectors as well.

Patrick

Man, I guess Frank and I aren’t diehard T210 collectors. 🤪

I think we need some cards.

[bnorth]

Yes pictures are always good.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Thanks gentlemen for your responses.

Looking to hear from the diehard T210 collectors as well.

Patrick

Not a diehard T210 collector, but is a diehard T211 collector close enough?

Between the 1910 and the 1911 issues the producers of the Obak cards decided to create new poses for any player in the 1910 set that had changed teams (and that they wanted to include in the 1911 set). There are 22 such instances between the two sets that have players that have changed teams, and thus have different poses in the 1911 set. They are:

Akin - 1910 Seattle NWL, 1911 LA PCL
Bennett - 1910 Seattle NWL, 1911 Vancouver NWL
N.Brashear - 1910 Vernon PCL, 1911 Vancouver NWL
Casey - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 Portland NWL
Castleton - 1910 LA PCL, 1911 Vernon PCL
Coy - 1910 Vernon PCL, 1911 Oakland PCL
Davis - 1910 Spokane NWL, 1911 Victoria NWL
Frisk - 1910 Seattle NWL, 1911 Spokane NWL
Garrett - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 Portland NWL
Hetling - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 Oakland PCL
Mundorff - 1910 San Francisco PCL, 1911 Portland NWL
Netzel - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 Spokane NWL
Raymer - 1910 Sacramento PCL, 1911 Victoria NWL
D.Ryan - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 San Francisco PCL
Speas - 1910 Portland PCL, 1911 Portland NWL
Spiesman - 1910 Oakland PCL, 1911 Vancouver NWL
Starkell - 1910 Tacoma NWL, 1911 Victoria NWL
Stewart - 1910 San Francisco PCL, 1911 Vernon PCL
Thomas - 1910 Oakland PCL, 1911 Sacramento PCL
Thompson - 1910 Seattle NWL, 1911 Sacramento PCL
Weed - 1910 Spokane NWL, 1911 Seattle NWL
Williams - 1910 San Francisco PCL, 1911 Portland NWL

Here are the only six players that are present in each of the 1909, 1910 and 1911 sets. Note that all six are designated for the same team in the 1909 and 1910 issues, so there are no trifectas that exist with same player, three different team designations.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Mr. Pouty Mulldowney is not too pleased that the clown posting above nonsensically introduced icky T211 Obaks into a T210 Old Mill thread.

Brian

[edjs]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Mr. Pouty Mulldowney is not too pleased that the clown posting above nonsensically introduced icky T211 Obaks into a T210 Old Mill thread.

Brian

Not only that, but he called them t211s. I mean, really man, T212s, Brian, T212s…🤬

[edjs]

Sorry, Patrick, I steered this off course. Here’s the Van Landingham, I haven’t scanned my Lexington yet, but I lifted from the auction photo.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by edjs

Not only that, but he called them t211s. I mean, really man, T212s, Brian, T212s…🤬

Unfortunately it is not once in a blue moon that the aforementioned clown has identified Obak cards using the Red Sun ACC designation.

Dutch Jordan decided to pop in to confirm the correct type of card for the T211 ACC designation.

Brian (please...other folks help out Patrick with his T210 inquiry. Do not follow my lead, and please prevent me from showing a T213 Coupon card next)

[Vintagecatcher]

Frank and Ed,

No slight intended towards you fine gentlemen.

I was simply trying to get a reponse from Ben and Jason, who I know have the T210 Red Border fever like me.

Appreciate any and all feedback!


Patrick

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Frank and Ed,

No slight intended towards you fine gentlemen.

I was simply trying to get a reponse from Ben and Jason, who I know have the T210 Red Border fever like me.

Appreciate any and all feedback!


Patrick

Weirdly I just collect them and know nothing about the players. I just love how they look. Since we need more card pics I just bought this one yesterday.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Frank and Ed,

No slight intended towards you fine gentlemen.

I was simply trying to get a reponse from Ben and Jason, who I know have the T210 Red Border fever like me.

Appreciate any and all feedback!


Patrick

Patrick,
No offense taken. In reality, I was trying to elicit a response from Frank with my Whitaker card. I wanted to see if he would still dance at someone’s wedding and play the tambourine for one. I don’t yet have Angermeier fielding to tempt him with.

[nolemmings]

Very interesting topic Patrick. It would be great to see a list of all players shown with multiple teams, if only to get a better idea of when each series was photographed and/or produced. For example, I looked into George Keifel, whose cards you posted, and determined that he was no longer with Richmond and onto Lexington around the first week of July, suggesting that series 2 preceded series 6, which I think may have been discussed in prior threads.

Keifel is also interesting to me in that he was moved to Portsmouth in about June 1910 but claimed to have a major health issue that prevented him from playing, only to reappear with Richmond later that month with a doctor's note saying he was good to go. Portsmouth claimed that he had lied all along and was in cahoots with the Colts. Richmond denied this but their papers reported that it would be a bad look to keep the player, which likely explains his movement in July. BTW, Portsmouth went under and moved to Petersburg that same month of July. Series 2 has all players from that squad designated with Portsmouth:


Finally, Vallandingham (misspelled Van Landingham on both posted cards) did not join Lexington until after July 11, meaning Series 6 was distributed after that date. Notably, both of the teams he appeared for played in the Bluegrass League, suggesting that the teams in that circuit were photographed at different times and were perhaps distributed during different times as well.

Thanks for posting.

[Jeff_cvc]

Todd, great Keifel story, thanks for sharing. My Keifel card:
2A9355AE-4FC2-4E97-B108-EB090FE7E83E.jpeg

Ben, I’m with you. I don’t know much about the t210’s, but love the look and obscurity of many of the players. I also like the crossover of the t206 Southern League players. My SL crossover cards:
7C1CAC6A-5F43-4D32-BB4A-52F79CDD7180.jpeg
84F628FB-1FFE-4682-8B04-D27FF1F370A2.jpeg

Lastly, I can’t believe I didn’t notice this before. Well, actually I can, I’m not the sharpest tool in the box. The Lipe card uses the same picture in both sets, they just made some alterations.
D69700D6-3C31-4BCF-A092-5EB08ABD6891.jpeg
7CB38238-2D83-475F-8BEF-74B8E86183E1.jpeg