PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[conor912]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Huigens is obviously doing this for two reasons- one, Lichtman's prowess as an attorney, and two, Lichtman's strong knowledge of the sports card trade. Having said that, can his public posts and tirades towards PWCC come back and haunt him in the end.....

Take a look at previous threads. Would you be surprised if they've already been scrubbed? One of the first things I would have done is go back and wipe out the record of me shit talking my client on an open forum....

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by conor912

Take a look at previous threads. Would you be surprised if they've already been scrubbed? One of the first things I would have done is go back and wipe out the record of me shit talking my client on an open forum....

I never looked to see if Jeff did go back and remove all his negative comments. I can guarantee more than one person has saved them for posterity.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I never looked to see if Jeff did go back and remove all his negative comments. I can guarantee more than one person has saved them for posterity.

You think?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am sure Mr Lichtman will do what is best for the hobby and his client who was obviously used by less than honest card doctors.

He has one client. And no obligation to do anything for the hobby.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bnorth

i am sure mr lichtman will do what is best for the hobby and his client who was obviously used by less than honest card doctors.

obviously :d:d:d:d

total sellout period

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

He has one client. And no obligation to do anything for the hobby.

Integrity, dignity, and hypocrisy be damned!

[CMIZ5290]

I wonder if Jeff would represent Joe Orlando down the line?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Integrity, dignity, and hypocrisy be damned!

A big kudos to him for reaffirming the punchline of every lawyer joke every written.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

Take a look at previous threads. Would you be surprised if they've already been scrubbed? One of the first things I would have done is go back and wipe out the record of me shit talking my client on an open forum....

Instead of speculating and insinuating why don't you actually look?

Here I'll help you since you don't seem capable of using the search function.

http://www.net54baseball.com/search....archid=1859639

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Instead of speculating and insinuating why don't you actually look?

Here I'll help you since you don't seem capable of using the search function.

http://www.net54baseball.com/search....archid=1859639

Keep trying.
"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

Keep trying.
"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

It comes up with all his posts for me. Three straight times. Anyhow, search yourself, it's easy.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It comes up with all his posts for me. Three straight times. Anyhow, search yourself, it's easy.

I'll get right on it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

I'll get right on it.

Please report back how many posts he changed.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Please report back how many posts he changed.

You're twisting my words, Peter...or at least reading them wrong. I never accused him of changing his posts. I never claimed to look, either.

Here, let's break it down fo you:
"Take a look at previous threads." I said look, because I hadn't.

"Would you be surprised if they've already been scrubbed?" I didn't say they were, I asked if anyone would surprised if they were....because someone in this hobby always seems to stoop lower than the next guy....it's like a race to f'ing sewer.

"One of the first things I would have done is go back and wipe out the record of me shit talking my client on an open forum...." - That just seems like a no-brainer to me.

You can put whatever hidden meaning you want between those lines.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Please report back how many posts he changed.

I would be surprised if Jeff changed or deleted any posts....I will say that for him....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

You're twisting my words, Peter...or at least reading them wrong. I never accused him of changing his posts. I never claimed to look, either.

Here, let's break it down fo you:
"Take a look at previous threads." I said look, because I hadn't.

"Would you be surprised if they've already been scrubbed?" I didn't say they were, I asked if anyone would surprised if they were....because someone in this hobby always seems to stoop lower than the next guy....it's like a race to f'ing sewer.

"One of the first things I would have done is go back and wipe out the record of me shit talking my client on an open forum...." - That just seems like a no-brainer to me.

You can put whatever hidden meaning you want between those lines.

That's about the worst spin job I've ever seen. All you had to do was look, it would have taken less time than typing out a pointless post.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's about the worst spin job I've ever seen. All you had to do was look, it would have taken less time than typing out a pointless post.

Great. Have a nice day.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Integrity, dignity, and hypocrisy be damned!

It’s kind of how the lawyer thing works. I don’t think you’d want your lawyer to have some alternative agenda other that getting you the best defense possible.

[Republicaninmass]

Lots of people punching WELL above their weight these days.

[Moonlight Graham]

Seems to me Brent screwed a lot of people for a lot of money. I think it's kind of cool that a fellow board member is now going to take a lot of money from him.

Joe Kemmett

[hcv123]

I do not know Jeff personally, but have read many of his posts here. He has been a champion of the hobby. I believe if Brent was represented by a different attorney, he very well could have been advised to take different actions than refunding those who have purchased doctored cards. I presume Jeff thought about and is walking a bit of a fine line here. Facilitating both what is in his clients best legal interest while helping some people get restitution. I trust his practice and intention here.

[Johnny630]

I wonder who else is giving money to this victims restitution fund ?

Who is funding all the refunds ? Does PWCC have enough bread in their vault to cover the bad card ? Is PSA saying the cards are altered when returned to PWCC or is PWCC making that call ?

Is PSA be investigated ? I’m not taking up for anyone but geez how can PSA not be held somewhat responsible/..not criminally responsible but liable for negligence in grading thousand of these bad cards. That Cap Anson Peter previously posted from Blowout was Awful....originally Slabbed by PSA as Altered in MH then later a PSA 4 in PWCC ....idk it’s very depressing...more ugly cards each day discover by BO Detectives who along with Peter have done a great service.

When all litigation is over and adjudication rendered, will the bad cards in government evidence be returned to PSA to be removed from the Pop Report? if and when PSA deems them as altered ?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I would be surprised if Jeff changed or deleted any posts....I will say that for him....

AGreed

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Graham

Seems to me Brent screwed a lot of people for a lot of money. I think it's kind of cool that a fellow board member is now going to take a lot of money from him.

Joe Kemmett

Me too

[SMPEP]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

AGreed

I saw what you did there

[drcy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I would be surprised if Jeff changed or deleted any posts....I will say that for him....

A defense lawyer isn't the accused or a witness. The prosecution doesn't cross-examine the lawyer.

Though that Brent is apparently going to refund people beyond the statute of limitations indicates that he believes he's in deep shit.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I do not know Jeff personally, but have read many of his posts here. He has been a champion of the hobby. I believe if Brent was represented by a different attorney, he very well could have been advised to take different actions than refunding those who have purchased doctored cards. I presume Jeff thought about and is walking a bit of a fine line here. Facilitating both what is in his clients best legal interest while helping some people get restitution. I trust his practice and intention here.

Client's best interest? Restitution? Jeff really has you guys fooled. Y'all are so gullible.

You think Jeff gives a shit about his client's best interest? He was hooking up with his girlfriend during El Chapo's trial. Was that in his client's best interest?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/el-chapos...-client-report

If you really think Jeff gives a shit about restitution? Tell me what kind of restitution did El Chapo's victims get? Should I post some extremely graphic images as a reminder?

Please! What a crock of shit!

[jhs5120]

Can we try to refrain from personal attacks.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Truth hurts, huh?

[jhs5120]

Guess that’s a no.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Where were you when Jeff was making personal attacks on Brent? Oh, the hypocrisy!

[jhs5120]

Never mind.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Client's best interest? Restitution? Jeff really has you guys fooled. Y'all are so gullible.

You think Jeff gives a shit about his client's best interest? He was hooking up with his girlfriend during El Chapo's trial. Was that in his client's best interest?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/el-chapos...-client-report

If you really think Jeff gives a shit about restitution? Tell me what kind of restitution did El Chapo's victims get? Should I post some extremely graphic images as a reminder?

Please! What a crock of shit!

Ive seen Jeff use the word scumbag multiple times on this site while attacking others. Are lawyers held to any accountibility when I read an article like the one posted? Does the Bar look into Ehtics of an attourney when something like this happens?

I wonder if other Criminal defense lawyers on this board would have taken on Brent as a client? Don't they have a choice?

[Peter_Spaeth]

There's nothing in that article that suggests any ethical violation. It's a personal matter.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I do not know Jeff personally, but have read many of his posts here. He has been a champion of the hobby. I believe if Brent was represented by a different attorney, he very well could have been advised to take different actions than refunding those who have purchased doctored cards. I presume Jeff thought about and is walking a bit of a fine line here. Facilitating both what is in his clients best legal interest while helping some people get restitution. I trust his practice and intention here.

I think you have to take with a grain of salt anything a lawyer says about what their clients intention is etc... If another lawyer was worried about the hobby more than the client it would be a conflict of interest to the client

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by drcy

A defense lawyer isn't the accused or a witness. The prosecution doesn't cross-examine the lawyer.

Though that Brent is apparently going to refund people beyond the statute of limitations indicates that he believes he's in deep shit.

Id like to see that actually happen....... BP said they would refund all 'legiitimate' claims during the oil spill and there is still litigation over what 'legitimate' is

There will be issues of what 'doctored' really is and when the SOL actually expires.....you going to pay 50k if you dont legally owe it due to your high ethics given your great ethical past?

[Rhotchkiss]

I have spoken with Jeff, and I personally believe his heart and motives are in the right place here - he does feel he can do best for the hobby as an active participant, rather than as a spectator on the sidelines. And I respect that. He does have an ethical and professional duty to his client (PWCC), which may mean his client experiences (or does not experience) some "result" he/it otherwise would not have experienced without the Jeff's representation - on that matter, I have been honest with Jeff that I am rooting against him and would like to see serious repercussions as well as restitution.

All that said, please stop bashing him and/or bring up matters that are unrelated to the PWCC matter. Not because I like Jeff or care about his feelings, but because he is has been gracious enough to provide some info on the PWCC matter, which he does not have to do, and his posts are leading to articles. I think the more info the better it is best for us and the hobby at large, and emails bashing Jeff are likely to make him stop posting, which again is not good.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I have spoken with Jeff, and I personally believe his heart and motives are in the right place here - he does feel he can do best for the hobby as an active participant, rather than as a spectator on the sidelines. And I respect that. He does have an ethical and professional duty to his client (PWCC), which may mean his client experiences (or does not experience) some "result" he/it otherwise would not have experienced without the Jeff's representation - on that matter, I have been honest with Jeff that I am rooting against him and would like to see serious repercussions as well as restitution.

All that said, please stop bashing him and/or bring up matters that are unrelated to the PWCC matter. Not because I like Jeff or care about his feelings, but because he is has been gracious enough to provide some info on the PWCC matter, which he does not have to do, and his posts are leading to articles. I think the more info the better it is best for us and the hobby at large, and emails bashing Jeff are likely to make him stop posting, which again is not good.

I agree. Girlfriends....or whatever else, doesn't have a thing relative to what we are talking about. And as far as I know most everyone has had a problem or done something they aren't too proud of in the past....just most of us haven't had it hit the newspaper.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am certainly in favor of restitution. I agree that it would not have happened this early if at all without Jeff's involvement. I can only hope that it ends up being more than a token or modest amount, although realistically there is no conceivable way it is going to come close to the harm inflicted by the many years of selling doctored cards.

That said, without any subpoena power and with most of the industry playing ostrich and refusing to help, the extent of card doctoring, knowing sale of doctored cards, and now (apparently) market manipulation that has been uncovered by collectors and one dealer assisting their efforts is staggering. If the federal government which of course has subpoena power nevertheless concludes that there is no prosecutable case here, or that it isn't worth it, and the culprits escape any significant punishment that in turn might deter others (or even themselves from keeping right on doing what they have been doing), there is no hope of ever cleaning up the cesspool that is this industry. Might as well just drink the Kool Aid and join the others admiring the emperor's new clothes and the trimmed, recolored, and bleached junk in slabs.

We'll see what happens. I am very much rooting against Jeff's client in that regard, and the others.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am certainly in favor of restitution. I agree that it would not have happened this early if at all without Jeff's involvement. I can only hope that it ends up being more than a token or modest amount, although realistically there is no conceivable way it is going to come close to the harm inflicted by the years of selling doctored cards.

That said, without any subpoena power and with most of the industry playing ostrich and refusing to help the effort, the extent of card doctoring, knowing sale of doctored cards, and now (apparently) market manipulation that has been uncovered by collectors is staggering. If the federal government which of course has subpoena power nevertheless concludes that there is no prosecutable case here, or that it isn't worth it, and the culprits escape any significant punishment that in turn might deter others (or even themselves from keeping right on doing what they have been doing), there is no hope of ever cleaning up the cesspool that is this industry.

We'll see what happens. I am very much rooting against Jeff's client in that regard, and the others.

White collar is always the way to go. You can take 10 million and pay 3 million back and be a hero and move on with life Market Manipulation/trimming pays... you just look bad on net54 boards..

but on a beach with 7 million net you look pretty good to all the ladies out there..


If you represent someone and you get them off with zero punishment and even exonerate them in exchange for ruining the hobby forever or #2 make your client have some type of punishment but make the hobby great.....you have to choose the zero punishment...please stop thinking anything else....a lawyer owes that to the client ...unless the client chooses the other option..

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am certainly in favor of restitution. I agree that it would not have happened this early if at all without Jeff's involvement. I can only hope that it ends up being more than a token or modest amount, although realistically there is no conceivable way it is going to come close to the harm inflicted by the many years of selling doctored cards.

.

And if it did and he had to pay everyone in the hobby...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3x24oA9sI8

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I have spoken with Jeff, and I personally believe his heart and motives are in the right place here - he does feel he can do best for the hobby as an active participant, rather than as a spectator on the sidelines. And I respect that. He does have an ethical and professional duty to his client (PWCC), which may mean his client experiences (or does not experience) some "result" he/it otherwise would not have experienced without the Jeff's representation - on that matter, I have been honest with Jeff that I am rooting against him and would like to see serious repercussions as well as restitution.

All that said, please stop bashing him and/or bring up matters that are unrelated to the PWCC matter. Not because I like Jeff or care about his feelings, but because he is has been gracious enough to provide some info on the PWCC matter, which he does not have to do, and his posts are leading to articles. I think the more info the better it is best for us and the hobby at large, and emails bashing Jeff are likely to make him stop posting, which again is not good.

I agree with this.

I was surprised when Jeff took the case but once he explained it I understood (to a degree) what he is trying to do and I applaud that.

Brent, PSA, and the card doctors/shills are the bad actors here NOT Jeff! Leave the personal crap about the lawyer of one of the above out of this!

Personally I would like to see justice handed down to all those involved as it makes me sick (as it obviously did to Jeff as well as you can see from his first reactions).

At the minimum some things in this hobby will be cleaned up, at least some restitution may be forthcoming, and ultimately something good may come out of this really terrible situation. I have to be content with that. Personally I’d love all the unethical behavior and characters removed from the hobby, and that may happen over time but this is merely a step in the right direction.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I have spoken with Jeff, and I personally believe his heart and motives are in the right place here - he does feel he can do best for the hobby as an active participant, rather than as a spectator on the sidelines. And I respect that. He does have an ethical and professional duty to his client (PWCC), which may mean his client experiences (or does not experience) some "result" he/it otherwise would not have experienced without the Jeff's representation - on that matter, I have been honest with Jeff that I am rooting against him and would like to see serious repercussions as well as restitution.

All that said, please stop bashing him and/or bring up matters that are unrelated to the PWCC matter. Not because I like Jeff or care about his feelings, but because he is has been gracious enough to provide some info on the PWCC matter, which he does not have to do, and his posts are leading to articles. I think the more info the better it is best for us and the hobby at large, and emails bashing Jeff are likely to make him stop posting, which again is not good.

again, I feel the same way....just everyone stop attacking the guy. He did what he did. It's Fu**ed up, and just move on..... Like the hobby wants. To badger the guy is just stupid. It's his job. Save the vitriol for the scumbag he's representing. Brent Mastso, the King of Shill and cheater effer.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

again, I feel the same way....just everyone stop attacking the guy. He did what he did. It's Fu**ed up, and just move on..... Like the hobby wants. To badger the guy is just stupid. It's his job. Save the vitriol for the scumbag he's representing. Brent Mastso, the King of Shill and cheater effer.

I don't care who represents any of these guys/companies. There's no need to badger the lawyers.

[celoknob]

Without getting into the muck, I find it very strange some of the naive accolades being spread here.

[japhi]

Jeff representing Brent is good for Brent, Jeff, The Hobby. Pick two.

It basically guarantees we will never get anything close to a full accounting, and I would bet a lot of money PWCC keep their business and no one at that company pays anymore then a financial price.

You have to be pretty naive to think that a small amount of buyers getting restitution outweighs a full accounting of what has happened here.

Hope I’m wrong but I’m betting that this is the beginning of the end, buyers getting restitution will be signing NDA’s and our knowledge of the scope of this thing will be limited to the tiny percentage of cards the BO guys found.

[Jeffrompa]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

I don't care who represents any of these guys/companies. There's no need to badger the lawyers.

Maybe the lawyer is being paid in PSA graded cards .

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think there are NDAs but as I posted there is IMO no chance that whatever amount Brent and a few other card doctors pay back will even scratch the surface of the amount of their ill gotten gains, or the harm inflicted on the hobby.

Is it better than no restitution? Yes, of course. Is it an adequate punishment for the crime? That to me is the real question. We'll see what happens.

[LOUCARDFAN]

I’m curious as to who reached out to who. We all know Brent reads the forums and has most likely seen where Jeff has continually roasted him so it would take huge balls for Brent to call him up and ask for his representation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's nothing in that article that suggests any ethical violation. It's a personal matter.

Peter, that's a load of crap! I'm not an attorney and I don't know what is or is not an ethical violation, but do you think if he was in court while texting/thinking about his girlfriend that he can fully focus on the trial? How about this line from the article, "Lichtman also told his paramour that she was distracting him from the drug lord’s case. He said, according to the Post, that he was 'spending more time on your case than on the one where I got paid a million dollars.'"


And maybe that's not an ethical violation. I don't know and I don't care.
But it goes back to my original point. How do you focus on your client's best interest when the focus is on other things? I don't think you read the entire article. And this is not a personal attack on Jeff's character, it's to show that Jeff doesn't give a shit about anybody but Jeff.

Question for you though. If you were a defense attorney, would you defend Brent? And please don't give me the typical lawyer answer, "Well, but I'm not a defense attorney...blah, blah, blah." It's a hypothetical question. Would you or would you not defend Brent?