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#1
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1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in PWCC Auction
Hi everyone. My apologies as this is post WWII card, but PWCC has the below 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in their next auction. Will be interesting to watch the bidding.
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#2
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That exact card was just sold in Heritage's auction on Feb 24, 2019 (less than 4 1/2 months ago), for $456K.
Steve
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Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce. Current Wantlist: 1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back) 1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox |
#3
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Unimprovable condition!
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#4
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#becausewetried
Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#5
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This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point. I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards. The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate. There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods. One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe. |
#6
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#7
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My opinion...
Dont delude yourself. Its Brent's card. Like any crook he was going to try the ultimate caper, only now it's getting sold to pay his attorney.
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#8
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Who knows..
but a lot of times you will hear a collector after a big ticket purchase just trying to get their money back to 'focus on a new direction' in their collection It seems like this new 'focus' happens after a big ticket purchase... |
#9
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Heck how are they supposed to know about the double secret probation Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 07-03-2019 at 05:49 AM. |
#10
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So what you are saying is he bought it in the Heritage auction and now is forced to liquidate it to pay attorneys fees. Correct? |
#11
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Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#12
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Do you still collect autographed cards? I assume you do. |
#13
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Here’s a crazy idea .... how about just deciding based on their track record that you will stop doing business with PWCC (if you ever did). Chronicling on a daily basis their alleged fraud for your remaining time on this spinning orb seems a little wasteful.
Last edited by Snapolit1; 07-03-2019 at 06:01 AM. |
#14
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Sure do, but narrow it to Only SGC graded t206s with shaky signatures.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#15
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My thoughts too.
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this is certainly possible!
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#17
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And please dont compare Apples to Eron David, I give you more credit than that.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#18
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+1
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#19
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The obvious point is there have been loads of issues with autographs and people still collect them. I believe the same will prove to be true with cards. A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration. The card that was presented that Sotheby's expert had "restored" gives further credence to the art and antique car analogies. I wonder how many of the collectors that purchase these relics actually care. It might be a lot it might not be as many as people think. I continue to believe though it is naive to think that if Picasso's can be restored and collector cars can too to mimic their original state that trading cards somehow can't and wont be. |
#20
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In general, yes, the 52 Mantle will always be a symbol of Americana. Demand will not evaporate. This particular Mantle's final sale price is tainted, as well as ALL of PWCC'S prices. Bobby at VCP should remove all PWCC sales prices from their services. Keeping the sales data on his site is knowingly selling false data to his customers. At the very least there should be a PWCC disclaimer. The push for this is coming. It's not an "FU" to those who want justice. To my knowledge, this Mantle wasn't advertised like previous high "calibur" cards. A 52 Mantle PSA 8 would be pushed on all social media outlets, email blitzes, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but it just popped up on their next auction with little to no push? It's likely a Brent card being sold to pay attorney fees and reimburse customers for cards THEY altered. |
#21
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Bobby still has a PWCC ad covering his front page.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#22
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What would the card need to reside in a '10' holder? sharper corners?? It's a big gamble, but if you have done all this "so far", I don't see why not.
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#23
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Removing PWCC sales from VCP would be a horrible idea. There are thousands and thousands of legit sales that must be taken into consideration that would be removed. This would give an even more false sense of card values. I am not sure where you guys come up with these theories. There is a lot of speculation out there that to me is dangerous and inflammatory. |
#24
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There are lots of quick flips that take place in trading cards that work and many that don't. I just think it is very speculative to assume that this is Brent's card and he is selling to pay for his potential legal issues. |
#25
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I must be missing this, why do people think it's Brent's card? Is it because nobody would consign it to him in this environment?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-03-2019 at 06:41 AM. |
#26
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#27
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I am one of these people. Every time they continue to sell a tainted PSA card, they increase PSA's liability against the grade guarantee. They are conspiring against PSA by selling their cards. I'm not saying it's bad to sell a PSA 8 Mantle right now; I'm saying it's bad to consign it through PWCC.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#28
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When I emailed Steve Sloan to recommend he have the buyers of PWCC cards return them to Brent, I gave him the reasoning that if the sale never happened, the grade guarantee doesn't come into play. Why would PSA pay off cards that were doctored and submitted by Moser or Brent if they didn't have to? Wouldn't that be a fiduciary issue their stockholders would want to know about?
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#29
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For me it's just an educated guess. Could be wrong.
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#30
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Allegedly doctored any cards........ Last edited by Johnny630; 07-03-2019 at 07:06 AM. |
#31
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PSA needs to acknowledge that they have to produce a better product, and as many collectors as possible should know about this. Then they can decide how they want to proceed. If they want to continue paying world's records for everything, at least they will be doing it with their eyes open. |
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#33
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Do you have a source for this?
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#34
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It is on their website. Starts July 5th I see.
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https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/curr...page=50&page=1 I guess. There are nearly 400 Mantle cards coming for sale this week. Must be a lot of stupid people out there. |
#36
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#37
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Only ~15 (I may have counted incorrectly) of the Mantles are blessed with stickers. Does that mean only 15 are "conserved"? Are the folks that bid on the stickered cards the stupid ones? or ...... Are the 385 folks who didn't get their Mantles conserved the stupid ones? or ..... Are the 385 folks hopeful that Moser will bid on their card(s)? or ...... Are both true and all 400 people who buy them stupid? If I don't bid with PWCC, am I stupid? Are there any contingency plans to increase the size of the Vault in the near future? Alex, I'll take PWCC for $1000 Why are house guests like dead fish? They begin to stink after three days.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#38
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This guy from Blowout sums it up perfectly.
"You have to be mentally challenged to buy from pwcc"
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#39
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A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted |
#40
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Where it matters in reality I believe is whether or not Joe Blow Zillionaire collector of macho-ridiculously-expensive sports cards thinks it matters. And to date I doubt many of those types have even considered the comparison question.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#41
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Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"
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I have a client that owns close to 20 1950's classic cars and he built a home with a museum attached that appears to be part of the home. When you tour this museum/garage and see how beautiful and near perfect the cars are it reinforces anything is possible. He has a rare car from the 50's where there are only three known and his has the rare hubcaps that were limited edition. One or two are re-manufactured and the others are refurbished. The car is mint and is a perfect restoration. In the car world there is an expectation that the cars have been worked on. In the vintage card world it seems there is the same but to what degree. Last edited by Dpeck100; 07-03-2019 at 09:38 AM. |
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Of course but I have dealt with differing opinions from the second I started posting online about cards and just expect it. It hasn't proven to be too smart to take the other side of my arguments.
Last edited by Dpeck100; 07-03-2019 at 09:41 AM. |
#44
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You are clearly the foremost wrestling card collector on the forum.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#45
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No one else--just you. You're a moron.
__________________
“Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#46
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__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#47
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Yes the timing was poor. I admittedly do not know what to think about it. Seeing pristine looking cards that came out of tobacco canisters or cracker jack boxes has never really made sense to me. Once I started learning more about the older cards from this forum and hearing about the techniques many use that are considered okay it became clear to me that what I thought was the norm wasn't the norm. Brent makes it very clear in that video that there are quite a few cards that have been "conserved". He has a very matter of fact look on his face and with being so connected to the hobby and seeing thousands upon thousands of cards I think it is clear he is right. Whether one thinks it is the right opinion or belief appears to be up for debate. I do find it odd that some who are totally okay with soaking which in my view is attempting to improve the cards appearance or restore it is okay but other methods are worthy of the death penalty. In life many try and justify wrong doing by saying well others do it or it is not as bad as killing someone etc. but once that line is crossed it is crossed and now you are in new territory. I can't get in the head of someone buying these cards so I will leave what is okay or acceptable up to them and as I said there may be many of these collectors that are perfectly fine with "conservation" and would rather look at a much nicer card. I have to assume that many of these same collectors have exposure to other high end collectible asset classes and trading cards appears to be the only area where it is taboo but yet still accepted. Very complicated topic that is for sure. |
#48
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In more ways than one today maybe the loss of that sentiment about collecting is really to blame.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 07-03-2019 at 10:45 AM. |
#49
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I started collecting in 85 as a six year old kid and wasn't paying any attention to the older cards. Some years later I would see cards in the cases at shops and none were nice. I do think there are some cards out there that clearly survived in great condition but how many is clearly up for debate. |
#50
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 07-03-2019 at 10:53 AM. |
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