Sticker price at card shows

[parkplace33]

Interesting video that came out this week of cards at a baseball card show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsTpUa4mOgY

I like these kinds of videos. My question is if you see a sticker price at a show and you want to make an offer, what percent do you offer? I feel like i would offer at least 80 percent of the price or wouldn't offer anything at all.

[Johnny630]

I’ve noticed over the past 6 months at the major shows some regular dealers Have way over retail sticker prices on the same cards. Idk if they’re there to make money or show and talk idk some dealers I think just come for the thrill or the chance someone walks in with a raw or graded deal. Most of them go to auction houses set up at the shows so IDK. I think it’s the chance and the fun of the show.

[raulus]

How badly do you want it??!!

As others have noted in several other treads over the last few weeks, if the item is rare enough and you want it badly enough, then pay the man!!!

But outside of those situations, it seems like offering market price is going to be the logical choice. I suppose if you're dealing with a prickly dealer, then maybe you have to consider whether to just walk away rather than offer anything if the asking price is so far disconnected from market that you're likely to get heaps of abuse by making your offer.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'm so glad that shows are not necessary anymore if you don't want them to be. They were incredibly fun 30+ years ago, but so were many other things.

[G1911]

If it's a dealer I do not know, I just skip their table and move on if I'm not within 30%. If it's a dealer I do know, I adjust that scale to reflect their style and what it takes to reach market. Some guys are pricing way over expecting a big negotiation, some will only waver 5-10% because they've priced more fairly. I make sure my offer is around market going rate, and pull up comps to validate it's about right. I have one dealer I just pay whatever he asks me for on the things he's set aside for me and don't even look at the card because I know he's fair, if anything he cuts me a deal.

Shows are great because you get to actually see the card. Pretty much everything is common material though, not going to find the things hanging on my want list because I can't find a copy. I fill out my Topps, Bowman, modern at shows, not my priority list.

[steve B]

I don't usually go for expensive stuff, so the difference between a regular price and what I might pay is pretty small. If I think a card is a good deal, I don't try to negotiate, and if it's not a good deal I usually just pass it by.

Most dealers end up giving me something off, probably because I usually make it an easy deal. Card marked at 40? Ok I'll take it. Sometimes at 40 they don't give any discount, since they'd have to make change. But at 45? Or two cards, One at 40 and one at 5? Usually they just say ok, how about 40.

[drcy]

Perhaps for some shows are seen as advertising.

[mq711]

Of course it depends on the card and how badly one wants it, that said a PSA7 should fall somewhere between a 6-8 as far as offers or listings.A “lucky” 7 should go substantially below a great for the grade 7, some dealers others want to break a record with every sale.

[JustinD]

Shows have become a true waste of my time with all the new get rich quick kids setting up tables. If I feel like window shopping I’ll go to a museum.

I honestly expect a discount at shows and I don’t feel that unreasonable. You do have a table fee, but you are skipping on eBay or auction fees, PayPal fees and shipping costs. I damn well know that an overwhelming number of sellers are not reporting those cash sales and skipping out on the 1099 that eBay will provide. Also, the buyer not paying sales tax or an auction premium brings the offers up.

I guess it’s still fun to occasionally poke around in boxes, especially if you have a kid with you. I rarely find anything rare enough to consider as it’s more commonly modern leftovers from YouTube box breaking. So other than the passing fun of the initial walk around, I have a hard time justifying the drive.

[ejstel]

Hard to super discount the 40-70s key legends as someone else will come along at a show in 15 minutes (medium stars= yes...discount)

As a buyer xombos seem to always work with dealers.

I heard a dealer at chantilly show have a great comeback when asked "what's your lowest price on the psa 6 1958 mantle"...dealer replied " what would it take to get you into a 1958 psa mantle ".......both buyer and dealer were smiling

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[notfast]

If your sticker prices are way over what stuff is worth, I don’t waste my time to talk to you.

Not sure what the OP is asking as there is no set amount to offer based on a sticker price.

[Eric72]

The following is just a general rule of thumb. As with everything else in life, there are exceptions to the rule.

If a sticker price is more than 25% or so above what I'm willing to pay, I don't even bother negotiating.

Let's say there's a card I would pay no more than $200 for.

• If the dealer has it marked at $250 or so, I'll start a conversation.
• If the dealer has it marked at $300 or more, I'll just keep walking.

Sure, I'll occasionally miss out on something. From my experience, though, I'd lose a ton of time trying to find dealers willing to slash their sticker prices.

[NiceDocter]

Ive had my best deals when I buy a pile of stuff and usually get a pretty good deal off of "retail".... remember, the dealers for the most part are looking to move the merchandise and like it when you buy a bunch...... but then theres the guys you see over and over and over with the same stuff for the last 5 years....... I guess they just like getting out of the house to sit at a card show because it sure doesnt look like anything is being sold!!!! LOL In any event, be respectful whether a deal is made or not. No need for anger or insults although Ive witnessed those on occasion ( not personally involved ! )

[Johnny630]

Raw collector grade is what’s being bought at shows these days. Graded is not selling at dealers asking prices, specifically higher grade, they’re not being bought buy people coming to shows. The days of 2021 are over. If you want high auction house comps on graded cards you’re going have to give it to an AH to get those numbers. How many are going to roll the dice ? How many will sit on it and bring it to show after show after show.

[Exhibitman]

Don't offer anything. Ask the dealer to make the offer. Make him bid against himself. You will be surprised how many dealers will knock off a substantial sum from the sticker price, especially if prices on the card are stagnant and the card is relatively easy to find. I like to go with "what is the absolute lowest price you will accept for this card?" See what happens. Better than dickering.

That said, don't expect much movement on a card that is iconic, soaring in price or a rare one. No need to discount those. Last show I did some guy wanted me to discount a rare boxing card. No thanks. I can't just find another one on eBay. I think many dealers will hold a genuinely rare card until they get their price. I know I will.

[Jewish-collector]

I just love when the dealer says, "Let me look to see what I have into it". If I wasn't such a nice guy, I would respond back, "I don't care WTF you have into it.

[chalupacollects]

Even if cards are marked, I'll always ask the price. Sometimes those stickers have been there for years and if the dealer says as marked then we can start a conversation. Most times I'll get a better number than the sticker price...

[Johnny630]

I heard from a few predominantly raw dealers this weekend who are set up at Chantilly show. I was told that raw vintage is selling really well to collectors, cards $75 bucks and lower. He further said when he walked around and looked at others tables with graded, they had little to no business. Way over priced.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I heard from a few predominantly raw dealers this weekend who are set up at Chantilly show. I was told that raw vintage is selling really well to collectors, cards $75 bucks and lower. He further said when he walked around and looked at others tables with graded, they had little to no business. Way over priced.

I was at Chantilly Saturday. In speaking with some dealers and watching the tables/traffic, it appears that it was a slow show for most pre-war and vintage dealers selling graded cards. One dealer-friend, who has an amazing assortment of 1950-60 key-cards, told me Chantilly was very slow, coming off a Philly show he thought was slow. He said he may take some shows off in this economy. I do think things at shows may indeed be slowing.

I collect exclusively prewar. Almost everything pre war I saw at Chantilly (and Philly before that) was overpriced to stupid-overpriced. No wonder dealers appear to be having slow shows. Sometimes I wonder if dealers are really actually trying to sell cards. Some are for sure, but others have sticker-prices that are so ludicrous that I wonder if they are just fishing for suckers. When I walk by the table and see a stupid price on a card, I don't even bother to ask. I imagine I am not alone.

Juxtapose card shows to AHs, which seem to be business and usual when it comes to solid prewar sales results. I dont think most things are still setting records with each new auction, but there are many bidders and prices are solid. Perhaps prewar collectors are deciding to forgo shows and obnoxious sticker/asking prices for acquisitions from the comfort of their homes.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I was at Chantilly Saturday. In speaking with some dealers and watching the tables/traffic, it appears that it was a slow show for most pre-war and vintage dealers selling graded cards. One dealer-friend, who has an amazing assortment of 1950-60 key-cards, told me Chantilly was very slow, coming off a Philly show he thought was slow. He said he may take some shows off in this economy. I do think things at shows may indeed be slowing.

I collect exclusively prewar. Almost everything pre war I saw at Chantilly (and Philly before that) was overpriced to stupid-overpriced. No wonder dealers appear to be having slow shows. Sometimes I wonder if dealers are really actually trying to sell cards. Some are for sure, but others have sticker-prices that are so ludicrous that I wonder if they are just fishing for suckers. When I walk by the table and see a stupid price on a card, I don't even bother to ask. I imagine I am not alone.

Juxtapose card shows to AHs, which seem to be business and usual when it comes to solid prewar sales results. I dont think most things are still setting records with each new auction, but there are many bidders and prices are solid. Perhaps prewar collectors are deciding to forgo shows and obnoxious sticker/asking prices for acquisitions from the comfort of their homes.

Not having been at the show, it's hard for me to imagine. But you mentioned items being overpriced to stupid-overpriced. And then you talked about the AHs and their brisk business. My experience these days with the AHs is that final hammer prices tend to be overpriced to stupid-overpriced. I guess one clear difference is that stuff is actually selling for those prices at the AHs, instead of merely asking for it at the shows.

But maybe the asking prices at shows are even a step beyond the stupid-overpriced that we're seeing at AHs these days?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by raulus

But maybe the asking prices at shows are even a step beyond the stupid-overpriced that we're seeing at AHs these days?

This

It seems to me that you can often get better “deals” at auction than from many dealers at shows.

There are many dealers I know from shows who have good stuff and are reasonable (many are on this site). But lately I feel like many dealers are asking “museum prices”, often on non-museum pieces. And I am starting to see the same cards show after show

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This

It seems to me that you can often get better “deals” at auction than from many dealers at shows.

There are many dealers I know from shows who have good stuff and are reasonable (many are on this site). But lately I have seen many more with “museum prices”, often on non-museum pieces. And I am starting to see the same cards show after show

Interesting strategy.

Obviously I’m not averse to asking museum prices for my items on eBay. I flatter myself to think that they’re generally pretty rare pieces worthy of such pricing. But the cost to me to keep them rolling over on eBay for year after year is zero, while going to shows as a dealer has a nonzero cost. So it is a bit puzzling that dealers would take this approach to running their business at shows. I mean, asking retail is one thing, but if you’re going to ask for a multiple of retail for relatively common items, then (as you noted) it seems like you’re unlikely to find many takers.

At the same time, that’s the beauty of capitalism!! We each get to chase our wildest dreams, and over time those who execute poorly get washed out due to lack of profitability. Sometimes that process can take years or decades, but eventually those chickens come home to roost.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This

It seems to me that you can often get better “deals” at auction than from many dealers at shows.

There are many dealers I know from shows who have good stuff and are reasonable (many are on this site). But lately I feel like many dealers are asking “museum prices”, often on non-museum pieces. And I am starting to see the same cards show after show

Glad you brought up Chantilly. Heard the same thing from two patrons who went to the show. Same dealers, same inventory, same high prices.

Sadly, I wonder how many dealers bought high and are now stuck with inventory. At some point, will they lower or continue to be stubborn?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Glad you brought up Chantilly. Heard the same thing from two patrons who went to the show. Same dealers, same inventory, same high prices.

Sadly, I wonder how many dealers bought high and are now stuck with inventory. At some point, will they lower or continue to be stubborn?

It’s the age-old question for underwater investors:

Will you stay solvent long enough for your bets to pay off?

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This

It seems to me that you can often get better “deals” at auction than from many dealers at shows.

I actually said this to dealers at previous Boston Shriners' Shows, and they openly told me that of course you can get better deals at auctions, but basically you are paying for the premium of not having to wait/compete - you pay more to take it home right now. Needless to say, I was not persuaded.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don't offer anything. Ask the dealer to make the offer. Make him bid against himself. You will be surprised how many dealers will knock off a substantial sum from the sticker price, especially if prices on the card are stagnant and the card is relatively easy to find. I like to go with "what is the absolute lowest price you will accept for this card?" See what happens. Better than dickering.

That said, don't expect much movement on a card that is iconic, soaring in price or a rare one. No need to discount those. Last show I did some guy wanted me to discount a rare boxing card. No thanks. I can't just find another one on eBay. I think many dealers will hold a genuinely rare card until they get their price. I know I will.

Agreed. At the CSA show this weekend, I asked dealers with reasonable starting prices, "What is your best price on this card?" I was looking for 1969 Topps Mantle (yellow letter) graded PSA 7. Before the show, I did some research on Ebay and found the price to be around $1,300. I found a few examples on the floor. Two dealers had the card at $2K. Like others on the thread, I didn't even open my mouth. I believe dealers hate to hear "I can get a better price on Ebay or the consensus Ebay price is XXX." One dealer had the card for $1,465. I thought there was some room left on that card, and planned to return to the table after getting autographs. I have been kicking around the idea of collecting the 1961 Topps AS subset and the same dealer had a 1961 Maris AS card for $225, so his prices were not outrageous. If the country is headed for a recession in 2023, it will be interesting to see if card prices fall.

CSA seems to be trying to cram more dealers into a smaller space. Mail order is clearly king. It might have just been me but the floor seemed pretty cramped. I overheard two dealers chatting and although business seemed good (Sunday, much better than Saturday from my polling) the dealer said to the other - "I have two tables and with costs, I am $2K in the hole before making a sale. I could simply avoid the hassle and sell on Ebay. Of course, I will have to pay the fees, but I can just ship it out and be done with it." I have always thought that CSA is more of an autograph show than a card show.

Oh, in the event you are wondering, I did not get the 1969 Mantle or !961 AS Maris. On Saturday, I had purchased a 1958 AS Mantle and was happy with the purchase.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I heard from a few predominantly raw dealers this weekend who are set up at Chantilly show. I was told that raw vintage is selling really well to collectors, cards $75 bucks and lower. He further said when he walked around and looked at others tables with graded, they had little to no business. Way over priced.

Prices were high. Perhaps dealers are still on the high of a blowout National. Dealers have to know the price range of a given grade and card on Ebay. The America's Pastime table seemed to be making sales. He would come down on his price. Dealers have to move cards. As I mentioned in the post above, a dealer stated "I have $2K in expenses before making a sale." This dealer sold vintage, so $2K over three days, it would not be difficult to break even. It is interesting $2K man had two tables, a guy down from him had at least 5-10 tables. A $1 table, $5 table, $10 and I believe $15 with nothing but a hodgepodge of complete crap (IMHO) on every table. The inventory looked like the leftovers from a bad garage sale.

Are dealers in the game to get rich? If you read Tony Gordon's blog, he makes some buys more and just seems to be having a great time! https://www.fatdaddyssports.com/blog

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Huck

Prices were high. Perhaps dealers are still on the high of a blowout National. Dealers have to know the price range of a given grade and card on Ebay. The America's Pastime table seemed to be making sales. He would come down on his price. Dealers have to move cards. As I mentioned in the post above, a dealer stated "I have $2K in expenses before making a sale." This dealer sold vintage, so $2K over three days, it would not be difficult to break even. It is interesting $2K man had two tables, a guy down from him had at least 5-10 tables. A $1 table, $5 table, $10 and I believe $15 with nothing but a hodgepodge of complete crap (IMHO) on every table. The inventory looked like the leftovers from a bad garage sale.

Are dealers in the game to get rich? If you read Tony Gordon's blog, he makes some buys more and just seems to be having a great time! https://www.fatdaddyssports.com/blog

Did you notice more customers at dealers tables who were set up with more raw cards or graded?

[Huck]

Saw far more new stuff than vintage. There were some different vendors as well. A cut the cable cord booth. (only one lifetime payment!) A guy near the autograph area sat at a lone table and was drawing/sketching, no sign, nothing. I could not figure out what the table closest to the autograph area was even selling. There must have been at least 3-4 authentication booths. Very little memorabilia (basically Mendy's). The pennant guy returned. One vendor, nothing but hockey cards. I was actually surprised at the amount of raw cards in cases. The vintage tables were mixed, (1) all graded (2) nothing graded and (3) a bit of both. Quite a bit of psa 6 and below in the cases. I don't think the show was as crowded today (Sunday). I could not say whether raw out drew graded or vice versa. I no longer buy raw. I am not knocking those that like raw, to each his own. Back in the 90's I purchased a 70 and 71 Clemente. Nice looking cards. Awhile back I piggybacked on one of Bobby's submissions. One card came back as "altered". I would have guessed it was the 71 but it was the 70. I can't say that the dealer knew the card was altered and decades later there is no recourse. If I am dropping iron on vintage, it is going to be graded.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

...When I walk by the table and see a stupid price on a card, I don't even bother to ask. I imagine I am not alone...

You are most certainly not alone.

Outrageous sticker prices are easy to translate. They really read, "looking to have someone talk me down from 3x to 2x and think they got a steal."

[ejstel]

I went to the Chantilly show on Friday pm and the parking lot was basically full and inside was busy. I believe Ovechkin was there for auto's. I appreciate the Chantilly show, also there is usually enough space to walk around. Food and bathroom are much more humane than the National was.

Back tobthe thread topic: For me I like when a vintage dealer (of either graded, raw or both) has prices posted I will spend time at the table and look to make something happen...If prices are not posted I literally walk by as (I feel) I just can't ask every dealer, how much are you looking for on the x, then the y, then z etc etc...over and over per dealer. Do dealers want to do this with every one? So from my side I can say that I don't even look if no prices.

In any case, I agree w the comments here...if you are only into raw, raw vintage makes sense. Ot is tough being between both worlds. Graded vintage=much safer and faster (someone has already inspected the card professionally)

I even made a trade w a great vintage dealer in the back center right. It was a great experience. I offered cash and trade and we just traded (wow).

On Friday middle right section an attendee brought in 1952 mantle psa 4, 1951 bowman mays psa 6 and 1953 pss 5 mantle...looking to sell/trade....and this dealer had vintage to take this trade with a card or 2. (Wow pt 2)

For me, it is the moderns (not in this thread) but it is astonishing...so much stock coming into the show from collectors...they have their market and prices...from what I hear you can make/lose a bunch depending on the player.

Best,
Ed



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[markf31]

Originally Posted by ejstel

I went to the Chantilly show on Friday pm and the parking lot was basically full and inside was busy. I believe Ovechkin was there for auto's. I appreciate the Chantilly show, also there is usually enough space to walk around. Food and bathroom are much more humane than the National was.

Back tobthe thread topic: For me I like when a vintage dealer (of either graded, raw or both) has prices posted I will spend time at the table and look to make something happen...If prices are not posted I literally walk by as (I feel) I just can't ask every dealer, how much are you looking for on the x, then the y, then z etc etc...over and over per dealer. Do dealers want to do this with every one? So from my side I can say that I don't even look if no prices.

In any case, I agree w the comments here...if you are only into raw, raw vintage makes sense. Ot is tough being between both worlds. Graded vintage=much safer and faster (someone has already inspected the card professionally)

I even made a trade w a great vintage dealer in the back center right. It was a great experience. I offered cash and trade and we just traded (wow).

On Friday middle right section an attendee brought in 1952 mantle psa 4, 1951 bowman mays psa 6 and 1953 pss 5 mantle...looking to sell/trade....and this dealer had vintage to take this trade with a card or 2. (Wow pt 2)

For me, it is the moderns (not in this thread) but it is astonishing...so much stock coming into the show from collectors...they have their market and prices...from what I hear you can make/lose a bunch depending on the player.

Best,
Ed



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Ed, was that you with whom I made the trade with for the T210 Richmonds you were looking for?

This weekend's CSA show was the first time I ever played the part of a "dealer" at a show. A friend had a pair of tables and asked me to go help him with running the table in exchange for a case of space. For me it was a great experience and a great success.

Back to the topic at hand, the scope of what I collect is pretty narrow and focused and I don't hesitate to ask for a price if a dealer does not have posted prices or if a dealer seems to have extra inflated prices. I have almost always found dealers in both instances to be respectful of my counteroffers and have purchased just as much from that style of dealer as dealers who post prices more in line with the current market on their items.

[Huck]

Upon seeing all the ungraded vintage material, I did wonder if the backlog at the grading companies was the culprit or was the hobby trending towards raw? I believe it is the former, because a dealer can't wait a year for cards to return. Thoughts?

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Huck

Upon seeing all the ungraded vintage material, I did wonder if the backlog at the grading companies was the culprit or was the hobby trending towards raw? I believe it is the former, because a dealer can't wait a year for cards to return. Thoughts?

I think some dealers are realizing they aren't going to get their museum prices on their graded that they bought high so they are dumping their raw stuff and collectors are loving it.



.

[ejstel]

Originally Posted by markf31

Ed, was that you with whom I made the trade with for the T210 Richmonds you were looking for?



This weekend's CSA show was the first time I ever played the part of a "dealer" at a show. A friend had a pair of tables and asked me to go help him with running the table in exchange for a case of space. For me it was a great experience and a great success.



Back to the topic at hand, the scope of what I collect is pretty narrow and focused and I don't hesitate to ask for a price if a dealer does not have posted prices or if a dealer seems to have extra inflated prices. I have almost always found dealers in both instances to be respectful of my counteroffers and have purchased just as much from that style of dealer as dealers who post prices more in line with the current market on their items.

Hi great to hear that you worked a good trade. This was not me, I traded for graded 1956 Ted Williams and Kaline rookie.

How do you do with attendees selling and trading from their briefcases...when I was young dealers paid 50% of book (not a bad business if people are walking in with legends).

Best,
Ed

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[ejstel]

Originally Posted by markf31

Ed, was that you with whom I made the trade with for the T210 Richmonds you were looking for?



This weekend's CSA show was the first time I ever played the part of a "dealer" at a show. A friend had a pair of tables and asked me to go help him with running the table in exchange for a case of space. For me it was a great experience and a great success.



Back to the topic at hand, the scope of what I collect is pretty narrow and focused and I don't hesitate to ask for a price if a dealer does not have posted prices or if a dealer seems to have extra inflated prices. I have almost always found dealers in both instances to be respectful of my counteroffers and have purchased just as much from that style of dealer as dealers who post prices more in line with the current market on their items.

...oh thinking of what you are selling...were you near the back right ...back wall row. I think I bought something from that dealer..maybe 86 Fleer basketball..he said another dealer was setting up (Friday pm) on this part(right side) of the table...pre war?

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