1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[abctoo]

Ted, You missed my point. You said in Post #255, "I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards). / All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones."

I have seen every card posted in this thread more than one time including those you posted. Along with a glossy picture of Joe DiMaggio from a Team Photo Pack you posted a Bond Bread insert card with two opposite corners not cut through. The card is an excellent example of the edge and corner die cutting not going completely through the stack of cards sheets being cut.

If you look at the die cutting on the Joe DiMaggio card you will see it comes from the same die cutter as used on each card of the four series of the Sport Star Subjects set issued with rounded corners.

Again, I have seen every card you have posted in this thread. It is unclear to me which of those cards you obtained from original Bond Bread packages and which you obtained after you returned to the hobby years later.

I am concerned that since you had not seen a die cut corner on a Sport Star Subjects card, that cards from that set are being misattributed as Bond Bread insert cards.

It's not difficult to look at the cards you already posted, but how do I know which of those you obtained directly from Bond Bread packages and which you did not?. That difference goes to the heart of distinguishing the two sets.

If you are unwilling or unable to post cards that you can definitively say you obtained from Bond Bread packages, would you at least identify which of the photos you have posted over the past 12 years are of original cards you obtained from bread packages and did not acquire at a later date?

As to the rounded corner Sport Star Subjects, most dealers have never heard of the square corner set. It's a little premature to definitively rule out the existence of a rounded corner set before 1980 when some have indicated they purchased one in 1947.

Thanks, Mike

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by abctoo

Ted, You missed my point. You said in Post #255, "I returned to this great hobby in 1977. I was fortunate to recover all my original collection from my youth (which included my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards). / All these years, I have never seen beveled-cornered cards in boxes such as the Sport Star Subjects ones."

I have seen every card posted in this thread more than one time including those you posted. Along with a glossy picture of Joe DiMaggio from a Team Photo Pack you posted a Bond Bread insert card with two opposite corners not cut through. The card is an excellent example of the edge and corner die cutting not going completely through the stack of cards sheets being cut.

If you look at the die cutting on the Joe DiMaggio card you will see it comes from the same die cutter as used on each card of the four series of the Sport Star Subjects set issued with rounded corners.

Again, I have seen every card you have posted in this thread. It is unclear to me which of those cards you obtained from original Bond Bread packages and which you obtained after you returned to the hobby years later.

I am concerned that since you had not seen a die cut corner on a Sport Star Subjects card, that cards from that set are being misattributed as Bond Bread insert cards.

It's not difficult to look at the cards you already posted, but how do I know which of those you obtained directly from Bond Bread packages and which you did not?. That difference goes to the heart of distinguishing the two sets.

If you are unwilling or unable to post cards that you can definitively say you obtained from Bond Bread packages, would you at least identify which of the photos you have posted over the past 12 years are of original cards you obtained from bread packages and did not acquire at a later date?

As to the rounded corner Sport Star Subjects, most dealers have never heard of the square corner set. It's a little premature to definitively rule out the existence of a rounded corner set before 1980 when some have indicated they purchased one in 1947.

Thanks, Mike

All due respect as it seems you’re trying to add value, but the tone of these posts is grating to me. Seems you’re challenging Ted and putting onus on he and others to prove your theory by posting high resolution scans. Guys like Ted have freely provided input from their research for years, and I think that work is universally appreciated.

I have a headache from reading, trying to interpret the recent posts, but still don’t see clear proof the rounded corner cards sold on eBay actually came from those boxes. Boxes, like cigarette packs (often displayed here) can be re-packaged with cards for display, and sold. Perhaps that happened here.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

All due respect as it seems you’re trying to add value, but the tone of these posts is grating to me. Seems you’re challenging Ted and putting onus on he and others to prove your theory by posting high resolution scans. Guys like Ted have freely provided input from their research for years, and I think that work is universally appreciated.

I have a headache from reading, trying to interpret the recent posts, but still don’t see clear proof the rounded corner cards sold on eBay actually came from those boxes. Boxes, like cigarette packs (often displayed here) can be re-packaged with cards for display, and sold. Perhaps that happened here.

Ted has done an exceptional effort to raise the issues of Bond Bread set and its look-alikes and has contributed much elsewhere to the understanding of obscure cards. His completion of the T206 set with Carolina Brights (correction added) backs is a task none even contemplated could be done. We are all thankful for his efforts.

My concern is that several major auction houses (not eBay) have offered auctions lots over the years which they titled as Bond Bread cards, but both in the pictures they provided and in the text indicated the cards came from Sport Star Subjects boxes. Even today, you can't find the Sport Star Subjects set (square of rounded corners) mentioned in a catalog. OldCardboard doesn't but says for the Bond Bread insert set that it exists with both square and rounded corners, and to compound the matter says that cards with many square and rounded corners exist in high grade. Wouldn't it be nice to know what they are talking about?

My quires to Ted are not to challenge him, but to begin a real effort based on objective fact to tell Bond Bread insert cards apart from the cards in the Sport Star Subjects set.

I'm sorry if it seems like I am being overly critical of Ted. I am not. Without a clear picture of what is a Bond Bread insert and what came from a Sport Star Subjects set, many have been misled and will continue to be misled into believing what they have is not actually what they have. I think that dispelling such belief is part of the intent of this thread.

I hope this does not give more of a headache, but the issue has to be resolved.

Thanks, Mike

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Trying to delete email notice. You can delete this response.

[abctoo]

Many questions over the past years have been asked in this thread about what is Jackie Robinson's first issue.

Below is a scan of the 1946 Parade Sportive newspaper insert picturing Jackie Robinson with the Montreal Royals, the minor league team he reported to after his historic meeting with Branch Rickey. Though it is printed on thin paper and not cardboard stock, among those who know what it is, I doubt if many would turn it down.




P.S. At the end of my Post #269 of yesterday, I sought pictures of certain perforated two-sided cards often attributed to Bond Bread. I have completed reconstructing the first of two sheets of 24 cards and need the information sought to finish. Again, I thank member Hartford20 for his reply in Post #271. Anyone who would contribute such information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Mike

[tim]

Here are the four Sport Star Subject boxes. They are clearly marked as series 1 through 4, each containing 12 cards. 4 boxes x 12 cards = 48 cards. 48 cards is the number of round-cornered cards.

[abctoo]

The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Five (Working)

5. Perforated printed two-sided cards with Sports, Hollywood and Cowboys pictured.

UPDATE

My last post on the perforated dual sided cards was Post #269 on June 10, 2020 above. Again, I have reconstruct one of the two sheet of 24 cards in this set and am working on the other. Each sheet has one adjoining left half and right half of a back that when read together states: “46 / TRADING CARDS / ASSORTED SUBJECTS / SPORTS . HOLLYWOOD. COWBOYS / AN ELGEE PRODUCT No. 4575”. The description is sort of a misnomer. Each sheet of 24 cards is printed on both sides with 46 pictures (subjects) and two backs, so that together, the two sheets have 92 pictures (subjects) and 4 backs.

Many simply identify these cards by the printed name of the baseball player or movie star and indicate the back as a “Western” without providing any illustration. That's an easy way and misses the fact that the unlabeled pictures include John Wayne, Randolph Scott, Genie Autry, Hopalong Cassidy and other top stars, who at the time the cards were issued were becoming more popular and more readily identifiable by just an unlabeled picture, than the named person on the other side. I have identified many of the Cowboy (Western) pictures from both sheets as coming from publicity stills of some of the top grossing Cowboy movies of the era. The unlabeled cowboy pictures on the cards can be of the entire publicity still or cropped from it, and show the cowboy pictured in the same pose and cloths as on the stills.

Most of the unlabeled cowboy pictures are from 1945-1947 movies, except at least three from “Red River” that was filmed in 1946, copyrighted in 1947, and released on September 30, 1948. Before the initial 1947 scheduled release of “Red River,” Howard Hughes sued “Red River” producer Howard Hawks over copyright infringement. That and additional editing delayed the actual release until 1948. It is possible that the publicity stills from which the cards are based were available in 1947 for those who wanted to license the use of “Red River” images, but it is still uncertain if 1947, rather than 1948, was the actual date of issue of these cards. A smart set manufacturer would want the latest in his set to drive sales, with first printings a trial to see how big the demand. The fact that these cards are not readily available suggests that a second, third or subsequent printing was not made. The problems with wide circulation of and demand for the cards includes picturing John Wayne (at least twice) before the public saw his performance in “Red River.” John Ford, who worked with Wayne on many films including Stagecoach (1939), was so impressed with Wayne's “Red River” performance that he is reported to have said, "I didn’t know the big son of a bitch could act!"

To date this set and complete reconstruction of the second sheet, I need identification and scans of the opposite sides of cards for which I currently cannot identify. I have no pictures. Below are such cards. These pictures may include both the front and back of a card, but I have not yet been able to associate the two together. Any help will be appreciated.



I've changed the scan from original post as I obtained some of the information the original sought and that is explained in the next post.

Thank you,

Mike


Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[abctoo]

Been able to identify the backs of some cards listed in previous post so removed them from the scan there to avoid any confusion. Now have the backs of the Roy Rogers & Katherine Hepburn adjoining pair and the Gary Grant and Claudette Colbert cards previously pictured there. In fact, these four cards align up as Colbert, Rogers, Hepburn and Grant, for the full four card width of the sheet. The Wallace Beery (Cowboy) card is matched with Phil Rizzuto on the other side -- the same Phil Rizzuto picture used on the other sheet but that one has Lana Turner on the other side. Still need info on the others listed above. Thanks, Mike