New allegations on BO

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

But why shouldn't people be allowed to crack out and resubmit for a chance at a higher grade? It's the altering between the crack out and resubmission that the problem, but not the folks that are just trying for a half grade bump and not altering the card any.

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

Much better success rate presumably.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much better success rate presumably.

I guess you are right. Like Andy, I am not a submitter, and the few times I asked for a bump (with decent success), I submitted in the flip. I would be too nervous to crack.

Also, PEOPLE, just stop responding to that idiot’s D-Bag post. You are giving it legs it doesn’t deserve. “And that about all I have to say about that” Forrest Gump

How about a card - I think this is misgraded; there is no way this is altered. SGC blew it! the tape holding the card together was most definitely put on in the Croft’s factory, in 1909 and sold like this.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

How about a card - I think this is misgraded; there is no way this is altered. SGC blew it! the tape holding the card together was most definitely put on in the Croft’s factory, in 1909 and sold like this.

SGC's "A" does not definitely mean the card was altered. It could have been requested only to be autheticated when it was submitted, or the other general reason for an A if not altered is it's considered worse than poor. I agree with you that the assumption most people are going to have is that it's altered - but based on my understanding of the way SGC does things - that is not necessarily the case.

[Leon]

Cut and pasted from the SGC website. Their website could be wrong but it seems to contradict what you said? This is all of the verbiage for their ALT grade.

SGC REJECTION CODES
A
Altered (ALT)

Originally Posted by jchcollins

SGC's "A" does not definitely mean the card was altered. It could have been requested only to be autheticated when it was submitted, or the other general reason for an A if not altered is it's considered worse than poor. I agree with you that the assumption most people are going to have is that it's altered - but based on my understanding of the way SGC does things - that is not necessarily the case.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Leon

Cut and pasted from the SGC website. Their website could be wrong but it seems to contradict what you said? This is all of the verbiage for their ALT grade.

SGC REJECTION CODES
A
Altered (ALT)

Yes, sorry if I'm being unclear. If a card is altered, it WILL get the "A" from SGC. But the A stands for Authentic, not "altered" per se, and they do not distinguish on the flip if the card is just "authentic" or "authetic altered" the way that PSA does. So their rejection codes say "A" but that is in the case something you submit is altered, and you don't check the box to "slab if authentic". If you don't, the card gets sent back to you unslabbed. If you do check that box, it gets slabbed "A" only.

The reason I make the distinction is that some people get cards slabbed only to verify authenticity, and don't care about the grade. This is probably rare, but it happens. When filling out the submission form, you can check "A Only" in another area, and the card just gets slabbed but not graded. I did this recently with a card I knew they would not give a number grade to.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume still that an SGC A is "altered", most of them anyway, but was just making the point that's not necessarily going to be true all of the time. At least they are consistent in their methodology. PSA will give some cards "Authentic" only, some cards "Authentic Altered", and in the past I've seen "Authentic - Trimmed" or perhaps most egregiously - "Athentic - Restored" in cases where the card has a pedigree, is ridiculously expensive, or has considerable hobby press speculation around it.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Yes, sorry if I'm being unclear. If a card is altered, it WILL get the "A" from SGC. But the A stands for Authentic, not "altered" per se, and they do not distinguish on the flip if the card is just "authentic" or "authetic altered" the way that PSA does. So their rejection codes say "A" but that is in the case something you submit is altered, and you don't check the box to "slab if authentic". If you don't, the card gets sent back to you unslabbed. If you do check that box, it gets slabbed "A" only.

The reason I make the distinction is that some people get cards slabbed only to verify authenticity, and don't care about the grade. This is probably rare, but it happens. When filling out the submission form, you can check "A Only" in another area, and the card just gets slabbed but not graded. I did this recently with a card I knew they would not give a number grade to.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume still that an SGC A is "altered", most of them anyway, but was just making the point that's not necessarily going to be true all of the time. At least they are consistent in their methodology. PSA will give some cards "Authentic" only, some cards "Authentic Altered", and in the past I've seen "Authentic - Trimmed" or perhaps most egregiously - "Athentic - Restored" in cases where the card has a pedigree, is ridiculously expensive, or has considerable hobby press speculation around it.

This is what I have done on the VERY rare instances where I submitted a card. I bought a raw '58 Mantle that seemed too nice for the price and I requested only the Authorized 'grade', which it got. I only wanted to know it was a legit card. When it came back it came out of the slab and into the set binder.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

Cut and pasted from the SGC website. Their website could be wrong but it seems to contradict what you said? This is all of the verbiage for their ALT grade.

SGC REJECTION CODES
A
Altered (ALT)

In actual practice, SGC uses A for any card they won't give a number grade even if it isn't altered. It's possible to choose A or just getting a card back unslabbed. When it isn't slabbed, you actually get an explanation.

This one has very rough factory cuts top and bottom. I was a bit miffed when it came back, but after some reflection, I can see why they wouldn't slab it. To most people any oddity seems like alterations. (And with the current stuff going on, that isn't likely to change)



Out of the few cards I've had rejected I got
Miscut top and bottom -shown above
Min size - a puzzler, as it's less short than another card in the same group was narrow (a regular card that was very nearly AB narrow.
Trimmed - Yep, actually trimmed on all four borders. picked it in a rush to get one last good looking card to make 10 for a special. Totally blew that one.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by steve B

When it isn't slabbed, you actually get an explanation.

LOL, I will have to look but could swear that is the same handwriting on the rejection slip I originally had for my Mantle. It was some time ago...

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

First, I have to admit, I've never submitted a card for grading so I don't know why someone would crack and resubmit but I thought that's what people do. I just didn't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that any more.

[Johnny630]

Solution My Idea VS Spinning Wheels complaining and allowing to go on
I know it sucks but it’s the crooks mentioned above fault along with their ineptitude of not catching when grading cards....
if that could be fixed without this we wouldn’t even be having this talk ....they obviously can’t get it done over there

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

....they obviously can’t get it done over there

That I agree with for sure.

[Johnny630]

I want PSA to be a great company to be around to be viable and to be the best. I have a Lotta big cards in their holders. I do not believe they are in on this not one bit, they are just very inept at catching this right now when grading cards. I want them to get better and to succeed I believe a true solution is my solution that I mentioned above. I don’t want this to happen but I think right now it’s needed. They are trying their best and I do not believe they are part of the fraud that is going on....It’s not smart for their business I would never expect that from them. They have a Lotta good people over there and business along with their shareholders his first

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I want PSA to be a great company to be around to be viable and to be the best. I have a Lotta big cards in their holders. I do not believe they are in on this not one bit, they are just very inept at catching this right now when grading cards. I want them to get better and to succeed I believe a true solution is my solution that I mentioned above. I don’t want this to happen but I think right now it’s needed. They are trying their best and I do not believe they are part of the fraud that is going on....It’s not smart for their business I would never expect that from them. They have a Lotta good people over there and business along with their shareholders his first

Pretty typical response from someone deeply invested in the "Emperors New Clothes" (courtesy of PSA).