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#1
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PSA Response from President Steve Sloan
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards
Quote:
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#2
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sounds like psa/brent have the same lawyer?
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#3
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That's the best they can do?
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#4
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That's reassuring. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 04:23 PM. |
#5
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Quote:
"Well versed at combating fraud"... Har har Hardeeee har har my side is splittin. Your well versed in saying nothing. Ban Brent Mastro and sue him you chicken S***. That will be a start. But you're in bed together you'll give him a character reference probably to assist Brent Mastro the Grifter with his next scam. I'm sure PSA had nothing to do with it my a**. Last edited by Fuddjcal; 06-04-2019 at 04:28 PM. |
#6
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Well-versed in combating fraud. Clearly.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 04:24 PM. |
#7
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We will act against anyone who violates PSA’s Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading.
Is he referring to PWWC? |
#8
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So much for the good things I had heard about Mr. Sloan. Robo speak like his predecessor.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#9
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Gary I assume, who they apparently have allowed to submit for decades lol.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
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Hypothetical. So, if I pick up a Goudey Ruth which has been trimmed or recolored, and I submit it to receive an Authentic, am I violating TOS by knowingly submitting al altered card for authentication? And what are the repercussions? I’m not trying to cheat anyone. I know the card is altered. I want them to slab it and say that it’s real and altered so people will know what they are getting. Problem?
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#11
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More likely the same PR firm specializing in feel good BS robo speak that ignores the elephants in the room.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 04:32 PM. |
#12
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Aren't they one in the same?
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#13
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Not clear to me if Brent was submitting for him. It's irrelevant, but I can't make that assumption at this point.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#14
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Does anyone in this hobby have any integrity? I mean among the major players. Or are they all corrupted by money?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 04:33 PM. |
#15
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huh?
"As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity."
Seems like they are trying to pass the buck to the seller, as if the seller in all instances should provide the financial guarantee if the seller is known. So if the seller does not initiate the process for financial reimbursement, what happens then? This doesn't seem consistent with what they say on their website: https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee "PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA. If PSA, in fact, concludes that the card in question no longer merits the PSA grade assigned or fails PSA’s authenticity standards, PSA will either: Buy the card from the submitter at the current market value if the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards or, Refund the difference in value between the original PSA grade and the current PSA grade if the grade is lowered. In this case, the card will also be returned to the customer along with the refund for the difference in value. The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value." |
#16
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I thought there was proof that Moser & PWWC submissions to PSA were on the same numbers.
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#17
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As if I am going to go to someone I bought a card from 10 years ago and ask to return it. WTF.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#18
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I don't believe so, I don't think anyone can tell who submitted the cards.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#19
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Quote:
My reasoning was that if the purchase never happened, and PWCC was in on the fraud, PSA would have minimal or zero liability.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. Last edited by swarmee; 06-04-2019 at 04:42 PM. |
#20
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Can’t PSA tell who submitted the cards. I would think they should be able to, but don’t hold your breath. What’s good for the Registry is good for the hobby.
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FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#21
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.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#22
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Of course they know. They are as usual putting the burden back on the collector. WIWAG redux.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#23
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Didn't read all the comments posted, but I was wondering the same thing. .
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#24
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I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt and we all deserve second chances in life but I'm sorry that response is a little weak. How about taking responsibility for your part and telling us what you're going to do to fix things.
Last edited by Davidlisa; 06-04-2019 at 04:49 PM. |
#25
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This is where they lose trust. Things have been kept in private for way too long.
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#26
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Jesus the day I agree 100 percent with David, something must be wrong.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#27
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.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#28
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As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request.
PSA’s financial guarantee doesn’t protect the original submitter. If PWCC really is submitting most of these cards, it may put them in a pickle (and reduce the potential warranty exposure). First smart thing I’ve seen anyone do in this whole debacle. Last edited by jhs5120; 06-04-2019 at 05:10 PM. |
#29
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Well, it is lightning here in Houston. I better stay indoors.
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#30
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Quote:
Edit to add PSA removed SMR article on PWCC, didn't scrub them entirely. Last edited by MULLINS5; 06-04-2019 at 05:22 PM. |
#31
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It's surreal. A massive scandal showing potentially thousands of altered PSA cards is revealed, and the response is to reassure us PSA is well-versed at detecting fraud, I mean WTF is going on here? Who do they think they're talking to?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 05:17 PM. |
#32
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Without a list of cards coming from them it's useless drivel. They never provided one in WIWAG.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 05:20 PM. |
#33
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I think you hit the nail on the head John in terms of them pointing back to the seller for refunds. They probably feel they could make a good case that PWCC was in on it somehow.
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#34
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The way I see it is that PSA in on the hook for almost one million dollars worth of liability with their guaranty.
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#35
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Didn't you hear? The list is coming in the "near future"!
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#36
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The right thing would be for PSA to get those cards in their possession, but it would cost a small fortune.
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#37
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Brent is on video promising to reimburse buyers for fraudulent cards submitted through PWCC. Watch the 1 hour long video. He doesn't say which cards those are, so all of them should go back to PWCC. Maybe his lawyer will come out with a list of affected cards submitted by PWCC so that he won't get every single one back to his company.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#38
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#39
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Quote:
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#40
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He says he submitted cards for consignors, nonspecifically.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#41
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The smart thing to do by PSA is to put the blame on one rogue grader...even if he's not guilty. Offer him a nice severance package or something. When all this is over, PSA has to admit one of two things: (1) they had a grader on the take and they took care of the situation or (2) they're totally incompetent. Which is better from a business perspective?
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#42
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Might work for the public. Won't work for the Feds.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#43
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Sounds like he's pointing the finger away from PSA...talking only about the "actors" who submit. What about the "actors" who graded them? How does that get explained?
__________________
R0b G0u13t |
#44
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Under oath. They’re getting sued.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#45
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#46
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From Sloan's note : "PSA processes more than two million cards each year"
40,000 per week (based on a 50 week year) 8,000 per day (based on a 5 day week) 666 per hour (based on a 12 hour day, and my love of Satan) 11 per minute That means 5.4 seconds multiplied by the number of graders there are, per card. Doug "just saying" Goodman |
#47
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That might be his downfall.
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#48
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Last edited by JeremyW; 06-04-2019 at 06:03 PM. |
#49
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Back in the day, I was privileged to enter the "Vault" at GAI. I was there to educate the authenticator of cigarette packs per Steve Rochi's request. I was shown the process of grading cards. The first thing they always did was measure the card. Doesn't make any sense to do anything else after that if the card was trimmed because the card would be graded authentic. They then looked for altering. Same thing, doesn't make any sense to do anything else after that if the card was altered because the card would be graded authentic.. Then they look at the centering, corners. etc. And further evaluated the card for printer defects, creases, etc.
So how is it that PSA could skip the first part of the process for all those trimmed cards unless it was deliberate? I know that GAI was doing the same, and that their opinion on cards today are worthless. But still they had a procedure.
__________________
Successful B/S/T with - Powell, Mrios, mrvster, richieb315, jlehma13, Ed_Hutchinson, Bigshot69, Baseballcrazy62, SMPEP, Jeff Garrison, Jeff Dunn, Bigfish & others Last edited by rdwyer; 06-04-2019 at 06:23 PM. |
#50
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Is PWCC considered the seller or the auctioneer?
__________________
Contact me if you have any Dave Kingman cards / memorabilia for sale. |
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