1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[butchie_t]

More likely than not, yes. Still a nice pick up.

Regards.

B. T.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

At the risk of dredging up the old argument, I recently acquired these three cards in an auction. After reading a few pages of this thread, can I assume that these are in fact from the 1949 Sports Stars set? Is that the general consensus now?

Jim

Can you scan the backs of these cards ?

The backs are the key to determining whether these SQUARE cards are from the 1949 Sports Stars 48-card set....or, the 24-cards that were reprinted circa 1980's.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[ullmandds]

these imposter cards are being sold and misrepresented all over facebook these days...as well as elsewhere. the sanella ruth crowd are certainly embracing these as well!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jim

Can you scan the backs of these cards ?

The backs are the key to determining whether these SQUARE cards are from the 1949 Sports Stars 48-card set....or, the 24-cards that were reprinted circa 1980's.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted,

Here they are against a piece of white copy paper for background.

[tedzan]

Jim

I'm sorry to say that your cards are from reprinted 24 (circa 1980's) group.

The original 1947 BOND BREAD cards and the 1949 SPORTS set have bright white backs.

Here is the list of the 24 reprinted cards.....

Ewell Blackwell
Lou Boudreau
Harry Brecheen
Primo Carnera
Bobby Doerr
Bob Elliott
Del Ennis
Bob Feller
Joe Gordon
Tommy Holmes
Ken Keltner
Ralph Kiner
Joe Louis
Johnny Mize
Stan Musial
Andy Pafko
Johnny Pesky
Phil Rizzuto
Jackie Robinson
Aaron Robinson
Johnny Sain
Enos Slaughter
Vern Stephens
Ted Williams


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[ullmandds]

Itll be interesting what ebay/csg’s verdict will be on this?

[Illustrious]

I had posted this in the Post War section last week, but I thought posting here might be more appropriate since it was a dedicated thread to the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie.

I bought this card 2 years ago thinking this was the regular base set 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson, but when I sent it to SGC for grading, it was sent back saying "cannot/do not grade", insinuating this card was not from the 1947 set. After it came back, I bought a common card from the actual 1947 set that I knew was legit, and I could tell the difference then in hand, since I could touch and feel them side by side. The Jackie card I have is the exact same size as the authentic 1947 common card, except it's stock is not as thick as the cardboard the authentic common is printed on. The best way I can describe it, is that it's thinner than cardboard, but thicker than a magazine/comic cover, if that makes sense. Is my Jackie card from a later unauthorized reprint set? It's definitely old, which you can see in the pics and in hand. Any ideas on what "imposter" this could be?

[butchie_t]

Hopefully someone will here.

Good luck

Regards,

Butch

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Illustrious

I had posted this in the Post War section last week, but I thought posting here might be more appropriate since it was a dedicated thread to the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie.

I bought this card 2 years ago thinking this was the regular base set 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson, but when I sent it to SGC for grading, it was sent back saying "cannot/do not grade", insinuating this card was not from the 1947 set. After it came back, I bought a common card from the actual 1947 set that I knew was legit, and I could tell the difference then in hand, since I could touch and feel them side by side. The Jackie card I have is the exact same size as the authentic 1947 common card, except it's stock is not as thick as the cardboard the authentic common is printed on. The best way I can describe it, is that it's thinner than cardboard, but thicker than a magazine/comic cover, if that makes sense. Is my Jackie card from a later unauthorized reprint set? It's definitely old, which you can see in the pics and in hand. Any ideas on what "imposter" this could be?

Just curious. Have you read this whole thread?
.

[FrankWakefield]

Illustrious,

Do you have a black light? A uv light? Illuminate the back of the card that you're sure is genuine, then do the same to that Robinson. The greater the difference, the greater your concern should be, I'd think.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

Just curious. Have you read this whole thread?
.

im sure people have attempted to recreate the rounded/cut corners on the imposters attempting to deceive...and in some cases they likely have...even the TPG'ers.

This thread has all the info needed to tell the diff.

I got duped a few years ago...and have a "newer" J robinson in my PC binder.

These are all over FB these days being sold as Bond Bread.

[butchie_t]

This thread has a boatload of information regarding the Bond Bread set and the copies/imposters. Pretty sure it will answer many if not all of your q's. I know it answered mine.

Here is my Jackie Robinson, front and back for comparison. I purchased this along with the other 23 way back in May of 1990 from the Baseball Card Society.

What I know up to now, it is part of the Festberg find. I kept all the BBCS documentation and even the receipt. So, I at least can track it back to there. No further for me though.

There are many here that are experts in this set and the surrounding 'sets'. So, the information in the posts are solid as far as provenance goes.

Regards

Butch..

[Exhibitman]

I believe that it is still an open question as to the exact nature of the square-cornered cards that David Festberg sold. I do not believe that they are counterfeits made to deceive collectors: there was much better stuff to fake than dollar cards, and they didn't bother with the DiMaggio, which was the most valuable card at the time. You'd think a counterfeiter would skip Bob Elliott and go with Joe D. In my view the most likely explanation of the find was new old stock consisting of a print run of one sheet of the cards from the set that were printed and cut for something but never used for some reason, then were found in the 1980s. The print date and printer and reason for printing them, that we don't know.

But I could be wrong. I just haven't seen any compelling hard evidence as to the actual origins of these cards, nor do I think we will ever do so. That is not to say they are originals of the 1947-49 period, just that precisely what they are is still unknown. My view is get one on the cheap to have but don't say it is a RC.

[butchie_t]

I did just that back in May of 90 when I did buy the 24 card set from the BBCS. I believe they are old I just do not know how old.

Regards,

Butch

[toledo_mudhen]

This one WAS actually graded by SGC and they Identified as 1949 "Picture Pack"

[Schlesinj]

A SGC 7.5 sold for $31,200 (after BP). That was first one I have seen sold at auction in a little while.

[abctoo]

Member butchie_t was kind enough to provide black & white pictures of the Festburg cards some time ago. I'm sorry it took so long for me to post them.














This is the tag he received with the set in 1990.



Once again, thanks butchie_t. Sorry for the delay.

Mike

[Snowman]

Does anyone know why the TPGs won't assign a numeric grade to these authentic 1947 Bond Bread Jackies with the rounded corners anymore? They used to give out numeric grades, but it seems as though they're only signing "Authentic" in recent years (unless I'm wrong).

[investinrookies]

not sure but guessing its partly because so many with rounded corners originally had square corners? To me, all the uncertainty around the bond bread issue with with square/rounded corners makes the portrait card w/facsimile auto even more desirable. Its really is in a class by it self and stands far above the other issues.

[w5als]

Hi all
New here need help on bond bread cards. I am in the process of doing a book on them and need card info. I need L/W and thickness on all bond bread cards.
Round corner square corner the Jackie Robinson set the exhibit set to. forget
the two-sided set to. I need the sizes and thickness on all the cards and will take pictures on any of these cards front and back please. If you can please help me out.
thanks
alton

[GasHouseGang]

This card is currently being auctioned. I must add the disclaimer that I do not claim to be an expert on these cards. However, I was wondering when I saw this card, do you think someone took one of the later versions and cut off the corners to make it look like a Bond Bread card? Opinions are welcome. In case Leon asks for full name, David Maupin

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

This card is currently being auctioned. I must add the disclaimer that I do not claim to be an expert on these cards. However, I was wondering when I saw this card, do you think someone took one of the later versions and cut off the corners to make it look like a Bond Bread card? Opinions are welcome. In case Leon asks for full name, David Maupin

It would be helpful to see the back.

[GasHouseGang]

Here's a picture of the back.

[GasHouseGang]

I figured Ted would know if this kind of odd cut on the corners was normal.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I figured Ted would know if this kind of odd cut on the corners was normal.

Looking over this thread again, I think the top, very small corner is the issue. Otherwise, it looks good. Could be wrong but that corner doesn't look right, from my limited experiences. I have seen some I feel are legitimate uneven cuts, but yours looks too small to me.
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I figured Ted would know if this kind of odd cut on the corners was normal.

Hi David

The back looks good.

I have never seen these 1947 cards with 4 corners so irregularly cut as this card is.

TED Z
.

[Svabinsky78]

This is my Bond Bread Kiner. The corners are all pretty even.

[STL1944]

Just looking through my various 1947 Bond Breads, I see a LOT of variances in the corners. Some are perfectly rounded like the one above, while others are perfectly square.

Jim

[Svabinsky78]

My Hodges

[Exhibitman]

Acquired over the weekend:



It was hidden inside the magazine bag that held a Ruben Gomez picture. I didn't bother to open the bag before I got home because the Gomez was a cheap item in a mixed lot of stuff. Imagine my surprise when I found Stan the Man underneath it.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Acquired over the weekend:



It was hidden inside the magazine bag that held a Ruben Gomez picture. I didn't bother to open the bag before I got home because the Gomez was a cheap item in a mixed lot of stuff. Imagine my surprise when I found Stan the Man underneath it.

Very nice bonus insert!

Congrats.

[abctoo]

The question about the type of corners the 1948 Bond Bread cards were issued with must consider not only the Bond Bread cards, but other cards issued about the same time with the same pictures. Though its true that the Bond Bread cards issued in Bond Bread packages overall had rounded corners, at least 4 - 6 other sets with its pictures and a variety of corners are available.

Those sets include the Festburg sheets which could be cut into two different sets, one with rounded corners and the other with square corners. Also existing are the sets of Sport Cards issued in cardboard packages with WSNY printed on back and the subsequent cardboard pack issues with WSNY obliterated. We know that these Sport Cards come with both rounded corners and square corners. One or both of the sets could have been issued with rounded corners and square corners.

The grading services provide little guidance and are notorious for misidentifying these type of cards. Many of the corner variations discussed in prior posts come from limited areas of circulation and do not represent the wide variety of corner variations that existed across the broader base in which they were issued.

It's obvious that many corner varieties exists. These corner variations are not dissimilar to the corners of the 1949-50 Comic Traders aka Comic Stars non-sports issues.

Below are two of the less than 5 known "The Monster" cards from Comic Trader's Li'l Abner series. Even with so few known, the corners significantly differ. Also below are some "Ooola" cards from the same series, all with a variety of corner rounding. I hope their reference is helpful. Mike

[Exhibitman]

Not really but they are very colorful.

[abctoo]

Here's a few better examples of cut corners from Comic Traders.

[Leon]

Good info. THANKS for sharing...

Originally Posted by abctoo

Here's a few better examples of cut corners from Comic Traders.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Leon

Good info. THANKS for sharing...

To Leon: Thanks for the encouragement!

To All:

The images in the post to which Leon replied come from issues attributed as "Comic Stars" and "Comic Traders" cards. The cards were issued in 1949-1950 in a variety of subsets and packaging. The subsets might contain from 10 to 48 different cards. An identical card could appear in more than one subset, while other cards could be cropped pictures and/or with variations in text from one subset to the next. The cards were all issued with rounded cut corners.

Combined, the total number of different cards should be 250 cards, with over 200 cards blank-backed. At the present time, only about 80% of the 250 cards are known to exist. Little is known about the company responsible for manufacturing these "Comic Stars" / "Comic Traders" cards.

Ten Comic Trader cards are in the 'Li'l Abner Spoof Game," issued in April, 1950 by Milton Bradley. Complete sets are known. Each card has an imprint for "Dogpatch" (Li'l Abner's hometown) and some other details on back.

The only other cards with printing on the back come from the New York Mirror newspaper. Beginning at the end of June, 1950, the Mirror issued 1 card each week for 26 weeks inserted in its Sunday comic section. The card backs have text only: "FROM THE 16-PAGE COLOR COMIC SECTION EVERY SUNDAY IN THE NEW YORK MIRROR." During that time, the Mirror also offered cardboard packs containing more than one of the cards. A separate single promo card may exist.

In addition to publishing a newspaper at that time, for years the New York Mirror had been printing private jobs for large companies. Such printing was usually some form of advertising or other promotion, and often associated with advertising run in the newspaper. The Mirror not only had the capabilities, but extensive printing, cutting and packaging equipment, necessary to print cards, card packaging, and most any printed thing that could be given out. As a newspaper, it routinely accessed numerous photo services that offered pictures of the day. The Mirror's large art department could drawn or modify most any picture. Almost never, did the New York Times identify itself on its private printing jobs.

It's not definitive, but it looks like it may be more than coincidence. The New York Times carried extensive advertising for the Homogenized Bond Bread package insert cards and for Bond Bread's Jackie Robinson giveaways. The New York Mirror regularly used pictures from the license holder of the pictures of players used on Bond Bread cards. The cardboard packaging of the "Sport Star Subjects" sets containing the same 48 cards as the Bond Bread package insert set was of the type produced by the New York Mirror as was the packaging of related sets.

The following scan shows examples of the common backs of New York Mirror's "Comic Star / Comic Trader" cards. Consider how the cut corners compare with the cut corners of the Bond Bread cards. Your comments in a reply would be highly welcomed.



Thanks,

Mike

[pherbener]

Just got several Bond Breads back from SGC plus got my Jackie reholdered. I had a Rizzuto that had corners that seemed off that was returned ungraded. I'll post a picture of it when I find it!

[jessejames]

I haven’t been on net54 for a little while but referenced this thread a ton back in 2019/2022 when reading up on the history of Bond Bread and the many somewhat controversial variations. A few things…

I was the winner of the Elgee sheet from Leland’s back in 2021, and I’ve kept it intact as I bought it (sorry to whoever requested the Cerdan). From catching up on the updates to this thread after 2020, it doesn’t appear that much mystery still exists around this set, but happy to provide pics at some point if members find useful.

I also had a similar experience as a member who posted on this thread more recently in regards to taking a flyer on a raw Jackie with rounded edges listed as a BB on eBay. Once I received it in hand it was obvious that it was a reproduction due to the thinness and texture of the paperstock in comparison to some other raw rounded corner BB commons I had in hand (and which I subsequently submitted to SGC and which received numerical grades).

I also finally finished my rounded corner SGC graded BB set last summer which ended a really fun set build that took me about 5 years to complete (Rex Barney had escaped me for a couple years). Since the recent updates from Mike, which introduced the possibility that back color and rounded corners may not be enough evidence to prove the card in question was actually distributed with bread, who knows if my set is actually all BB or rounded corner SSS. I have a hard time reconciling this, as Ted seems to as well, as I believed the rounded corners were so they did not puncture the bread bag packaging. If we know the SSS versions were distributed via 4 boxes then why would they expend the effort to round the corners? Doesn’t make any sense to me either, but obviously doesn’t prove anything.

I’ll continue to work towards the 13 Jackie miniseries, which will take awhile, but love these cards and personally enjoy the bit of mystery that still surrounds them!

[butchie_t]

I would be just fine knowing if the Festburg cards from my post just above this one even come close to being BB cards (maybe variants of). And if they are period to that time and not the repros that are out there.

I think they are but thinking does not make it true.

Good luck with your quest. A rather awesome one for sure.

Butch